ADA MCA medium weight class (LCA Mk II)

Ashwin

Agent_47
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You are now making an irrelevant post.

I never said the design is not ready. I said there is a more capable design than the one they released earlier.

That 2015 article was obsolete in 2014 itself.
How is it irrelevant? All your examples are from the primary design stage. Turkey example is hilarious. It's has not even entered the primary design stage.

Its not an article but PR from MoD.

Is this irrelevant too?

Screenshot (39).png


From ADA annual report.
 
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randomradio

Senior Member
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How is it irrelevant? All your examples are from the primary design stage. Turkey example is hilarious. It's has not even entered the primary design stage.

Its not an article but PR from MoD.

Is this irrelevant too?

View attachment 2471

From ADA annual report.

You don't know how aircraft development works. Even Vstol's design has seen two different aircraft, I bet more. He even had a 3T aircraft. And his final aircraft has also seen design changes. If one guy could do that, what do you think an entire organization can do?

Your snippets have no relevance to what I'm talking about.

Turkey's and Korea's designs are PDP level designs. They have even wind tunnel tested the models.


Ji9hbFk.jpg


C_aV8-_XoAAdAR3.jpg


There are in fact 6 TFX designs.

Another TFX design in Britain.
hq720.jpg


Just because a report says "detailed design" doesn't mean you know exactly what's happening. Within programs too, designs go back and forth many times. They keep testing and retesting the same designs over and over again.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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I wonder why everyone seems to have a bone to pick with @randomradio . Is being an optimist a crime ? @Bali78

I am not optimistic at all, I am completely realistic.

I pointed out we will have 3 MMRCA programs in 2015, after MMRCA was cancelled, apart from the LCA program, and no one believed me then.

TE MII and SE MII, apart from Rafale GTG.

Now we have--
36+36 Rafale GTG
TE MII
201 MCA

All 3 are MMRCAs.

Before 2015, I didn't have much hopes for our indigenous programs. But after 2015, things have changed a lot. By bringing private players in, Modi and Parrikar have changed the game completely. A lot of things have changed, particularly the attitude towards indigenous programs themselves. The perform or perish directive has really struck home.

When it comes to LCA, HAL's completely embarrassed ADA with the Mk1A. I suppose their experience with Sukhoi in designing the FGFA has helped them a lot.
 
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Ashwin

Agent_47
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You don't know how aircraft development works. Even Vstol's design has seen two different aircraft, I bet more. He even had a 3T aircraft. And his final aircraft has also seen design changes. If one guy could do that, what do you think an entire organization can do?
yeah, bring in fiction as an example.

Your snippets have no relevance to what I'm talking about.
It is relevant because its shows timeline and saying ADA couldn't even decide upon basics of the design after 8 years is not believable.

Another TFX design in Britain.
Don't post irrelevant stuff. Its BAE Systems Replica. Very old project.

Turkey just decided upon the number of engines just last year. So, behind AMCA. Nowhere near Mk2.

Something relevant:
main-qimg-5bac520ab39a68426107445e38763706


Just because a report says "detailed design" doesn't mean you know exactly what's happening.
Whatever they call it next step is prototype fabrication which a year away. Questioning synonym difference is not an effective argument tactic.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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yeah, bring in fiction as an example.


It is relevant because its shows timeline and saying ADA couldn't even decide upon basics of the design after 8 years is not believable.


Don't post irrelevant stuff. Its BAE Systems Replica. Very old project.

Turkey just decided upon the number of engines just last year. So, behind AMCA. Nowhere near Mk2.

Something relevant:
main-qimg-5bac520ab39a68426107445e38763706



Whatever they call it next step is prototype fabrication which a year away. Questioning synonym difference is not an effective argument tactic.

Now you're comparing TFX with AMCA?

Okay, every single post you are losing the relevance of the topic.
 

Pundrick

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
355
368
So we didn't had any MK2 related sticky thread till this one ? Why not stick with the older one ?

This thread should have a tagline : "Fighter wahi, bakch0di nayi".
 

