Air Battle over Kashmir : MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16

Yeah..pics of all 4 missiles with serial numbers are available..but I rather not take away the last straw you are holding on to for sustaining your superiority complex... Whatever makes you sleep better 😅😅😅
Please link those missiles to Mig21 and we will be happy to question our forces and government for lying to us.

Till then please do your duty as a true slave and spread what ISPR feed you and live in your delusional lala land.

And we don't have any superiority complex, some fools who attacked us 4 times does. Maybe because of the whacking you got you feel inferior and others automatically become superior, that's not our fault.
 
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Somebody cross check the last pic with available satellite pics of the place where the balakote strikes took place.

If geological features matches , then it will be interesting notwithstanding the fact that it is labelled cheekily as representational image
It is Balakot, saw this few days ago, paused, replayed it, was about to post it but then didn't.

It could be google earth image not real cam footage of any jet.

EDIT: Yes it's not actual footage and it's even mentioned in top left corner.
 
Next; IAF needs to bring back Mig21Bisons from the Forward bases and deploy Mig29UPGs/MKI/M2K's out there. Knowingly fielding an aircraft that you know will be outgunned and relying just on superior training is not a strategy for success. Finally BDA's should no longer be a log sheet by pilots but actual FLIR footage.

MIssed this. Regret that.

The only role that Mig 21 can perform with any degree of reliabiliy in current environment is air interceptor role. they are way too obsolete for any other air operations, and they do not have necessary equipment or survivability to take on CAS role. Additionally. MKI & Mig 29 are poor interceptors due to their longer start up sequence. Only LCA and M2K can take on interceptor role in the current IAF fleet. As such, Mg 21 must either be deployed as interceptors right at the forward bases or be retired outright, with LCA taking over the interceptor role.

I'd here want to explore the concept of composite squadrons with multiple type of integral aircraft, especially to beef up Mig 21 squadrons. 3 MKI's in a Mig 21 squadron will drastically improve the combat potential of any strike/intercept operation conducted by the mig21s. The MKIs could deter the enemy from trying to sneak a kill against the obsolete Migs, or play the role of Mini Awacs guiding them, thereby improving battle management capabilities at a much more integral level than possible through AWACS. It also can with long range AAMs deny space to enemy ELINT & EW aircraft thereby covering the Migs.

IAF has traditionally relied on the hunter's imagery equipment and pilot log for BDA in a hunter killer team, followed up by ground based PI team assessment of target imagery. So you could say FLIR has been an important part of BDA for well over 20 years now. However, you are right that we need to have live strike imagery for any and all operations.
 
MIssed this. Regret that.

The only role that Mig 21 can perform with any degree of reliabiliy in current environment is air interceptor role. they are way too obsolete for any other air operations, and they do not have necessary equipment or survivability to take on CAS role. Additionally. MKI & Mig 29 are poor interceptors due to their longer start up sequence. Only LCA and M2K can take on interceptor role in the current IAF fleet. As such, Mg 21 must either be deployed as interceptors right at the forward bases or be retired outright, with LCA taking over the interceptor role.

I'd here want to explore the concept of composite squadrons with multiple type of integral aircraft, especially to beef up Mig 21 squadrons. 3 MKI's in a Mig 21 squadron will drastically improve the combat potential of any strike/intercept operation conducted by the mig21s. The MKIs could deter the enemy from trying to sneak a kill against the obsolete Migs, or play the role of Mini Awacs guiding them, thereby improving battle management capabilities at a much more integral level than possible through AWACS. It also can with long range AAMs deny space to enemy ELINT & EW aircraft thereby covering the Migs.

IAF has traditionally relied on the hunter's imagery equipment and pilot log for BDA in a hunter killer team, followed up by ground based PI team assessment of target imagery. So you could say FLIR has been an important part of BDA for well over 20 years now. However, you are right that we need to have live strike imagery for any and all operations.

The last one year has been full of CAPs and Radar locks -- Show of strength post Balakot

I would believe that IAF must have worked
Out the Right combination and Sequencing of Assets to be used , both in
No war - No peace situation and when
The Balloon GOES UP the Next time

BDA is best left to satellites
 
Off-topic

Can you please guide me to thread during OBL abbottabad raid on PDF? I participated in that live thread having over 100 posts but couldn't find again.

Is the thread still there or abandoned like doosra banda, 28k proud Pakistanis in China or deleted like hamdoor comission report?
And the moderator there got the Hila le Imtiaz for sanitizing / deleting the thread.
 
Yup...
Very authentic..
In fact so authentic that they are showing day time attack on Balakot when the attack happened at night 😅😅


The only and one and onlyyyy thing I like about Pakistan is you are doers not talkers. Irrespective of the result whether you win or lose. Our people to be honest the Hindus we talk a lot and do less.

chota sa israel hai , it has its Yahood lobby, and has created havoc for 57 Islamic countries. Pakistan has created havoc for both US in Afghanistan and 1 billion people on east.

And here we are Indians, na to hum se nepal sambhalta hai na bangladesh na apna Kashmir na Srilnka. BC Delhi mein dangey kara ke aur baith gaye hai. Maar khaney ke baad bhi samajh na avey!

Although our potential is very high but you know it.
 
