It will still arrive before F5 
If it was important to them, they could have delayed their order
If it was important to them, they could have delayed their order
Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion
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5 Reasons The United States Navy Continues To Operate The F/A-18 Super Hornet
The US Navy continues to operate the
Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet as its workhorse strike fighter because it remains the most cost-effective and operationally rugged platform of the carrier air wing. While the Lockheed Martin F-35C Lightning II provides high-end stealth and sensor capabilities at the tip of the spear, the Super Hornet provides the mass, payload, and reliability necessary to sustain high-tempo global operations.The Super Hornet is a proven, reliable airframe with an established global logistics chain. It can generate more repeat sorties per day than the maintenance-intensive fifth-generation F-35C, which is still reaching full operational capacity. Operating a Super Hornet is significantly less expensive per flight hour than a Joint Strike Fighter, aka F-35C. Maintaining a mix of 4.5 and 5th-Gen aircraft allows the Navy to sustain a larger fleet within a manageable budget.
The Navy’s Air Wing of the Future will eventually rely on the 5th-Gen F-35C and 6th-Gen F/A-XX as digitally networked air wing 'quarterbacks' to find targets while remaining invisible. At least for the next decade until then, the Super Hornet acts as the heavy hitter that follows through to deliver massed firepower.
Persistent Presence To Project Power And Protect The Boat
The Super Hornet Fleet's Reliable 80% Readiness
The Super Hornet, or Rhino as it is often called, has a distinct advantage over its newer counterpart, the F-35, in staying power over the battlespace. Thanks to less frequent maintenance intervals and lower total operating costs, the F/A-18 provides a more readily available platform to orbit the front line for close-air-support on demand or sit on a CAP station at sea to defend the boat.
Fat Amy, as the F-35 is nicknamed, can fly the same mission but at greater cost and higher wear and tear owing to its more 'exquisite' and delicate systems. That means it is better served only flying such missions when the threat level is at its highest and once enemy air defense has been softened up, the Rhino is better suited to the task. At that stage in an air campaign, the F-35s would be pushed behind enemy lines to designate targets for standoff strikes as the digital node of the air wing.
Designed for the harsh maritime environment, the Super Hornet's established parts supply chain and ease of repair allow it to generate more repeat sorties per day. The Rhino has sustained approximately 80% readiness over the last few years, whereas, since the JSF was introduced, it has struggled to maintain a 50% availability rate. According to the Congressional Budget Office, due to the extraordinary demands of carrier operations, the F-35C airframes have sometimes fallen below a 10% full mission capability level.
The Carrier Strike Group's Missile Truck
Over 17,000 Pounds Of Rhino Firepower
Although the F-35C can go into what is known as 'beast mode' by mounting ordnance on external hardpoints, this compromises its stealth profile, which is one of the most important elements of the jet's design. Meanwhile, the Super Hornet can carry over 17,000 pounds of ordnance on 11 hard points. This makes it both a highly effective CAS platform and a heavily armed, beyond-visual-range striker in air-to-air combat against near-peer adversaries.
To remain invisible to radar, the F-35C typically carries only four AIM-120 AMRAAMs internally. Even with the Sidekick upgrade, this only increases to six. A single Super Hornet can carry 10 or more air-to-air missiles. Add to that, many of the Navy's most powerful long-range weapons are physically too large to fit inside the F-35C's internal bays, like the AIM-174B Gunslinger and LRASM or JASSM.
Being a 'missile truck' also requires being able to return to the carrier, re-arm, and launch again quickly. This is also an area where the Rhino is better for the job. In a prolonged conflict, the ability to generate more sorties per day allows the Navy to sustain a volume of fire that Fat Amy cannot currently match.
The Navy employs these jets as a team where the JSF acts as the spotter and the Super Hornet acts as the shooter. The F-35C uses its stealth to penetrate deep into enemy territory to identify targets without being seen. The Super Hornet then launches its massive rack of missiles at the target based on the F-35's data, never needing to turn on its own position-revealing radar.
The Two-Seat Operations Specialist Of The Fleet
Two Officers Are Better Than One
While the F-35C Lightning II uses automation and sensor fusion to reduce pilot workload, certain tactical roles still require human-in-the-loop coordination that a single person cannot execute as effectively. The two-seat F/A-18F Super Hornet provides a critical second set of eyes and 'a second brain' thanks to the Naval Flight Officer in the back seat. The two-crew team allows the platform to excel in high-workload mission sets where a single-seat pilot can be overwhelmed, even with Artificial Intelligence along to help.
