ADA AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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India

They will find an indigenous route by then, but it will be delayed to the mid-40s.

Although we are working with others, we have parallel efforts of our own for other uses. Let's get a working paper design first.
 

marich01

Senior member
Aug 17, 2022
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Screenshot (2).png


 

marich01

Senior member
Aug 17, 2022
2,205
2,819
India
Let's get started, it will be good if we at least construct something. There should be a time limit on the planning phase. Give our engineer a chance to build something.

Frankly . any further delay we get to experience now on would be attributed to GOI own policy of min 50-60% indigenisation / 50% Indian value addition / Import substitution / phased indigenisation related. HAL had been very happy to import anything & everything so far, but they have been told by the MoD over the past 12 months to stop importing & make locally/do the above steps etc. ADA and the indi LRU lists have lots of import substitution pending.

Even right now , say CVRDE or other lab, if they have to make an import substitution related to Tejas, for that you need to test and make the particular item and you obviously would need to import some test material, sensor, fastener or anything related that are not available within the country. So they have to write to MoD first & get a clearance, mere getting that clearance now takes 6-7 months whether it is DRDO lab or BEL/HAL whoever is doing the work. You can get idea of preplanning needed to keep in touch with schedule. Impossible to do so and maintain 3-4 year strict timeline. Local import substitution also needs time to get certified for airworthyness.

In essence, there will be significant delay, and it will be fully due to Govt own policy, which the Govt is very happy with.
 

TARGET

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
818
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Frankly . any further delay we get to experience now on would be attributed to GOI own policy of min 50-60% indigenisation / 50% Indian value addition / Import substitution / phased indigenisation related. HAL had been very happy to import anything & everything so far, but they have been told by the MoD over the past 12 months to stop importing & make locally/do the above steps etc. ADA and the indi LRU lists have lots of import substitution pending.

Even right now , say CVRDE or other lab, if they have to make an import substitution related to Tejas, for that you need to test and make the particular item and you obviously would need to import some test material, sensor, fastener or anything related that are not available within the country. So they have to write to MoD first & get a clearance, mere getting that clearance now takes 6-7 months whether it is DRDO lab or BEL/HAL whoever is doing the work. You can get idea of preplanning needed to keep in touch with schedule. Impossible to do so and maintain 3-4 year strict timeline. Local import substitution also needs time to get certified for airworthyness.

In essence, there will be significant delay, and it will be fully due to Govt own policy, which the Govt is very happy with.
Agree, It's undeniable that we are waiting for clarification on the engine deal with a better option. After the deal with the USA, MOD is just sitting on the file and not providing the required funds. There is policy paralysis. The Raksha Mantri is easily able to see the priorities. The delays are on the implementation side, which will have a cascading effect and may bring more foreign-mall into the picture.
 
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RASALGHUL

Active member
Aug 13, 2022
790
241
India
Buy 4-5 squadrons of AMCA Mk3 alongside India buying 6-9 squadrons of Rafale F5 and you won't need SCAF until 2070+. You can equip your AMCA squadrons with F6 tech with full production transfer of the airframe and engine. It will act as a stopgap for the AAE and also save Dassault the headache of useless collaborations. In the meantime, France and India can collaborate on a more dedicated naval jet.
My Dear @randomradio, What makes you so optimist about AMCA project?
Do you think ADA/DRDO is fully capable of making a stealth jet on their own ( Barring Engine)?
Modern IRST, Modern EW Suite, Sensor Fusion, RAM, RAS, Modern AESA Radar, etc....??
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
17,973
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My Dear @randomradio, What makes you so optimist about AMCA project?
Do you think ADA/DRDO is fully capable of making a stealth jet on their own ( Barring Engine)?

Yes. They have already achieved VLO modeling, which is why AMCA is in the CDR stage. And a more stealthy drone design than AMCA is already under fabrication.

Modern IRST, Modern EW Suite, Sensor Fusion, RAM, RAS, Modern AESA Radar, etc....??

Already achieved. The core technologies we have developed today for LCA Mk1A, Mk2 and MKI MLU are already more advanced than what's operational in Europe today, including quite a bit of what's on the F-35.
 
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RASALGHUL

Active member
Aug 13, 2022
790
241
India
Already achieved. The core technologies we have developed today for LCA Mk1A, Mk2 and MKI MLU are already more advanced than what's operational in Europe today, including quite a bit of what's on the F-35.
Like What, Which Core Technologies?
Please be specific.....
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
17,973
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India
Like What, Which Core Technologies?
Please be specific.....

Radar, EW suite, cockpit etc.

The US and Europe are still using analog antennas, and we are using digital for example. Our IRST is QWIP dual channel, as is our MAWS. The others are still using single channel QWIP or dual channel MCT. Almost all countries, including India, will be introducing GaN on fighters at roughly the same time.
 
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Hydra

Senior member
May 19, 2020
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Mumbai
Buy 4-5 squadrons of AMCA Mk3 alongside India buying 6-9 squadrons of Rafale F5 and you won't need SCAF until 2070+. You can equip your AMCA squadrons with F6 tech with full production transfer of the airframe and engine. It will act as a stopgap for the AAE and also save Dassault the headache of useless collaborations. In the meantime, France and India can collaborate on a more dedicated naval jet.
LCA mk1a is yet to role out, it is supposed to follow mk2. Then comes AMCA on table. Here you are talking about amca mk3.
We just trimmed original mmrca to mere 36. The mrfa RFP is yet to out, only god knows what will happen to mrfa tender, even if mrfa materialize there is no guarantee that Rafale will be shortlisted. Now here you are talking aboit Rfale f6 tech for India.
Please try to be realistic....
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
17,973
13,210
India
LCA mk1a is yet to role out, it is supposed to follow mk2. Then comes AMCA on table. Here you are talking about amca mk3.
We just trimmed original mmrca to mere 36. The mrfa RFP is yet to out, only god knows what will happen to mrfa tender, even if mrfa materialize there is no guarantee that Rafale will be shortlisted. Now here you are talking aboit Rfale f6 tech for India.
Please try to be realistic....

You start now for a program that will deliver in 10-15 years. That's how development works.
 
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