Pakistan AirForce : Updates & Discussions

Bruh, I clearly recall reading that the Phalcons were not on station at the time. The PAF reportedly struck during a change of shift (between RTB and TO/arrival). The radar screen grabs shown to the media by the IAF were indeed generated by a Phalcon but one that scrambled later.

That's just Pakistani propaganda, just like we didn't have comm systems that some people are still buying today, never mind the fact that the BNET contract was signed a few days before Balakot happened, and that Indian jets had ODL already operational at the time.

A Phalcon was present from before things started to after things ended. Kashmir had 24/7 AWACS.

To your 2nd point, IAF Phalcons don't fly nearly as much as the transport fleet. Even so spares supply has been a major problem.

More propaganda. Spares problems was back in the 90s, after the SU fell. Later problems had to do with service life, not spares, and it's primarily due to engine shortage.

Phalcons come with new engines and always had spares.

At least the IAF has never complained about the availability of Phalcons. The IL-76s chosen for it were of good quality and extremely new compared to the older fleet of IL-76s.
 
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That's just Pakistani propaganda, just like we didn't have comm systems that some people are still buying today, never mind the fact that the BNET contract was signed a few days before Balakot happened, and that Indian jets had ODL already operational at the time

Nope, circumstantial evidence says otherwise. If ODL were available, WC Varthaman would've avoided the use of radio comms and heeded orders from HQ to not cross the border.

Besides, SDR/DL antenna started appearing on most IAF fleets only about a year or 2 ago.


More propaganda. Spares problems was back in the 90s, after the SU fell. Later problems had to do with service life, not spares, and it's primarily due to engine shortage.

Phalcons come with new engines and always had spares.
 
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Nope, circumstantial evidence says otherwise. If ODL were available, WC Varthaman would've avoided the use of radio comms and heeded orders from HQ to not cross the border.

You mean Pakistani propaganda again?

ODL has been operational on IAF jets since 2010.

My post from 2020. Scroll through the thread a bit.

ACM said...

Abhinandan went all Rambo on his own. Had he not brought down the F-16 and gotten caught, he would have been court martialed for disobeying orders. He tricked his wingman into retreating and crossed the border. Happy conincidence that he's the son of an air marshal too.

Besides, SDR/DL antenna started appearing on most IAF fleets only about a year or 2 ago.


That's new stuff.

The third segment of the triptych is the Operational Data Link -- very similar to the Link 16/22 of NATO -- which will link up all the airborne platforms.
Thanks to the operational data link that enables the A-50I PHALCON to pass on the tactical air situation picture on to the Tejas, Su-30MKI, MiG-29UPG, etc.
 
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You mean Pakistani propaganda again?

ODL has been operational on IAF jets since 2010.

My post from 2020. Scroll through the thread a bit

If that's the case, why would the IAF have come up with an alibi about Abhinandan's radio being jammed and handed the PAF a propoganda victory in the process?

Abhinandan went all Rambo on his own. Had he not brought down the F-16 and gotten caught, he would have been court martialed for disobeying orders. He tricked his wingman into retreating and crossed the border. Happy conincidence that he's the son of an air marshal too.

Dhanoa seems to be specifically referring to the MKIs here which has its own TKS-2 IFDL.

Besides, had the ODL prog been implemented across the fleet as you say, why would the IAF be so secretive about it?

When BEL shipped Link 2 datalink hardware to the US for integration on the INs P-8Is, it was widely publicized as were the deal for BNET/Vayulink et all.

That's new stuff.

I'm curious to know about airframe/LRU related modifications the IAF might have carried out to integrate ODL on its ac. Could you point any out to me? Not black boxes mind you, antenna (patch, fin etc) please.
 
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It's a pity the IAF didn't ask the DRDO to adapt the Netra's side looking radar array into a conformal package, compact enough to go onboard a G550 class platform. Nose and tail antennas to cover the front and rear quadrants.

The DRDO could've leveraged its work on the ISTAR prog which uses the same airframe too.
Yes. Anyways, we are on right track now, just need to implement our projects little faster.
 
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Likely the ship has sailed for more PHALCONs(though I hope I am wrong). Now it's time for Netra MK3 with ROTODOME antenna with 360° coverage to take over in due time.
Adani Embraer deal adani to produce Embraer platforms. They can very well produce the E2 airframes and the erj series and the c390.
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We can have our own AEWCS, refuellers and compass call.
 
If that's the case, why would the IAF have come up with an alibi about Abhinandan's radio being jammed and handed the PAF a propoganda victory in the process?

Funny how his wingman heard it then.

Bet he heard it and still went through with the attack. Got the order, then ordered the wingman to turn back, and then Rambo'd into the enemy.

Dhanoa seems to be specifically referring to the MKIs here which has its own TKS-2 IFDL.

