ADA AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

Rajput Lion

Member
Sep 23, 2022
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May I ask, what exactly is an Adaptive Cycle Engine that GE is developing ? I mean what category of jet engine is it ? Is it the same turbofan engine with advancements and ability to adapt to sub-/trans-/supersonic speeds or is it an entirely new kind of engine which is different from turbo -jet/-fan/-prop/-shaft ?
Engine that is designed to perform optimally under various speed zones(subsonic/transonic/supersonic) and various altitudes with very high fuel efficiency. Read it's the next cutting edge engine tech.
 

Valhalla

Member
Dec 22, 2021
16
18
India
Adaptive Cycle Engine
It is a next-generation engine- 14 years in the making..


Further reading The Air Force is eyeing groundbreaking new engines for the F-35

Throughout most of aviation history, engine design has always been about compromise. Commercial, cargo, and many reconnaissance aircraft usually leverage engines that were designed to offer excellent fuel efficiency at the expense of top-end performance, while tactical jets like fighters carry engines that are designed primarily for maximum performance at the expense of fuel efficiency.

The aim of adaptive cycle (sometimes called variable cycle) engines is to eliminate this compromise and offer superior performance and efficiency in a single power plant.

these engines are designed to operate in different “modes.” When the pilot needs the engine’s peak performance in combat, he or she can lean hard on the throttle and the engine’s management system will take its cue to switch into its heavy-burning high-thrust mode. Conversely, while on a patrol, the engine would stay in its high-efficiency, low-burning mode to stretch the mileage or loiter time provided by each gallon of fuel.

Incredibly, we’re not just talking about matching the power output of previous engines while increasing range… we’re talking about a 10% or better increase of thrust practically across the flight envelope alongside a 25% or better jump in range.

“When you translate that to what it means to the platform, it’s 30% more range or 50% more loiter time depending on how you want to utilize that fuel burn improvement. It’s a significant increase in acceleration and combat capability with the increased thrust,”

“three-stream architecture” enables a doubling of thermal management capacity, or in other words, a real reduction in the heat created by the engine’s operation. Heat is currently a limiting factor in power production for fighters, which have to limit their output to avoid damaging the aircraft itself. That will no longer be the case with the new generation of adaptive cycle engines, meaning fighters will have more electrical power to run systems.

advanced component technologies used in the construction of their XA100 engine, including additive and Ceramic Matrix Composites, also reduce the overall weight of the engine while also increasing durability over previous designs.
 

Valhalla

Member
Dec 22, 2021
16
18
India
This engine will allow the F-35 to unquestioningly surpass the Rafale in pretty much any mission involving the subsonic regime.

Looking at the 2030-2070+ window (2030 for MRFA winner to start joining IAF squadrons & stay for 40+ years which is the designed life of a fighter like F-35)- why is IAF not entering the F-35A Lightening II into MRFA? If there are real qualms about dependence on US- that boat sailed long ago as we already are dependent on them by way of GE's F-404/414 EPE & beyond for 100% of our desi fleet.

In 2070 with a mix of AMCA I & II, Tejas Mk2, Rafale(?), ORCA(?) in IAF & TEDBF in IN (besides unmanned fleet)- won't the F-35A & C for IAF and IN bought as part of MRFA & MRCBF respectively be most relevant & provide the best edge against our adversaries from today all the way up to 2070?

If this question has been already answered, please point me in the right direction.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
15,577
11,326
India
Looking at the 2030-2070+ window (2030 for MRFA winner to start joining IAF squadrons & stay for 40+ years which is the designed life of a fighter like F-35)- why is IAF not entering the F-35A Lightening II into MRFA? If there are real qualms about dependence on US- that boat sailed long ago as we already are dependent on them by way of GE's F-404/414 EPE & beyond for 100% of our desi fleet.