In the fighter community, the backseater is referred to as the Weapons Systems Officer and handles radar mechanics, target prioritization, and datalink management, as well as other tasks. This is specifically valuable in the Forward Air Control mission, where the aircrew of the Strike Fighter must manage both a complex air and ground picture to provide bombs on target when called upon by troops on the ground. Managing a complex close air support environment while flying is extremely taxing for a single pilot, even with advanced sensors.
Another area where it is very valuable to have a two-seat fighter jet in the Navy is when operating against near-peer adversaries and the use of standoff munitions is more imperative against both air and surface targets, as USNI wrote. Certain standoff weapons, such as the SLAM-ER, require manual steering or target validation during the terminal phase of flight. A dedicated WSO can manually control a sensor pod or a missile's guidance while the pilot maintains a focus on the wider battlespace picture.
Affordable Mass For The Air Wing
A Strike Fighter For Half The Price Of Stealth
While it is true that the F-35A can cost as little as $80 million, the Navy's F-35C variant is a special heavy-duty model that is produced in far lower numbers and has a price tag between $100 million and $120 million. In contrast, the Super Hornet price tag is between $66 million and $75 million. On top of that, the F/A-18 costs between $24,000 and $30,000 per flight hour, whereas the JSF costs between $36,000 and $44,000.
Not only is the Super Hornet tens of millions of dollars cheaper to purchase, but the cost to operate a squadron is tens of millions of dollars per year cheaper. That equates to a larger budget for munitions, fuel, parts, training, or anything else that a unit could need. Ultimately, Fat Amy is reserved for the most intensive missions and the Super Hornet is the workhorse that fulfills routine operations where the cost of wear and tear on a stealth fighter is wasted.
In a major conflict, fielding a fleet of several hundred JSFs would be so cost-intensive and demand such a burdensome logistical support chain that it is essentially untenable even for the world's largest and most powerful navy. On the other hand, the Hornet is proven and ruggedized so that it is not only less expensive, but it breaks less often, too. Overall, the combined qualities of each aircraft are necessary for the Navy to accomplish 'any mission at any time.'
Buddy Tankers For All Tailhook Jets
1,920 Gallons Of Fuel On The Fly
The Super Hornet’s ability to act as a 'Buddy Tanker' is a unique and vital mission set that the F-35C cannot perform. While the F-35C is designed to be a receiver of fuel to maintain its stealth profile, the Rhino is equipped to be a tanker. It can transfer thousands of pounds of fuel to other jets in midair, providing organic refueling for the entire carrier air wing.
The Super Hornet does this by carrying an external Aerial Refueling Store, or Buddy Store, pod on its centerline hardpoint. This pod contains a hose-and-drogue system and its own fuel pumps. A Super Hornet in a tanker configuration can carry four external 480-gallon fuel tanks plus the ARS pod.
Super Hornets launch specifically to orbit near the carrier, providing a safety net for F-35Cs, F/A-18s, or even the upcoming MQ-25 Stingray drone when they are returning with low fuel or on difficult night landings. Rhinos can also fly mission tanking sorties, accompanying a strike group partway to a target, topping them off, and then returning to the ship. This allows the other aircraft to penetrate deep into enemy territory with full internal tanks.
This complements the new high-low air wing division between stealth and non-stealth fighter jets. By having the non-stealthy Super Hornet carry the heavy, drag-inducing refueling pods, the F-35C can remain clean and stealthy for its mission. Even when the MQ-25 becomes fully operational, the Rhino will be a complementary buddy tanker as backup.
The Navy is currently introducing the MQ-25 Stingray drone to take over this role, but until the MQ-25 is fully operational across the fleet, the Super Hornet remains the only aircraft on the flight deck capable of this mission.
Australia initially planned to retire its 24 F/A-18F Super Hornets around 2027, but the RAAF later indicated it would keep them at least until 2030, and then more likely until the mid-2030s. ASPI explained this as early as 2023, and in January 2024, Canberra signed a 600 million AUD support/upgrade contract to extend the service life of the Super Hornets and Growlers until 2030. Analyses from 2026 even suggest an extension to 2040 for the F/A-18E/F and EA-18G.
Australia is not ordering any more; it is placing a significant political bet on the F-35A, the Growler, long-range missiles, drones like the Ghost Bat, and the future strike system. And the Super Hornet remains perceived as an extended interim capability, not as the structural future of the Australian fighter force.
They keep them because they need them, but they don't see them as a future focus. This makes sense for Australia. Their main strategic problem isn't exactly the same as the US Navy's.
They don't have a flight deck to defend, they don't have the same carrier-based "workhorse" culture, they've already invested heavily in the F-35A, and they think more in terms of long-range strike, out-of-bounds effects, missiles, and human-machine cooperation in the Indo-Pacific.
