Air Battle over Kashmir : MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16

Guynextdoor

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You do realize that the succeeding post of 'not being able to hear' is bullshit? How then did his wingman not cross and only he? Also, I do hope you realize that he is a son of an Air Force 3 Star officer and this was highly publicized and no one, not the IAF nor the GoI could chide him for crossing over?
and if he didn't cross over we would have spoken till the end of time how he didn't show initiative when a great victory was within his grasp. I don't think it makes sense to discuss this, man put life and limb knowing that he might die to serve his country. That deserves commendation.
 
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You nailed it.

My information as stated and made public by our PM is same. Both pilots are dead. One died same day after being lynched by the mob and other died in the hospital after a few days. The R-73 had hit the F-16 in frontal section and both pilots had suffered shrapnel injuries.
question is, who is Gp Cpt Khan and why is he being rewarded at the same level as siddiqui? and where/who is the copilot of siddiqui
 
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and if he didn't cross over we would have spoken till the end of time how he didn't show initiative when a great victory was within his grasp. I don't think it makes sense to discuss this, man put life and limb knowing that he might die to serve his country. That deserves commendation.
Imagine what would have happened if he did not cross over and did not fire missiles at F-16.

He would still be a hero with a visual from his HUD showing F-16s *censored* is locked by a vintage Mig 21.
 
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Modi openly stated that we brought down an F-16 and killed two pilots. Can someone post that interview clip here.
sir i had watched that interview. it was probably the very first interview he gave after balakot .he clearly mentioned "we shot down their f16,some people in the country were trying to defeat the narrative by creating pressure upon the govt . for abhinandan release amidst ongoing operation"
 

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and if he didn't cross over we would have spoken till the end of time how he didn't show initiative when a great victory was within his grasp. I don't think it makes sense to discuss this, man put life and limb knowing that he might die to serve his country. That deserves commendation.

None would have said a word had he not crossed over. You have no idea how the forces work, do you? :)

The larger game plan was put on because of that fateful crossing. Anyways, water under the bridge.
 

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So sir just because he is son of AF 3 star officer , he cant be questioned???
No, the fact is that since he is the son of a 3 star IAF officer, it helps in making a narrative. Heroes are created. GoI could not take an action for what amounted to a violation of operational directives to IAF due to the public glare on the event, and the fact that he is IAF's 'own' (any kid who joins forces, irrespective of the rank of his/her parent, is looked after as 'own') ensured that any iota of questioning was nipped in the bud. Convergence of interests of both parties ensured that he won't be sacked for breaking the RoE in existence on that day.
 
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You do realize that the succeeding post of 'not being able to hear' is bullshit? How then did his wingman not cross and only he? Also, I do hope you realize that he is a son of an Air Force 3 Star officer and this was highly publicized and no one, not the IAF nor the GoI could chide him for crossing over?
Personally, I don't think its right to punish an fighter pilot for having a killer instinct. Maybe that was one of the reasons why no action was taken against him.

No, the fact is that since he is the son of a 3 star IAF officer, it helps in making a narrative. Heroes are created. GoI could not take an action for what amounted to a violation of operational directives to IAF due to the public glare on the event, and the fact that he is IAF's 'own' (any kid who joins forces, irrespective of the rank of his/her parent, is looked after as 'own') ensured that any iota of questioning was nipped in the bud. Convergence of interests of both parties ensured that he won't be sacked for breaking the RoE in existence on that day.

Don't know how it was going to proceed then. Feels like the entire plan is proceeding better than expected after the abrogation of Article 370.
Not to mention, I think it was better for the IAF, as PAF gave away its extra bit of advantage it had with the AIM-120. Now I'm pretty sure we already have our tactics modified to deal with these threats.
 
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None would have said a word had he not crossed over. You have no idea how the forces work, do you? :)

The larger game plan was put on because of that fateful crossing. Anyways, water under the bridge.
I had previously remarked that Pakistanis should hang Abhinandan's photo next to Jinnah. Jinnah might have made Pakistan but Abhinandan had a massive role in preserving it.
 

