S-400 'Triumf' News & Discussion

So you put in billion of dollars in a system which is ineffective in theory itself?
Its effectiveness in a combat situation is unknown, but what is known from historical data is that AAMs fired from fighters are more effective at downing aircraft than SAMs. SA-2 Pks were below 1%, with multiple launches per sortie and only 2% of sorties resulting in a loss.
 
The Syrians shot down an Israeli F-16 with the S-200.
But that is the only enemy aircraft. Meanwhile it shot down a Russian IL-20M and Siberian Airlines Flight 1812 in 2001. They had multiple misses over Libya in 1986 and zero hits, with one missile destroying a Libyan hospital. S-200s also had a 478lb warhead, and even with that they couldn't hit jack shit, the Israeli F-16I shoot-down was probably the result of a pot luck air-burst rather than functional targeting and guidance. How many Israeli sorties have been flown with no shoot down?
 
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That was an SA-3 and at a very short range`. The F-117A had no EW, RWR or MAWS and flew the same route too many times and didn't manoeuvre. It was essentially a UAV type target in that respect.
How come they were locked on by radars when they were supposed to be invisible??
What stopped them from outmaneuvering the missiles. Those missiles were decades old and were supposed to be obselete yet they downed one of the most advanced pieces of technology of that time, so imagine what could an S-400 battery do now. Thats why american hawks are shit scared of proliferation of S-400s.
 
But that is the only enemy aircraft. Meanwhile it shot down a Russian IL-20M and Siberian Airlines Flight 1812 in 2001. They had multiple misses over Libya in 1986 and zero hits, with one missile destroying a Libyan hospital. S-200s also had a 478lb warhead, and even with that they couldn't hit jack shit, the Israeli F-16I shoot-down was probably the result of a pot luck air-burst rather than functional targeting and guidance. How many Israeli sorties have been flown with no shoot down?

You are just making excuses.

All Israeli F-16s are capable of being brought down by the S-200. In this case, the Israeli pilots screwed up and did not activate countermeasures. Had they done it, they would have escaped.
 
You are just making excuses.

All Israeli F-16s are capable of being brought down by the S-200. In this case, the Israeli pilots screwed up and did not activate countermeasures. Had they done it, they would have escaped.
Not to mention systems like S 300s and S 400s when operated by skilled crews like Russians, Indians or Chinese are capable of creating a formidable anti access/area denial bubble. The Americans themselves accepted this fact.
 
Not to mention systems like S 300s and S 400s when operated by skilled crews like Russians, Indians or Chinese are capable of creating a formidable anti access/area denial bubble. The Americans themselves accepted this fact.

Naturally.

The Syrian S-200s are extremely old, but they have been modernized quite a bit. It's capable of bringing down any fighter jet as long as the pilot is unaware of the threat. So, against more capable SAMs like the S-300 or the S-400, if the countermeasures fail, the jets will fall like flies. And the more capable the crew is, the more dangerous is the SAM.
 
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You are just making excuses.

All Israeli F-16s are capable of being brought down by the S-200. In this case, the Israeli pilots screwed up and did not activate countermeasures. Had they done it, they would have escaped.
No. Israelis had the EW on but the system prioritises the threats by first dealing with threats which are closest to it. The Russians had told the trick to the Syrians. The radars and missiles closest to the Israeli aircraft lit up when the lang range radars started tracking the F-16s. When the short range missiles were fired, the EW systems tried to tackle them while the high flying, long range missiles took out the F-16. The Israelis were so scared and shocked that very next day they rushed to Moscow to plead to Russians to stop this game.
 
Naturally.

The Syrian S-200s are extremely old, but they have been modernized quite a bit. It's capable of bringing down any fighter jet as long as the pilot is unaware of the threat. So, against more capable SAMs like the S-300 or the S-400, if the countermeasures fail, the jets will fall like flies. And the more capable the crew is, the more dangerous is the SAM.
S-400 system has very capable jammers to do saturation jamming also. Please remember they can jam nearly anything within 300kms including GPS. So if Russians decide to engage Israeli AF, the game will be extremely different and suddenly the so called invincibles might just fall out of sky like stones.
 
You are just making excuses.

All Israeli F-16s are capable of being brought down by the S-200. In this case, the Israeli pilots screwed up and did not activate countermeasures. Had they done it, they would have escaped.
So why haven't more been brought down? An SA-2 with a 440lb warhead could take down aircraft by exploding 120m away, an S-200 has a 478lb warhead. In the end, the North Vietnamese were just firing SA-2s up to altitude unguided and air bursting them. The S-200 is a similar story. The other issue is trying to fire SAMs with huge warheads at planes whilst your fighters are engaging them. You can't do both without risking your own aircraft a la IL-20M incident. Even if the SAMs are going for the right plane, another friendly plane can get in the way or be hit by shrapnel.
 