The Australians aren't getting rid of the Super Hornet because it's bad. They're keeping it longer than planned because they can't do without it immediately. But they primarily see it as a useful capability to extend, not as the core of their future air power model.
Even a country heavily invested in the F-35 cannot completely do without a more robust and more readily available aircraft.
Australia is not ordering any more; it is placing a significant political bet on the F-35A, the Growler, long-range missiles, drones like the Ghost Bat, and the future strike system. And the Super Hornet remains perceived as an extended interim capability, not as the structural future of the Australian fighter force.
They keep them because they need them, but they don't see them as a future focus. This makes sense for Australia. Their main strategic problem isn't exactly the same as the US Navy's.
They don't have a flight deck to defend, they don't have the same carrier-based "workhorse" culture, they've already invested heavily in the F-35A, and they think more in terms of long-range strike, out-of-bounds effects, missiles, and human-machine cooperation in the Indo-Pacific.
The Australians aren't getting rid of the Super Hornet because it's bad. They're keeping it longer than planned because they can't do without it immediately. But they primarily see it as a useful capability to extend, not as the core of their future air power model.
Even a country heavily invested in the F-35 cannot completely do without a more robust and more readily available aircraft.
You don't often see a fluff piece for the Super Hornet and Growler, The Block lll update the RAAF is doing, is exceptional
Just google AI, but there is more data out there
The RAAF intends to retire them late 2030, early 2040, The same or similar to the USN, Possibly for one of the 6th gen GCAP, F-47, F/A-XX , There is even talk of the B-21
Super Hornet doesn't rate against the RAAF F-35A, it's 4,5gen and isn't compared by the RAAF, I don't see the fascination of journalists to do so
Just google AI, but there is more data out there
- Advanced Cockpit System (ACS): The cockpit features a large, 10-inch by 19-inch (25 cm x 48 cm) touch-screen display that provides advanced situational awareness, allowing pilots to process more data faster.
- Networked Processing & Data Links: The aircraft is equipped with a new Distributed Targeting Processor-Networked (DTP-N) and Tactical Targeting Network Technology (TTNT) radio, facilitating faster data sharing, improved sensor fusion, and enhanced, secure networking with other assets like the E-2 Hawkeye.
- Reduced Radar Cross-Section: The Block III incorporates physical changes and special radar-absorbent coatings designed to reduce the aircraft's radar signature, enhancing survivability in contested environments, although it is not a stealth aircraft.
- Extended Service Life (SLM): The Block III upgrades are combined with a service-life modification (SLM) that extends the airframe’s life from 6,000 to 10,000 flight hours, significantly reducing maintenance downtime and long-term costs.
The RAAF intends to retire them late 2030, early 2040, The same or similar to the USN, Possibly for one of the 6th gen GCAP, F-47, F/A-XX , There is even talk of the B-21
Super Hornet doesn't rate against the RAAF F-35A, it's 4,5gen and isn't compared by the RAAF, I don't see the fascination of journalists to do so
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It will still arrive before F5
If it was important to them, they could have delayed their order
Finland? The F4 competed for the order.
The rafale F5 is related to the last page about the Block 4 delay, It will still be before the F5
We have/are getting UK sub/ships and JP ships and have close defence agreements, So I wouldn't take GCAP off of the table, I think the specs would be the deciding factor
It's already 2031.
Ships and subs are fine, they can carry the hardware necessary for integration with all that extra space. Aircraft have limited space and power, so non-American jets come with integration issues with American jets.
Finland: F-35 Block-4 upgrade late and expensive
15. April 2026Finland’s Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning IIs are currently being delivered. In February, the first Finnish Air Force pilot contingent started the theoretical and simulator part of the F-35 basic training at Eglin Air Force Base in Florida. The first training contingent of maintenance personnel has already completed this training phase. Further Finnish Air Force personnel who are to complete the F-35 training will travel to the USA in the course of the year.
On January 20, the first F-35A Lightning II of the Finnish Air Force (FINAF) landed at Ebbing Air National Guard Base in Fort Smith, Arkansas. Over the next two years, around 20 FINAF pilots will undergo extensive training there. The program is expected to be completed in February 2028. The first F-35A is scheduled to arrive in Finland as early as fall 2026.
However, the aircraft will be delivered with fewer capabilities than originally agreed in Finland’s procurement contract. In an interview with the Finnish daily Helsingin Sanomat, Henrik Elo, head of the Finnish F-35 programme, explained the problem: “Finland’s new F-35A Lightning II fighters will be delivered with fewer capabilities than originally agreed in the country’s procurement contract, and the Finnish Air Force will have to carry out significant modernizations at its own expense.”