Besides, had the ODL prog been implemented across the fleet as you say, why would the IAF be so secretive about it?

When BEL shipped Link 2 datalink hardware to the US for integration on the INs P-8Is, it was widely publicized as were the deal for BNET/Vayulink et all.

Dhanoa was talking about ODL, not TKS-2.

TKS-2 is local to the MKIs, it is not useful for offboard communication, ie, between the air force and MKI, which uses ODL.

IAF is ridiculously secretive about too many things the others are not. It's due to the archaic nature of the OSA, which dates back to 1923. It needs reforms.

I'm curious to know about airframe/LRU related modifications the IAF might have carried out to integrate ODL on its ac. Could you point any out to me? Not black boxes mind you, antenna (patch, fin etc) please.

We don't know. IAF was so secretive about their programs that we did not even have official pictures of MKI carrying advanced weapons until Modi. I used to always complain about that to Hellfire, as to one of the reaons why we keep losing the propaganda war and how the mango man is clueless about anything the forces do in general. This was after the Uri surgical strikes. Things changed quickly after Uri in terms of how info was shared.

So we don't even know the actual designation of the ODL, never mind how it integrates on the aircraft. All we know is it was created by the Israelis. Rafael offered it for free, but because we don't accept aid from outside the G7, we rejected it. IAI won the contract.

Of course, it didn't meet the advanced next-gen requirements the IAF actually wanted, 4G SDR tech compared to ODL's 2G, so they launched a new program in 2013 that resulted in the BNET contract a few days before Balakot.
 
Bet he heard it and still went through with the attack. Got the order, then ordered the wingman to turn back, and then Rambo'd into the enemy.

So you're saying the story about Abhi's 'radio' being jammed was essentially cooked up then? A face saver for an errant pilot at the expense of an entire AF/nation?

TKS-2 is local to the MKIs, it is not useful for offboard communication, ie, between the air force and MKI, which uses ODL.

IAF is ridiculously secretive about too many things the others are not. It's due to the archaic nature of the OSA, which dates back to 1923. It needs reforms.

How come the same rules don't apply to the IN then? The broad specs of its Link 2 DL are on BELs website for the world to see
 
So you're saying the story about Abhi's 'radio' being jammed was essentially cooked up then? A face saver for an errant pilot at the expense of an entire AF/nation?

If that's the claim, it protects him legally. But all we have is an article carrying that story.

Had he failed to achieve anything, never mind the fact that he was a princeling, he would have either lost his life in Pak or been disciplined with loss of rank or even jailtime after returning.

His actions gave Pakistan breathing space which was detrimental to India, but at the same time, it gave India escalation dominance, so we could end things without having to bring the navy in, let along the army, the latter positioned to invade. He got lucky things worked out for him politically.

Anyway, the wingman does not obey the orders of the controller, only the group leader. If they were both jammed, and only the wingman turned back, it was only by the order of the leader. If they had been jammed and unknowingly crossed the border, then both would have crossed the border, not just the leader.

How come the same rules don't apply to the IN then? The broad specs of its Link 2 DL are on BELs website for the world to see

OSA on PSUs is a bit lax. They are allowed to advertise. That's why DRDO's stuff is also advertised, but foreign stuff is not, because the source has to be the IAF rather than OEM, with the exception of already known stuff. We have been getting images of weapons integration of DRDO's weapons, but we don't see the same from Israel for Rampage.

For example, we don't know the full specs of the modifications on Rafale. We don't even know if the new antenna under the engine is L band or Ku/K band. We only have a Dassault-released image of that antenna, and we are speculating it's the latter. Similarly, we have only a French image of an Indian variant of Rafale with Meteor.

But this big reveal about Sindoor came as a surprise to all defense watchers.

This is how we got to know Meteors were operationally deployed during Sindoor. Along with everything else that was deployed/used during Sindoor. Killed that silly assertion that IAF did not have Meteors.
 
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As I have said here multiple times, Su-57 order is going to be split in two-parts: First order of 40-60 jets "off-the-shelf" directly from Russia. This would be single-seat standard one with primarily Russian avionics(Radar, IRST, EW etc). Then there is going to be an MKIsed version featuring tandem 2 seats, our own radar, IRST, EW, MCs etc., along with AL-51F1 or Item 177 engines. This MKIsed version will only be available post 2030 and will be locally manufactured at HAL Nashik plant. The first order of 40(to 60) jets is supposed to be delivered till 2030. Post that local manufacturing of 100(to 140) jets will begin from 2030 right upto 2035.

That's the plan but no "official" contract is signed yet as the terms, conditions, costs & timelines are still getting seriously discussed along with TOT, IP ownership and source-code issues. When the contract will get signed? Nothing is set in stone but hopefully before March 2027.