No. Israelis had the EW on but the system prioritises the threats by first dealing with threats which are closest to it. The Russians had told the trick to the Syrians. The radars and missiles closest to the Israeli aircraft lit up when the lang range radars started tracking the F-16s. When the short range missiles were fired, the EW systems tried to tackle them while the high flying, long range missiles took out the F-16. The Israelis were so scared and shocked that very next day they rushed to Moscow to plead to Russians to stop this game.
More like they went to Moscow to tell them they were going to start applying a liberal dose of SEAD/DEAD if it persisted, which is the other risk for SAMs. At present there is an agreement not to fire SAMs at US/NATO aircraft because they know the SAMs existences will be short-lived if they do. If one US plane goes down, all SAMs will be gone within 24 hours, Russian or Syrian.
 
Not to mention systems like S 300s and S 400s when operated by skilled crews like Russians, Indians or Chinese are capable of creating a formidable anti access/area denial bubble. The Americans themselves accepted this fact.
Says who, evidence from actual combat?
 
How come they were locked on by radars when they were supposed to be invisible??
What stopped them from outmaneuvering the missiles. Those missiles were decades old and were supposed to be obselete yet they downed one of the most advanced pieces of technology of that time, so imagine what could an S-400 battery do now. Thats why american hawks are shit scared of proliferation of S-400s.
Because they were almost on top of the site and had the bomb bay doors open, it was also raining.

Simple, they had no RWR or MAWS in the F-117A, so the pilot knew nothing about the launch or where the threat was located. In an F-35 or F-22 the position of the threat is shown on a screen with radius around it marking the unsafe zone, which is naturally very small with stealth aircraft. Any launch would also be detected and they have an EW capacity through both jamming and active RF countermeasures.
 
S-400 system has very capable jammers to do saturation jamming also. Please remember they can jam nearly anything within 300kms including GPS. So if Russians decide to engage Israeli AF, the game will be extremely different and suddenly the so called invincibles might just fall out of sky like stones.
Let's see them try it and we'll see how long those S-400 systems lasts afterwards. ARMs can home on jamming just as surely as an active radar. Fire some BQM-74s, watch the radars light up and them waste their missiles, then move in for the kill.
 
Because they were almost on top of the site and had the bomb bay doors open, it was also raining.

Simple, they had no RWR or MAWS in the F-117A, so the pilot knew nothing about the launch or where the threat was located. In an F-35 or F-22 the position of the threat is shown on a screen with radius around it marking the unsafe zone, which is naturally very small with stealth aircraft. Any launch would also be detected and they have an EW capacity through both jamming and active RF countermeasures.

Serbs must have already detected the aircraft many times before downing it, that made them confident enough to shoot it down. Its RCS was pretty much known to Russians ,thats why americans retired it so early.

You do realize that modern SAMs also has Countermeasures and jammers that could potentially blind the radars and sensors of F 22 or F 35.
Nebo M system could not be jammed as all its radars are passive in nature.
 
No. Israelis had the EW on but the system prioritises the threats by first dealing with threats which are closest to it. The Russians had told the trick to the Syrians. The radars and missiles closest to the Israeli aircraft lit up when the lang range radars started tracking the F-16s. When the short range missiles were fired, the EW systems tried to tackle them while the high flying, long range missiles took out the F-16. The Israelis were so scared and shocked that very next day they rushed to Moscow to plead to Russians to stop this game.

They have a story to tell.

Army: Crew of F-16 downed by Syria made ‘professional error’

Probably telling only half the story there.
 
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S-400 system has very capable jammers to do saturation jamming also. Please remember they can jam nearly anything within 300kms including GPS. So if Russians decide to engage Israeli AF, the game will be extremely different and suddenly the so called invincibles might just fall out of sky like stones.

The S-400 will likely not come into play between Syria and Israel. And the Israelis will not attack the Russians either.

So it will be interesting to see how the Israelis will deal with the Syrian S-300 threat. The Israelis have trained against older Greek S-300s and they also have a handful of F-35s.
 
So why haven't more been brought down? An SA-2 with a 440lb warhead could take down aircraft by exploding 120m away, an S-200 has a 478lb warhead. In the end, the North Vietnamese were just firing SA-2s up to altitude unguided and air bursting them. The S-200 is a similar story. The other issue is trying to fire SAMs with huge warheads at planes whilst your fighters are engaging them. You can't do both without risking your own aircraft a la IL-20M incident. Even if the SAMs are going for the right plane, another friendly plane can get in the way or be hit by shrapnel.

Look up the losses the Israelis suffered in Yom Kippur.
 
Serbs must have already detected the aircraft many times before downing it, that made them confident enough to shoot it down. Its RCS was pretty much known to Russians ,thats why americans retired it so early.

You do realize that modern SAMs also has Countermeasures and jammers that could potentially blind the radars and sensors of F 22 or F 35.
Nebo M system could not be jammed as all its radars are passive in nature.
They may have detected it on longer wave radars, like VHF, but it would not have been targetable with this radar and an F-35/22 would have picked up this transmission from beyond the SAM effective range.

Jamming would also be picked up and geolocated by the RWRs. Nebo M is VHF and can indeed be geolocated.

Air defences have never triumphed over air power in the long run.