ADA AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

[randomradio]

LSP --> IOC --> FOC.

LSP production will begin in 2029. While LCA's LSPs were turned into prototypes, AMCA's LSPs will be handed over to the IAF for operational testing. The final LSP, the 8th one, will become the standard for IOC. 8 LSPs are half a squadron strong and are enough for the IAF to test the airframes out. The program can even end with 3-4 LSPs if necessary.

So IAF will receive their LSPs in 2031 and 2032, by which time IOC will be achieved and then comes the SP stage. Over the next 4-5 years, they will deliver all 20 IOC jets at 2-8 per year. Then come the last 20 FOC at 4-8 per year, so that's 2038.

From 2040 hopefully, we will be ready to take deliveries of the definitive model. The IOC to FOC transition will be slow, but FOC to definitive model will be fast.

We are in the make or break phase today. LCA's TDs were good, but the prototypes (semi) failed, so the LSPs were turned into prototypes instead. Typically, the prototypes carry avionics, but in LCA's case it had to be done on LSP-3 and 4. LSP-2 came with the definitive engine. So LSP-8, IOC-1, and IOC-2 were like the original LSPs instead. And IOC-3 onwards were standardized.

So, if we get AMCA's TDs and early prototypes right, the program will run fine. The F-35's TD phase worked well, but they royally mucked up the prototype stage.

By 2030-31, the IAF will know if AMCA's gonna run fine or was mucked up completely.

 

[South block]

That tweet..Arun pudur is not real .
And I got fooled previously by same guy i think..
Long time back ,couldn't remember..
If we ask for source , he might give the old news of old timeline..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1889357256971657305

 

[Rajput Lion]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1889357256971657305

It is not advisable to underestimate our enemy.

LSP --> IOC --> FOC.

LSP production will begin in 2029. While LCA's LSPs were turned into prototypes, AMCA's LSPs will be handed over to the IAF for operational testing. The final LSP, the 8th one, will become the standard for IOC. 8 LSPs are half a squadron strong and are enough for the IAF to test the airframes out. The program can even end with 3-4 LSPs if necessary.

So IAF will receive their LSPs in 2031 and 2032, by which time IOC will be achieved and then comes the SP stage. Over the next 4-5 years, they will deliver all 20 IOC jets at 2-8 per year. Then come the last 20 FOC at 4-8 per year, so that's 2038.

From 2040 hopefully, we will be ready to take deliveries of the definitive model. The IOC to FOC transition will be slow, but FOC to definitive model will be fast.

We are in the make or break phase today. LCA's TDs were good, but the prototypes (semi) failed, so the LSPs were turned into prototypes instead. Typically, the prototypes carry avionics, but in LCA's case it had to be done on LSP-3 and 4. LSP-2 came with the definitive engine. So LSP-8, IOC-1, and IOC-2 were like the original LSPs instead. And IOC-3 onwards were standardized.

So, if we get AMCA's TDs and early prototypes right, the program will run fine. The F-35's TD phase worked well, but they royally mucked up the prototype stage.

By 2030-31, the IAF will know if AMCA's gonna run fine or was mucked up completely.

2040 was also my prediction for FOC. In this case an imported 5th gen becomes imperative and it has to be Su-57 in some form.

 

[randomradio]

2040 was also my prediction for FOC. In this case an imported 5th gen becomes imperative and it has to be Su-57 in some form.

The time frame for what I posted requires a 2032 IOC and a 2037 FOC.

HAL's planned for a soft form of concurrency to meet this time frame, which they are first attempting on LCA Mk2.

 

[Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik]

ATS means Air turbine starter

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Well, every screw is important in stealth jet.
Your info sharing is well appreciated, so don't misunderstand me or take anything personally.
However, such public documents about such small simple components like Bellows doesn't give confidence at least to qualified citizens that the work is really progressing at right pace. The AMCA program is said to start in 2010 & after 15 years such small simple components are getting INITIATED that too on paper, not the manufacturing.

It also takes entire life cycle of the said product to get mature enough because all these are combination of various technological application hence contain major glitches that can cripple the entire product within a flash. the proof being Microsoft have to release update regularly, if you use one old version of the tech you will be considered vulnerable, which in military terms is not acceptable at all. So expecting Turk or chinese versions to be mature right off the bat is kinda meh. Low IQ pak will buy the argument but on field the difference will be clear.

Today's lifecycle & timeline using supercomputing, robotics, AI/ML, other automations, have to shrink a lot compared to 1980s/90s & then 2000s/2010s.