F-35 needs India to sell its soul and sovereignty to the devil and we'll just not do that. Period.
Why needed 2 seater if 1 seater can do the job ??

Is 2 seater mki better than rafale ?

Ifk but in era of automation, who still desires for seperate wso ?
 
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Why needed 2 seater if 1 seater can do the job ??
For MUM-T, a second pilot/WSO is considered better than just relying on AI.
Is 2 seater mki better than rafale ?
Rafale? Lol. Even good ol' MKI is better than Rafale. Read @vstol Jockey's assessment and inside story of last year's skirmish and you shall know. Su-57 is better than every other plane today except future 6th gen jets.
Ifk but in era of automation, who still desires for seperate wso ?
IAF;)
 
For MUM-T, a second pilot/WSO is considered better than just relying on AI.

Rafale? Lol. Even good ol' MKI is better than Rafale. Read @vstol Jockey's assessment and inside story of last year's skirmish and you shall know. Su-57 is better than every other plane today except future 6th gen jets.

IAF;)
i love how you have more confidence in the su57 than the russians themselves. Until anything is put to an actual conflict with insertions rather than long range striking using cruise missiles we dont know shite.
the su57 will have an inferior radar and worse stealth shaping because its meant to be long range is is meant to have good frontal RCS since it operates from a defensive envelope. Just like the j20. the F22 and F35 have muh better all aspect as they're meant to operate closer to enemy AD(weaker nations AD). They wont the same way in a actual proper large scale interconnected AD.
 
i love how you have more confidence in the su57 than the russians themselves. Until anything is put to an actual conflict with insertions rather than long range striking using cruise missiles we dont know shite.
the su57 will have an inferior radar and worse stealth shaping because its meant to be long range is is meant to have good frontal RCS since it operates from a defensive envelope. Just like the j20. the F22 and F35 have muh better all aspect as they're meant to operate closer to enemy AD(weaker nations AD). They wont the same way in a actual proper large scale interconnected AD.
None of the stealth fighters with vertical tails, i.e., 5th gen fighters would be able to penetrate advance IADS on their own. That's why they need unmanned tailless stealth-bombers to do the job(as part of MUM-T).

Su-57 is good enough to kill J-20 and J-35 along with fighting J-36 & J-50 behind our IADS cover. That's what matter to us. Everything else is irrelevant.
 
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None of the stealth fighters with vertical tails, i.e., 5th gen fighters would be able to penetrate advance IADS on their own. That's why they need unmanned tailless stealth-bombers to do the job(as part of MUM-T).

Su-57 is good enough to kill J-20 and J-35 along with fighting J-36 & J-50 behind our IADS cover. That's what matter to us. Everything else is irrelevant.
that is fine, its not going to be able to penetrate any modern antistealth defense although tbf no 5th gen fighter can truly do this anymore anyway unless mass SEAD happens first.
 
Why are you so adamant of Su 57

The AL 51 is not even ready , Su 75 Checkmate the F-35 rival is nowhere seen.

Many parts in Su 57 and S400 were from West and East Asia which have been choked since 2014.

I don't see Su 57 anything better than Su 30 replacements

Calling Su 30 better than Rafale is again comparing a HCA with MCA , Rafale has better RCS and better in Himalayas therefore EF Typhoon and Rafale won MMRCA.

Not to forget Snecma engine has 90 % availability rate compared to 60 % of AL31
None of the stealth fighters with vertical tails, i.e., 5th gen fighters would be able to penetrate advance IADS on their own. That's why they need unmanned tailless stealth-bombers to do the job(as part of MUM-T).

Su-57 is good enough to kill J-20 and J-35 along with fighting J-36 & J-50 behind our IADS cover. That's what matter to us. Everything else is irrelevant.
 
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Why are you so adamant of Su 57
Because it's our "ONLY" counter to PAF's J-35AE fleet.
The AL 51 is not even ready , Su 75 Checkmate the F-35 rival is nowhere seen.
AL-41F1 will be later swapped by Item 177 in due time. Su-57, as it is, is good enough to kill J-20 & J-35A. That's what matter to us now.
Many parts in Su 57 and S400 were from West and East Asia which have been choked since 2014.
Lol.
I don't see Su 57 anything better than Su 30 replacements
Lolol.
Calling Su 30 better than Rafale is again comparing a HCA with MCA , Rafale has better RCS and better in Himalayas therefore EF Typhoon and Rafale won MMRCA.
Read @vstol Jockey's comment, then come back to me.
Not to forget Snecma engine has 90 % availability rate compared to 60 % of AL31
Last year's skirmish proved that MKI, BrahMos and S-400, i.e., three weapons/systems of Russian origin were the real game-changers. That's why we decided to procure Su-57 after the Ops.