The only and one and onlyyyy thing I like about Pakistan is you are doers not talkers. Irrespective of the result whether you win or lose. Our people to be honest the Hindus we talk a lot and do less.

chota sa israel hai , it has its Yahood lobby, and has created havoc for 57 Islamic countries. Pakistan has created havoc for both US in Afghanistan and 1 billion people on east.

And here we are Indians, na to hum se nepal sambhalta hai na bangladesh na apna Kashmir na Srilnka. BC Delhi mein dangey kara ke aur baith gaye hai. Maar khaney ke baad bhi samajh na avey!

Although our potential is very high but you know it.
All I can say is don't get demoralised and have faith .

Otherwise we won't have an enemy to fight with.....and that will be very boring 😅😅
 
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This is not google earth imagery

View attachment 14481

This is a real FLIR imagery and definitely not a CGI as far as I can tell.

Looks like IAF sent a cheeky message to the concerned party under the garb of representational footage.It will fool the public but not those who are concerned / aimed at.

@Falcon
@vstol Jockey


It's from the the Mirage 2000 EO-Optics imagery. (FLIR)
 
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I'd here want to explore the concept of composite squadrons with multiple type of integral aircraft, especially to beef up Mig 21 squadrons. 3 MKI's in a Mig 21 squadron will drastically improve the combat potential of any strike/intercept operation conducted by the mig21s.

This is not possible in any realistic sense, at any point in time, unless we have First World level revenue to fund such a scheme, but that would be a significant waste of finances.

There are a few operational arguments. When Bisons became operational, there were barely any MKIs around. And all the upcoming MKIs were needed to build up new capabilities, and this process is still ongoing. Furthermore, we still need more MKIs for Chabua, a full squadron, and now Srinagar, either a detachment or half a squadron, there's also A&N Islands. So none of the MKIs can be freed up to act as a force multiplier to the Mig-21s. You can also expect the Migs to be finished with an interception operation by the time an MKI takes to the skies.

A financial argument is, we have 6 squadrons of Migs left, and if each of them need 3 MKIs each, then we are talking about 18 jets + reserves. That is literally an entire squadron, and if you have a full squadron of jets, you'd much rather put them to use as a single squadron capable of performing more complex missions, than act as a nanny for 6 Mig squadrons. The cost of assorted MKI support infrastructure and personnel for 1 base would be much cheaper than having the same in 6 bases for only 3 MKIs each.

But a more technical argument is, due to the massive time gap between the two jets, assuming the Migs had another 15 years of life left, a much better option would be to upgrade the Mig-21 with an AESA radar that matches or outmatches the MKI's Bars radar. A small AESA radar in 2020 will easily outmatch a PESA designed in the 80s and put into production in the late 90s. So a 2020 Mig-21 with an AESA wouldn't need the help of an MKI. Case in point, we are now looking at the possibility of equipping Jaguars with the Astra/Derby BVR missiles mated to their new AESA radars, which will give Jaguar squadrons some freedom to conduct soime types of missions in some scenarios on their own. The LCA's radar should comfortably outmatch the current Bars radar, hence wouldn't need the support of MKIs.

The same arguments would more or less apply for a future force of potential LCAs and PAK FA/AMCAs. The initial numbers of PAK FA/AMCA would be too small to act as nannies and will instead be used to build new capabilities. All future inductions will be used to spread the advanced capability around our geography, which could take 10-15 years. Once we get enough numbers by 2040, the LCA will be due to get upgrades with new technologies of the time, with roughly equal detection capabilities as the PAK FA/AMCA, making any composite mix moot. And the cycle repeats.

Let's face it, the simplest argument would be to make even our lowest grade aircraft as advanced as possible, so that it can at least fulfill its primary task without problems. And right now, an LCA with a very advanced AESA radar and the I Derby ER/Meteor (or a similar class of indigenous missiles) will fulfill our interception needs for the next 15-20 years.
 
How the R 73 Seeker
Automatically locks on to the target
And IR guided missile R 73 is a huge threat till 30 KM , the Enemy RWR did not
Know that a missile is approaching

Does their F-16s got Missile Early warning systems? (new blk 52 and the upgraded one)

I think RWR won't pick IR missiles.
 
Perhaps MAWS is used for IR missile Warning

@randomradio Sir
How do you know an R 73 is approaching

BVR AAM is radar guided so RWR is necessary

No idea about PAF F 16s having MAWS Or
Not

Electronically, you need MAWS, which older gen aircraft typically do not carry. But the F-16 does. Dunno if the F-16 that was shot down had one or not.

But the main method to detect WVR missiles is using your good old eyeball Mk1. You can either see the missile fired at you from some angles, or people on your team will tell you if you have a missile on your tail, if they spot one.

Bro, you don't have to call me sir.
 
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Electronically, you need MAWS, which older gen aircraft typically do not carry. But the F-16 does. Dunno if the F-16 that was shot down had one or not.

But the main method to detect WVR missiles is using your good old eyeball Mk1. You can either see the missile fired at you from some angles, or people on your team will tell you if you have a missile on your tail, if they spot one.

Bro, you don't have to call me sir.
Passive MAWR and active MAWR like in Typhoon can detect everykind of missile approach.
 
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