As for the slow part, you first need to establish the different enabling technology done to an acceptable standard, like stealth material at component level, passive sensors etc. Then you can venture into the core project.

We have RAM, RAS now but other components should have been developed in parallel by now, not get initiated today.
For example, if we don't have 50 ton press then why not? When will it come?
I'm not journalist but a regular citizen. So i see Tonbo Imaging firm demonstrating see-through tech for APCs, IFVs by EO sensors, but what about aircrafts? I mean the DAS, EOTS should have been demonstrated by now, not still under R&D.

Not what I meant. I mean why there are so few 5th gen jets in the market available as option , and a country (China) that itself copies & imitates every single other product suddenly managed to go past everyone and matured the tech needed for future generations. This is not how technical maturity happens or a product becomes major defect free acceptable standard.

You can always choose to invest in a gold plated product to show your capability even if the product is full of defects that are not known in public knowledge. You can publicly show that it is your major deterrent which the low IQ public will believe. This is detrimental to your own forces operational capability only. Once the other side call out the bluff part of it, we can guess what follow after.

> The ultimate thing which matters is stopping inavsion, occupation, looting, snatching terrirories & for that espionage, copying, reverse engineering is although unethical but still regular thing across the world since ancient times. USA openly flaunts captured MiGs. USA being inventor of internet, most protocols, OSs, standards, organisations & dominant in H/w also, is the biggest digital spy, the world knows this since 1990s or before.
So it won't ever stop & complaining about it doesn't help. Asking for ToT will also be criticized.
> The concept of IOC, FOC, MLU itself is proof that an incomplete, immatured or partially matured product has to be inducted 1st.
Currently the public doesn't clearly know diff. b/w IOC & FOC in terms of sensors, weapons, aux components.
A TD may just have the flight avionics but IOC should have capability of 1 BVR-AAM type + 1 CCM type + 1 drop & forget bomb/AGM type weapons.
We should make AMCA project a 16x5 schedule to fly prototype in 2027 & get this IOC by 2030.

 

[Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik]

i guess old school mentality, lack of young generation from reputed IIT , and low salaries DRDO is not able to absorb new out-of the box thinking guys,
rather have to stick with low skill people who are not ready to change and follow old proven techniques of aircraft development,
we also lack many modern facilities and stuck in soviet era machines due to our ties with Russia.
turkey was able to churn out prototype in 2 years due to use of modern machinery and collaboration with western MIC.

There are many problems:
- Monopoly with no competition.
- Private sector tycoons not interested in R&D.
- Over-optimism on peace.
- Income Tax theft, financial scams.
- Linear approach.
- Office politics, discouragement, suppression of ideas, personal attacks.

Is AMCA an air superiority fighter?

Depends on era to era, state of technologies, doctrines, strategy.
Some people want to complicate things defining ASF Vs ADF Vs etc.
On F-22/35 thread, seeing the ASF debate, i almost fainted. Let me see when can i find time to go through those pages, may be never.
To simplify things in 2025+ era any new jet, if 5gen, should have typical features of 5gen like sensor fusion, BVR-AAMs obviously, IIR CCMs, TVC for gun-fight, good EW/SPJ. 6gen adds some more weapons, fuel, range, computing, EW/CW, DEW. The pilot should survive using tech & tactics, that's it.

I don't think the AMCA will fly before 2029 & unlike the Mk-2 it will take 5 years to achieve FOC post which you may see skipping of the LRIP stage & directly go into mass production. I don't expect the numbers to remain static at 40 nos too. I'm expecting double this number.

It's time we initiate studies into the 6th Gen FA project ASAP with ADA working in tandem with IAF to explore possibilities of a AHCA in line with the NGAD or GCAP or the J-36 of China.

We need to begin design & developmental work on it by the early 2030s. Also studies are needed for the N-AMCA. If the IN is looking for a 5th Gen FA we can't afford a clean sheet design that too for the kind of numbers that the IN will induct.

Further IN needs a kick on the same spot we administer to sweetie every now & then to get a move on with the TEDBF & get it into mass production by 2035 & cease their sly ways by trying to sneak in another tranche of Rafale M by going slow on the TEDBF & now allegedly thinking of converting it into a 5th Gen (?) or attempting to come up with a clean sheet design

F-35C has demonstrated that AMCA with identical design can also be tweaked for N-AMCA. The J-35 is proof of that.
The current 4.5gen TEDBF can also be easily tweaked for 5gen.
Today India has 100s of 1000s of engineers but everybody will not have same imagination, creativity, design skill.

 

[Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1889357256971657305

That's why i never went to Twitter & stopped discussing on FB, YT, Quora, etc.