Pundrick

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
355
368
hahahahah:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
i was laughing like a maniac after reading this in a coffee shop:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
Everybody knows the faith of such threads.

They'll share those 2 very famous wind tunnel concept with canard and will designate it as MCA i.e. Nayi Bakch0di.

And we'll always have comments from Sharmaji regarding it's extra-terrestrial specifications and Kaveri doing super cruise at 2 mach and blah blah.
 

BadBoi

Member
Mar 17, 2018
41
6
googlegoogle
You don't know how aircraft development works. Even Vstol's design has seen two different aircraft, I bet more. He even had a 3T aircraft. And his final aircraft has also seen design changes. If one guy could do that, what do you think an entire organization can do?.

Any proof that what he is saying is true?

I think anybody with even a little common sense can figure out that its a bluff to win online popularity.
 

vstol Jockey

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Dec 1, 2017
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@randomradio, The most recent unofficial discussions with some top guys hinted that they will consider a single engine aircraft only if it is in the 20 ton category. Other than F-16 there is no such aircraft and IAF is not interested in that aircraft. Such a SE will surely take away future orders from LCA and new fighter. So MSA now goes to 22 tons with one meter increase in length resulting in exactly the same fuselage length as that of Typhoon but with IHI XF9-1 or I-30 engine of Pak-Fa. Both engines have 11:1 TWR and a fan diameter of just one meter. The wing area also grows to 42.5sqm and the length overall grows to 15.25m. Empty weight of 8.75 tons and payload of 8.25 tons with 5 tons internal fuel.
 

smestarz

Well-Known member
Nov 30, 2017
541
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Actung Panzers
Now any fighter plane in the market is marketed as MRCA, its not difficult to incorporate Targeting pods to make an air superiority fighter plane to have strike capability

BTW 36 more Rafales is not realistic, NaMo does understand that the French shortchanged him in Rafale deal

I am not optimistic at all, I am completely realistic.

I pointed out we will have 3 MMRCA programs in 2015, after MMRCA was cancelled, apart from the LCA program, and no one believed me then.

TE MII and SE MII, apart from Rafale GTG.

Now we have--
36+36 Rafale GTG
TE MII
201 MCA

All 3 are MMRCAs.

Before 2015, I didn't have much hopes for our indigenous programs. But after 2015, things have changed a lot. By bringing private players in, Modi and Parrikar have changed the game completely. A lot of things have changed, particularly the attitude towards indigenous programs themselves. The perform or perish directive has really struck home.

When it comes to LCA, HAL's completely embarrassed ADA with the Mk1A. I suppose their experience with Sukhoi in designing the FGFA has helped them a lot.
 

BadBoi

Member
Mar 17, 2018
41
6
googlegoogle
Plenty. He's showed off his designs already.

Here's one:

dfh84n.png


Well any one with good artistic skills can draw up a picture like that.

Is there any proof that things are actually happening in this front? Any news articles/announcements/anything else ?? Also, do you really think that just one person with no experience in successfully producing even a turboprop plane can design a 5th generation aircraft all by himself? No use of super computers, no testing of models etc? It took the whole ADA agency, which is funded in crores by the government, many years just to design the LCA MK1. How can just one person with no funding or experience design a 5th Generation jet? C'mon man.. where is the basic common sense?

Being optimistic is good but overoptimism is harmful. Same with blindly trusting someone.

Also, regarding the +36 Rafales, has it been even announced? As far as I know, at max 18 more may be added. If Rafale wins the MMRCA 2, then the story will be different. You are talking as if it is done and dusted deal. Nothing is done and dusted until it has happened. There were so many announcements about FGFA like prototypes flying in india before 2020 and then after 2020 and now it has been canceled. Hence there is no certainty.
 