The problems are related to the implementation of Technology Refresh 3 (TR-3). The externally invisible changes concern a completely new computing core, more memory and improved cockpit displays. Up to 25 times faster computing power provides the basis for the upcoming Block 4 package.
This will also include a new AESA radar and an improved Distributed Aperture System (DAS). It also includes an expanded range of weapons, improvements to electronic warfare and changes to the propulsion system. The problem: the program was launched in 2019 and the first deliveries were planned from 2026. The original estimate of nine billion euros rose to 14 billion euros – an increase of 55 percent.
In September 2025, the US Government Accountability Office (GAO) estimated that Block 4 would not be completed until 2031 at the earliest, a delay of five years from the original schedule.
However, from today’s perspective, there will still be far greater delays. This is because the new capabilities of Block 4 require more electrical power and cooling capacity than the current Pratt & Whitney F135 engine can deliver. The original plan to develop a completely new engine (adaptive F135 ECU engine) was rejected as too expensive. A modernization of the engine core is now on the agenda. However, production will not start before 2031.
The US Department of Defense has therefore refocused Block 4. Many of the more than 75 planned upgrades have been canceled or postponed in order to meet the new deadline of 2031.
Finland and other countries are feeling the consequences of these delays. They will have to bear the entire cost of modernizing the delivered F-35s themselves. According to Henrik Elo in Helsingin Sanomat, these expenses are to be covered from the existing project budget and current operating funds, without compensation from the manufacturer. The overlapping modernization measures will extend over years, place a permanent financial and logistical burden on the air force and reduce the number of operational aircraft. Finland planned for full operational readiness in 2030.
Things must be bad for FCAS, you seem to be compensating
UAE pulled out of F5
you just repost stories now, I guess I'll repost my previous answer
UAE pulled out of F5
you just repost stories now, I guess I'll repost my previous answer
It will still arrive before F5
If it was important to them, they could have delayed their order
You can always tell when France is having a bad day, @Picdelamirand-oil comes here and bags out the F-35
Mediators have failed to resolve a dispute between the companies involved in the Franco-German FCAS fighter jet project,
The German mediator would conclude that building a joint fighter jet, once a key pillar of the project, was no longer feasible.
Germany and France were likely to abandon development of the joint piloted jet
Stay tuned for this response
en.wikipedia.org
Driven by hunger, a fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine but was unable to, although he leaped with all his strength. As he went away, the fox remarked "Oh, you aren't even ripe yet! I don't need any sour grapes." People who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain would do well to apply this story to themselves
Mediation fails in dispute over Franco-German fighter jet,
Mediators have failed to resolve a dispute between the companies involved in the Franco-German FCAS fighter jet project,
The German mediator would conclude that building a joint fighter jet, once a key pillar of the project, was no longer feasible.
Germany and France were likely to abandon development of the joint piloted jet
Stay tuned for this response
The Fox and the Grapes - Wikipedia
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This isn't a bad day at all; we've been hoping for this failure for years. The SCAF was a political project of Macron, who swears only by Europe; it has no technical or operational sense. Now that the failure is a given, we can develop the entire 6th generation environment: Cloud, Drone, cyber, connectivity, for the Rafale F5, and in parallel, the NGF, which will connect to an already mature environment when it's ready. This will be faster, cheaper, and can be implemented for all Rafale users.You can always tell when France is having a bad day, @Picdelamirand-oil comes here and bags out the F-35
Mediation fails in dispute over Franco-German fighter jet,
Mediators have failed to resolve a dispute between the companies involved in the Franco-German FCAS fighter jet project,
The German mediator would conclude that building a joint fighter jet, once a key pillar of the project, was no longer feasible.
Germany and France were likely to abandon development of the joint piloted jet
Stay tuned for this response
Driven by hunger, a fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine but was unable to, although he leaped with all his strength. As he went away, the fox remarked "Oh, you aren't even ripe yet! I don't need any sour grapes." People who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain would do well to apply this story to themselvesThe Fox and the Grapes - Wikipedia
I said in my last post, that you will sing a song about sour grapes and you didn't want it anyways
That's normal; I've been saying this here for several years now.
I said in my last post, that you will sing a song about sour grapes and you didn't want it anyways
You can always tell when France is having a bad day, @Picdelamirand-oil comes here and bags out the F-35
Mediation fails in dispute over Franco-German fighter jet,
Mediators have failed to resolve a dispute between the companies involved in the Franco-German FCAS fighter jet project,
The German mediator would conclude that building a joint fighter jet, once a key pillar of the project, was no longer feasible.
