Brexit and Future of UK : Discussions

Bon Plan said:
It's one of the very good news of the last 3 years !
GB always was a foe in the EU. Good bye GB.
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A foe because of a difference of opinion? I'm honestly not even sure it is a difference of opinion because no other countries have actually had a referendum on the matter.
 
Bon Plan said:
I don't think USN is keen to leave, even in exercise, another ship sinking one of its treasure.
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This stuff happens all the time in exercises. Heck, 5 Rafales killed themselves in peacetime for no reason.
 
BMD said:
5 Rafales killed themselves in peacetime for no reason.
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No reason ? just ask if you don't know :
1 due to spatial disorientation of the pilot.
2 in mid air collision during weapons trials.
1 lost on sea during a very near dog fight with F18 or SH18 (too low, anemometric probes "crazy" because of the jet exhaust : the pilot decided to eject)
1 lost on sea after an error during an air refulling.

On the five, only one, the first, of the air force. The other are navy models.


PS : 6 Eurofighter destroyed, and one so injured that it wasn't repaired. No sea Eurofighter....
 
Bon Plan said:
No reason ? just ask if you don't know :
1 due to spatial disorientation of the pilot.
2 in mid air collision during weapons trials.
1 lost on sea during a very near dog fight with F18 or SH18 (too low, anemometric probes "crazy" because of the jet exhaust : the pilot decided to eject)
1 lost on sea after an error during an air refulling.

On the five, only one, the first, of the air force. The other are navy models.


PS : 6 Eurofighter destroyed, and one so injured that it wasn't repaired. No sea Eurofighter....
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So 5 Rafales destroyed for real with French operators in peacetime.

No RAF Typhoons have been destroyed. We can't be held responsible for other operators. But it should be noted that Typhoons have done nearly 400,000 flying hours and one of the 6 you mention was a DA not a commissioned Typhoon, so 5 really, giving 1.2 per 100k flying hours vs 3 for Rafail.
 
BMD said:
So 5 Rafales destroyed for real with French operators in peacetime.

No RAF Typhoons have been destroyed. We can't be held responsible for other operators. But it should be noted that Typhoons have done nearly 400,000 flying hours and one of the 6 you mention was a DA not a commissioned Typhoon, so 5 really, giving 1.2 per 100k flying hours vs 3 for Rafail.
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As you know, an embarked plane has a far more loss rate. (And EF has no sea version).
Just do the same math with just the air Rafale version, so as to compare apple with apple.
 
Bon Plan said:
As you know, an embarked plane has a far more loss rate. (And EF has no sea version).
Just do the same math with just the air Rafale version, so as to compare apple with apple.
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:poop::poop::poop:
How does the take-off and landing platform affect mid-air collisions, spatial disorientation of the pilot, mid-air refuelling and crashing into the hard deck during a dog-fight with a Hornet?
 
BMD said:
:poop::poop::poop:
How does the take-off and landing platform affect mid-air collisions, spatial disorientation of the pilot, mid-air refuelling and crashing into the hard deck during a dog-fight with a Hornet?
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Because it's mainly (and 100% in the Rafale case) a single pilot plane,
Because it's more tiring to take off and land on a carrier,
Because a naval plane had to land with few fuel than an air one (that explain the error made by the pilot of the naval rafale lost after refuelling)
etc...

It's simple facts. Just compare Sea Harrier and Harrier loss rate.
 
BMD said:
But ironically they're doing exactly what he wants, taking responsibility for their own defence, which reduces US costs and increases their costs.
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America of Trump stopped to think global. It's a huge error, but an opportunity for EU (and China and Russia....)
It's far time than we, europeans, take our responsability in defense. And it creates jobs, instead of purchasing F35, Patriot, Harpoon, MQ9, P8....
 
Bon Plan said:
Because it's mainly (and 100% in the Rafale case) a single pilot plane,
Because it's more tiring to take off and land on a carrier,
Because a naval plane had to land with few fuel than an air one (that explain the error made by the pilot of the naval rafale lost after refuelling)
etc...

It's simple facts. Just compare Sea Harrier and Harrier loss rate.
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Both variants are single pilot dummy, the guy in the back doesn't fly.

Poor excuses.

Early VTOL aircraft were notoriously difficult to fly, you basically needed 3 hands, I'm sure @vstol Jockey will verify this, it's also an older design. F-35Bs have made all that stuff really easy with modern controls.
 
BMD said:
Both variants are single pilot dummy, the guy in the back doesn't fly.

Poor excuses.

Early VTOL aircraft were notoriously difficult to fly, you basically needed 3 hands, I'm sure @vstol Jockey will verify this, it's also an older design. F-35Bs have made all that stuff really easy with modern controls.
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The guy in the back do part of the job of a single pilot has to do because alone.

So good excuse.
 
Bon Plan said:
America of Trump stopped to think global. It's a huge error, but an opportunity for EU (and China and Russia....)
It's far time than we, europeans, take our responsability in defense. And it creates jobs, instead of purchasing F35, Patriot, Harpoon, MQ9, P8....
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The US spends $5bn a year defending Europe, so good luck with that. And just look at the Germans to examine EU will. 95% of the Luftwaffe is inoperable.
 
Bon Plan said:
The guy in the back do part of the job of a single pilot has to do because alone.

So good excuse.
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Pathetic excuse for mid-air collisions, refuelling incidents and crashing during a mock dogfight (which is pretty much the same as surrendering really). The WSO does weapons and navigation, they do not keep the plane out of the ground, refuel or prevent mid-air collisions.
 
BMD said:
The US spends $5bn a year defending Europe, so good luck with that. And just look at the Germans to examine EU will. 95% of the Luftwaffe is inoperable.
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German army is equipped. It's just a lack of support and maintenance.
It's faster to increase support than to wait years to receive hardware.
 
BMD said:
Pathetic excuse for mid-air collisions, refuelling incidents and crashing during a mock dogfight (which is pretty much the same as surrendering really). The WSO does weapons and navigation, they do not keep the plane out of the ground, refuel or prevent mid-air collisions.
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Facts are that 4 of the 5 rafale accidents occur on Marine model.
So Rafale "air" lost only 1 plane, on pilot (single...) error.
 
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