 

[Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik]

Is Pakistan planning to sell its ForEx, gold deposits, factories, land, etc?
The export variant will obviously be weaker than domestic ones.

 

[Innominate]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1889357256971657305

Is that randomradio's X account? Wow Arun sounds like some in here.

J-20 no match for Tejas. J-16 no match for MKI.... Got it!

 

[marich01]

Detail Engg design phase (the engg drawings etc based on which production starts for parts etc) for AMCA is about to begin.

 

[Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik]

Detail Engg design phase (the engg drawings etc based on which production starts for parts etc) for AMCA is about to begin.

View attachment 43666

This is confusing.
Can you please elaborate a little on this for general public.
In last 15 years we have seen airframe shape iterations & evolution which is done with arranging the components. ADA shared CAD of mechanical structure like following for example:





We see minute components also.
Hence a citizen would think that at least protoype construction is in full swing.
The factory workers know where to fit the components.

So now after 15 years what does this BEGINNING of detailed design & engineering of AIRFRAME mean?
Is it for a modified production airframe different from prototypes?

 

[marich01]

This is confusing.
Can you please elaborate a little on this for general public.

general engineering drawings for production, those bigger parts are combination of smaller parts for which engineering drawing, finite element analysis etc are done. The center fuselage structure has got estimated ~ 2400 engg drawings alone. Here the works are for the below parts

 

[randomradio]

Is that randomradio's X account? Wow Arun sounds like some in here.

J-20 no match for Tejas. J-16 no match for MKI.... Got it!

You should go there and educate him.

 

[Sathya]

I ll we ll hear lot of metal cutting from now on.

 

[marich01]

I ll we ll hear lot of metal cutting from now on.

after T0+18 months

 

[liberalredditor]

I ll we ll hear lot of metal cutting from now on.

HAL, CMD launched Metal Cutting for Titanium Bulkhead of AMCA aircraft

HAL, CMD launched Metal Cutting for Titanium Bulkhead of AMCA aircraft

www.psuconnect.in

 

[South block]

HAL, CMD launched Metal Cutting for Titanium Bulkhead of AMCA aircraft

HAL, CMD launched Metal Cutting for Titanium Bulkhead of AMCA aircraft

www.psuconnect.in

So what happened ?.... Another jumla

 

[liberalredditor]

So what happened ?.... Another jumla

maybe the babus and hal people went to porkistan to get their hilale pakistan award

 

[Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik]

general engineering drawings for production, those bigger parts are combination of smaller parts for which engineering drawing, finite element analysis etc are done. The center fuselage structure has got estimated ~ 2400 engg drawings alone. Here the works are for the below parts

View attachment 43675

Looking at those cutaway diagrams of various jets, many of us are aware of 100s of parts. If we start counting their nut, bolt, rings, tubes, wires, etc then definitely there will be 1000s of physically separate objects.

But we had CATIA kind of S/w since 2000s. So all these detailed CAD should have been finished by now, ready to be fed to lathe machines.
Now someone might say that general CAD is made for CCS approval then detailed CAD.
Then CCS delayed the approval.
Then someone might say that DPSU & private sector work share & business model is not final yet. Then why not?
So far only DPSUs have made designs & when 5gen is the only way forward then the components CAD should have been made proactively.
After initial design, the YF-22 was re-designed from July-October 1987 in just 3 months using that era's primitive CAD S/w. This is 2020s.




Now someone would say that YF-22 took 15 years to become F-22 & get inducted in 2005.
But this is not 1990s & 2000s. Children born then are ready to reproduce their children now.>>>

Ultimately, war breaks out unexpectedly & everybody will suffer. Reasons of delays don't work.

 

[marich01]

Looking at those cutaway diagrams of various jets, many of us are aware of 100s of parts. If we start counting their nut, bolt, rings, tubes, wires, etc then definitely there will be 1000s of physically separate objects.

Its not like that, basically the early aerodynamic configuration design is more like a theory part. It has got its own development, simulation part to prove the aerodynamic design and based on that the design reviews are done. once complete design reviews are done after IV&V (independent verification & validation) and project is cleared for prototype development then the engg drawings are needed. Both the early aerodynamic design phase and engg drawing phase are sort of evolving with scope for amendments ie changes made during this phase are allowed over original config.

Furthermore, first designs are done in house, based on that literature documents are created, then handed over to some design agency for the next phase, which is why many design agencies work across different phases. So the early design and later production stage design would be done by various firms and ADA = HAL as nodal agencies will decide the scope. ADA in charge of design and HAL in charge of production phases.

In this current tender , these are deliverables