Germany and France were likely to abandon development of the joint piloted jet
Stay tuned for this response
Driven by hunger, a fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine but was unable to, although he leaped with all his strength. As he went away, the fox remarked "Oh, you aren't even ripe yet! I don't need any sour grapes." People who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain would do well to apply this story to themselvesThe Fox and the Grapes - Wikipedia
Don't you know Picdel and Dassault insiders were not supportive of SCAF in the first place?
Picdel was always of the opinion that India would be a better partner for SCAF. While I was personally opposed due to workshare and funding reasons, the IAF seems to be agreeing with Picdel.
That's normal; I've been saying this here for several years now.
Too bad a phase 2 wasn't funded earlier, like Trappier wanted. Free demonstrator.
Will the engine pillar go through though?
Look at my 2023 post; I said the failure of the SCAF (Future Combat Air System) would be announced at the end of Phase 1B, and that's exactly what happened. Macron dragged out the final decision because it was his pet project, and he'd had a lot of setbacks lately, but it wasn't Dassault's intention to launch a Phase 2 in cooperation with Airbus, which wasn't up to their standards. As for the Rafale A prototype, Dassault was nine months ahead of schedule. I'm not worried about the deadlines; Dassault has 9 billion in cash. They're working on their own funds, without saying so, but they present their projects as if they hadn't worked at all, which means the project is still being paid for by the state. Dassault simply advanced the money to avoid wasting time. Regarding the engine, the joint venture is continuing for now, but in my opinion, Safran will break off the partnership and develop the engine on its own.
An example of how Dassault's expertise is recognized in Europe:
European Defence Fund: Dassault Aviation launches, at the industrial level, the EICACS* project, a European initiative for the standardization of collaborative air combat
Dassault Aviation hosted today at its Saint-Cloud headquarters (France), the kick-off meeting of the EICACS project (European Initiative for Collaborative Air Combat Standardization) with its European industrial and research partners.
The European Union provides €75 million for this project, which is preparing the future interoperability standards for European combat aircraft
Dassault Aviation is coordinating the work of a consortium of 37 industrial and research partners from 11 European countries(Saint-Cloud, France, February 3, 2023) – Dassault Aviation hosted today at its Saint-Cloud headquarters (France), the kick-off meeting of the EICACS project (European Initiative for Collaborative Air Combat Standardization) with its European industrial and research partners.
The grant contract, awarded by the European Commission on 19 December 2022, designates Dassault Aviation, recognized for its ability to manage complex cooperative programmes, as the coordinator of this study project, which brings together 37 industrial partners and research organizations from 11 European Union countries.Supported by the European Union to the tune of 75 M€ within the framework of the 2021 programme of the European Defence Fund (EDF), this project aims to define, within a European framework, the future interoperability standards for collaborative air combat.
It will strengthen the ability of European air forces to fulfill their missions ever more effectively and to act in coalitions involving both manned and unmanned systems, future air combat systems and existing platforms, as well as their upgrades.
Dassault Aviation is delighted with the launch of this three-year study works, which brings together the entire European combat aeronautics industry, as well as various research organizations, around a project that is crucial for the European Union’s air forces.
European Defence Fund: Dassault Aviation launches, at the industrial level, the EICACS* project, a European initiative for the standardization of collaborative air combat
Dassault Aviation hosted today at its Saint-Cloud headquarters (France), the kick-off meeting of the EICACS project (European Initiative for Collaborative Air Combat Standardization) with its European industrial and research partners.
The European Union provides €75 million for this project, which is preparing the future interoperability standards for European combat aircraft
Dassault Aviation is coordinating the work of a consortium of 37 industrial and research partners from 11 European countries(Saint-Cloud, France, February 3, 2023) – Dassault Aviation hosted today at its Saint-Cloud headquarters (France), the kick-off meeting of the EICACS project (European Initiative for Collaborative Air Combat Standardization) with its European industrial and research partners.
The grant contract, awarded by the European Commission on 19 December 2022, designates Dassault Aviation, recognized for its ability to manage complex cooperative programmes, as the coordinator of this study project, which brings together 37 industrial partners and research organizations from 11 European Union countries.Supported by the European Union to the tune of 75 M€ within the framework of the 2021 programme of the European Defence Fund (EDF), this project aims to define, within a European framework, the future interoperability standards for collaborative air combat.
It will strengthen the ability of European air forces to fulfill their missions ever more effectively and to act in coalitions involving both manned and unmanned systems, future air combat systems and existing platforms, as well as their upgrades.
Dassault Aviation is delighted with the launch of this three-year study works, which brings together the entire European combat aeronautics industry, as well as various research organizations, around a project that is crucial for the European Union’s air forces.