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randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
14,957
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India
@randomradio, The most recent unofficial discussions with some top guys hinted that they will consider a single engine aircraft only if it is in the 20 ton category. Other than F-16 there is no such aircraft and IAF is not interested in that aircraft. Such a SE will surely take away future orders from LCA and new fighter. So MSA now goes to 22 tons with one meter increase in length resulting in exactly the same fuselage length as that of Typhoon but with IHI XF9-1 or I-30 engine of Pak-Fa. Both engines have 11:1 TWR and a fan diameter of just one meter. The wing area also grows to 42.5sqm and the length overall grows to 15.25m. Empty weight of 8.75 tons and payload of 8.25 tons with 5 tons internal fuel.

Those are pretty awesome specs.

Why aren't you pursuing the LSA? The British will throw their engine at you pretty quickly and it seems to be a low risk option.
 

vstol Jockey

Professional
Dec 1, 2017
6,153
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New Delhi
Those are pretty awesome specs.

Why aren't you pursuing the LSA? The British will throw their engine at you pretty quickly and it seems to be a low risk option.
LSA became MSA long back when its MTOW went upto 16.75 tons. But any further growth was not possible for lack of a suitable engine and EJ260 wud have been the end of the line. I decided to change the approach and opted to have an engine which has more thrust than is needed and also add growth potential to the design. The 22 ton design is fit for 24 tons without the need to change either the airframe of the intakes or the engine. The proposed engines have that kind of thrust rating. The thrust of each of these engines is same as the combined thrust of two EJ-200s. I plan to use a derated dry thrust of 100Kn and derated afterburner thrust of 160Kn from these engines which will significantly enhance the hot section life of the engine and provide the much needed single engine safety margin.
 
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randomradio

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Well any one with good artistic skills can draw up a picture like that.

Is there any proof that things are actually happening in this front? Any news articles/announcements/anything else ?? Also, do you really think that just one person with no experience in successfully producing even a turboprop plane can design a 5th generation aircraft just like that? No use of super computers, no testing of models etc?

Being optimistic is good but overoptimism is harmful. Same with blindly trusting someone.

I know him personally, kinda.

Also, regarding the +36 Rafales, has it been even announced? As far as I know, at max 16 more may be added. You are talking as if it is done and dusted deal. Nothing is done and dusted until it has happened. There were so many announcements about FGFA like prototypes flying in india before 2020 and then after 2020 and now it has been canceled. Hence there is no certainty.

You can't compare Rafale and FGFA. Rafale is a signed deal, so the IAF can force the govt to order another batch very quickly, about 3/4ths of the bureaucratic procedures disappear because of that, but the aircraft has to be the same version.

FGFA, now is not the right time to pursue it. I had always believed that the IAF should just buy 3 squadrons of PAK FA to replace the Mig-29s and then pursue a highly modernized version of the FGFA at a later date, if necessary. With each passing year, the current program has only been pushed back. It's already 2028 before we can absorb the first FGFA.

Our first priority is to arrest squadron growth. If we get our numbers up to what we need, even technology won't stop us if we generate the kind of sortie rates we did with the recent exercise. The enemy aircraft will be destroyed on the ground instead.
 
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BadBoi

Member
Mar 17, 2018
41
6
googlegoogle
I know him personally, kinda.



You can't compare Rafale and FGFA. Rafale is a signed deal, so the IAF can force the govt to order another batch very quickly, about 3/4ths of the bureaucratic procedures disappear because of that, but the aircraft has to be the same version.

FGFA, now is not the right time to pursue it. I had always believed that the IAF should just buy 3 squadrons of PAK FA to replace the Mig-29s and then pursue a highly modernized version of the FGFA at a later date, if necessary. With each passing year, the current program has only been pushed back. It's already 2028 before we can absorb the first FGFA.

Our first priority is to arrest squadron growth. If we get our numbers up to what we need, even technology won't stop us if we generate the kind of sortie rates we did with the recent exercise. The enemy aircraft will be destroyed on the ground instead.

Alright..

I'll agree to disagree in regards to vstol and his design.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
14,957
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India
Alright..

I'll agree to disagree in regards to vstol and his design.

Even he tells the same thing. It's a concept aircraft. Until there's no go-ahead, it's going nowhere.

Anyway, as far as Rafale is concerned, there's no options of 18. The next order will be for 36 more or the tender.