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Personally, I don't think its right to punish an fighter pilot for having a killer instinct. Maybe that was one of the reasons why no action was taken against him.
Everyone has a killer instinct. Forces fine tune and hone it. Now imagine the chaos if that was not trained to be kept in check, to be used as an effective weapon at an opportune time. There is a difference between a homicidal killer and a soldier. The latter is taught to control the primal instincts of survival. You, at times, necessarily put yourself in harms way, to achieve the greater objective.

Irrational rationality in actions is common in forces. Indeed, the need of the day.

Don't know how it was going to proceed then. Feels like the entire plan is proceeding better than expected after the abrogation of Article 370.
Please recollect, everyone said war, and I refused to agree, here, earlier in Older Forum and earlier in PDF. Since day 1. Also, in the other place, @nair and I had discussed in 2016 how US-Indian interests will converge over Baluchistan with India in Baluchistan and US in Baluchistan-Sistan area of Iran and how pressure would simultaneously be built up and China will sell Pakistan down the river to protect its investments in CPEC and as we move to consolidate Gilgit-Baltistan, it shall seek to cut its loses. And today, read the positive signals on boundary issue from China. The writing is there on the wall, but majority merely see Baba's tweets and see the smaller picture. Please recollect that prior to abrogation of Article 370, I have said that this is not about J&K, but about PoJ&K. Wait and watch. It shall take time.


Not to mention, I think it was better for the IAF, as PAF gave away its extra bit of advantage it had with the AIM-120. Now I'm pretty sure we already have our tactics modified to deal with these threats.
It was always known. Nothing new was discovered. Abhinandan crossed, else he would have been safe too. He left his wingman behind .... remember that. Never done.
 

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Put on, or put off?
*off :(

Was going to write 'on hold' ... messed up :)

I had previously remarked that Pakistanis should hang Abhinandan's photo next to Jinnah. Jinnah might have made Pakistan but Abhinandan had a massive role in preserving it.
No, just giving a reprieve. Or .. to be a sadist ... last breath of air before suffocating .... :D
 

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Keelor Brothers shot down one sabre each in 1965. They were hailed as heroes. But many more guys shot down Sabres and also F-104 starfighters after that. Can anyone recall any such name? They shot down the Sabres when they were not even in a full fledged war and PAF guys were not expecting them. Other pilots shot the PAF aircraft in actual combat during a dogfight. Keelor brothers never did any air combat, they got vectored in and had a free shot at the targets. It was like a duck shoot. They are heroes but those who actually did combat and then shot down the enemy are not even known.
Adm Arun Prakash (Retd) got a medal in 1971. he never enegaged anyone in air combat but destroyed aircraft on ground and one of them was the one owned by the famous american ACE. Others did more damage but did not get the medals. I have served in 20sqn IAF and read the true war history. Infact I was the one in-charge of that book in 1991-1992.
 

vstol Jockey

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Personally, I don't think its right to punish an fighter pilot for having a killer instinct. Maybe that was one of the reasons why no action was taken against him.
Do you know what it takes to be a fighter pilot? We all operate within our limits but those who touch those limits routinely and do not cross them are fighter pilots. Formation integrity and following the rules strictly are our hallmark. The leader of a formation has full responsibility of his formation members. he is supposed to sacrifice himself rather than put his formation under stress or in harms way. 27th feb all this was broken. A man who had a lock on pressed on with attack and ended up making a fool of himself and the nation, ruining the complete battle plan due to the political pressure put on by Congress. The same congress who never asked for those 54 Indian POWs who were retained by Pakistan as a perpetual pain for us. Warriors fight and die. It is their job. Nations must not cry for a fallen especially if he was the bad straw.
Imagine if Modi had decided to go thru with attack on Karachi on 27th? What would have happened to Abhi? he would have still been a POW and returned maybe after few weeks/months. One idiot and we lost the plot and let us all hail him as hero now.