In 2070 with a mix of AMCA I & II, Tejas Mk2, Rafale(?), ORCA(?) in IAF & TEDBF in IN (besides unmanned fleet)- won't the F-35A & C for IAF and IN bought as part of MRFA & MRCBF respectively be most relevant & provide the best edge against our adversaries from today all the way up to 2070?

If this question has been already answered, please point me in the right direction.

MRFA and MRCBF are for 4.5th gen specifically because 5th gen airframes and engines are still unproven. Both services are choosing next gen avionics over next gen airframes and engines.

Kelly also warned that there are “fourth-generation aircraft with fifth-generation capabilities,” and it is becoming too simplistic to categorize aircraft. He said that older aircraft are outfitted with increasingly advanced sensors and weapons.

The F-35 is still 6+ years away from getting up to spec. Even though its future possibilities are greater compared to the Rafale or SH, a lot of capabilities taken for granted on the latter jets, like advanced active and passive EW, are still locked on the F-35 until B4 is completed. Stealth drones will make up for the difference anyway.

As per both the Americans and French, the SH and Rafale will be relevant until 2050, so that's good enough for us. A different jet is necessary beyond that, even the F-35 won't help.

There are industrial and customisation requirements in both programs that won't be delivered with the F-35, so we can't risk turning either program into a white elephant.

I hope to see an F-35 vs Su-57M contest for the IAF in the form of a small silver bullet fleet and F-35Bs for the IN's future assault ships, but they could both end up only in dreams.

The GE engines come with full ToT, so there's no possibility of future dependency on the US.
 
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TARGET

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
774
635
No one is asking about the critical technology update status, so ADA and HAL should provide some information regarding the updated timeline of the LCA MK2 and AMCA project status. The MOD must be reminded that this will improve the government's image and help it win the election.
 

Jersey27

Member
Nov 26, 2021
25
13
New Zealand
No one is asking about the critical technology update status, so ADA and HAL should provide some information regarding the updated timeline of the LCA MK2 and AMCA project status. The MOD must be reminded that this will improve the government's image and help it win the election.
You're overestimating the technical acumen of the average voter.
 

Chain Smoker

Well-Known member
Mar 2, 2020
780
630
india
No one is asking about the critical technology update status, so ADA and HAL should provide some information regarding the updated timeline of the LCA MK2 and AMCA project status. The MOD must be reminded that this will improve the government's image and help it win the election.
Do u really think illiterate and poor voter care about aeronautical programs lol.
 

TARGET

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
774
635
Do u really think illiterate and poor voter care about aeronautical programs lol.
I don't think we should have any reason to doubt the Indian people's understanding of the situation in the world now, at a time when mobile and internet penetration is growing daily and people will accept money from both parties during election time, but they will only vote for the party they have already decided to support. I agree that a defense project is not a significant public relations exercise when compared to efforts for infrastructure projects like the Chenab Bridge, the bullet train, or government jobs.
 
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Doreamon

New member
Nov 11, 2022
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Odisha
Do u really think illiterate and poor voter care about aeronautical programs lol.

And do you think literate rich people care ? These defence forums around the world are miniscule population . Does american weapon development success / failure decide american election or abortion rights ?

The ideal situation i see for india of future is creation of profit seeking entities in defence ecosystem with deep interest in export market . This ll ensure efficiency as well as quality .
 

TARGET

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
774
635
You're overestimating the technical acumen of the average voter.
I was talking about defense manufacturing as election PR because, in Indian politics, PR includes inaugurating a new bridge, a new Vande Bharat train, or riding a K9 vajra, which you wouldn't see in Western countries.
 

Jersey27

Member
Nov 26, 2021
25
13
New Zealand
I was talking about defense manufacturing as election PR because, in Indian politics, PR includes inaugurating a new bridge, a new Vande Bharat train, or riding a K9 vajra, which you wouldn't see in Western countries.
There are more PR gains to be had by buying 36 rafales every 5 years than buying 126 mrfa at once.

PR can also be gained from botched projects as long as you have a section of the media on your side.