HAL Indian Multirole Helicopter (IMRH) : Updates & Discussions

[Chain Smoker]

This BJP led government had given 11+ years to HAL. Have they deliver anything meaning full in last 12 years no. Their own product ALH Mk3 was gtounded for an year, had IAF & IA version was not inducted in large numbers thatbalso could have grounded. Where is the HAL HTSE 1200 engine that promised to develop? Its no where.


FYI HAL seeking 8 years to complete 84 MKI upgrades. Why would government support such PSU who is handling the critical area endlessly? Let IMRH goes to the pvt sector.

The only area they done some meaningfull work was the LCH project, they provided few examples to IAF in 2020 for operational deployment against China .

Private sector is simply screwdriving foreign helicopters with no meaningful local contribution neither they are absorbing anything.

You have to beg foreign OEM for spare parts & pay them exorbitant costs for carrying out any modifications.

I will prefer IDDM helicopter over imports any day.

 

[Hydra]

Private sector is simply screwdriving foreign helicopters with no meaningful local contribution neither they are absorbing anything.

You have to beg foreign OEM for spare parts & pay them exorbitant costs for carrying out any modifications.

I will prefer IDDM helicopter over imports any day.

R&D is the job of DRDO and its labs, and HAL/PVT sector's job is to absorb that developed technology and convert in to industrial product. Basically HAL was doing screedrivergiri in most cases in yesteryears with an exception of ALH.

 

[Chain Smoker]

When other countries like roachistan & south Korea are developing their own helicopters we on the other hand are screwing our own projects.

We must not waste our capabilities that we have developed after decades of investment & efforts.

Screwdrivigiri will take us back in the time.

 

[Hydra]

You have to beg foreign OEM for spare parts & pay them exorbitant costs for carrying out any modifications.

Same is the case with HAL, they were begging GE engines.

I will prefer IDDM helicopter over imports any day.

HAL had a confirmed order of LUH (200 or so). Signed contract for LCH. If i am not wrong, MI17 replacing also will be with a desi product.

 

[Subgradewalker]

When other countries like roachistan & south Korea are developing their own helicopters we on the other hand are screwing our own projects.

We must not waste our capabilities that we have developed after decades of investment & efforts.

Screwdrivigiri will take us back in the time.

Private sector is simply screwdriving foreign helicopters with no meaningful local contribution neither they are absorbing anything.

You have to beg foreign OEM for spare parts & pay them exorbitant costs for carrying out any modifications.

I will prefer IDDM helicopter over imports any day.

Can you point out any bill or policy which bans pvt companies from developing an indigineous Helicopters?

Take us back in time? That would entail that we have a good helicopter ecosystem and now all of a sudden pvt players will do screwdrivergiri... Guess what? Even that was a far fetched dream for pvt industry " back in time".

No one here denies the importance of investing in science and scientists. But to picture the current scenario as regression has no basis in reality.

As for making conclusions over what is being absorbed and what not.. you can't be justifying HAL with this statement, right? A pvt industry with not even a decade of functioning JVs vs the posterboy of DPSU's broken mechanism?

Btw, GOI hasn't stopped HAL from developing helicopters either. There are still pending work orders, fixing issues of other products that HAL needs to complete. If HAL can develop the copters and bid, GOI hardly has the room to ignore that bid. But it hasn't.

Even the DAP is improving in correct direction step by step. Otherwise, if they make it make it mandatory for product to be 100% indigenously developed today.. it won't build capability overnight. Pvt sector will not be forced to invest in R&D, instead they will pull back the half step and go "back in time" of no investment.

All we can hope is that pvt players will taste the blood through JV and realise that much more money can be made by ending dependency.

If that doesn't work.. our hope will hinge on Idex, DST etc to groom one.

 

[Ashwin]

When other countries like roachistan & south Korea are developing their own helicopters we on the other hand are screwing our own projects.

We must not waste our capabilities that we have developed after decades of investment & efforts.

Screwdrivigiri will take us back in the time.

Lets not overdo this.

We are far ahead of South Korea in helicopter development. They embraced Screwdrivergiri. They have been producing MD 500 and Blackhawk for five decades, yet didn't invest in indigenous design.

Their first attempt of helicopter development is KUH‑1 Surion. Which is basically a modified Eurocopter AS332 Super Puma. Even today they still need help of Airbus on every new version development because they dont have any design expertise.

HAL is fully capable of designing upto 13ton helicopter because of decades of investment in iterative development. We were able to translate from a licensed producer to design and development.

 

[lmaoxd]

see there is a big difference btw SK and us. They're practically a colony controlled by their companies, we're not.
They've the full force of the US behind them because they've been bending down to the US for decades and tbf to them thats all they can do. Theyre a small population, the majority of whom live near the border and are under direct threat to artillery from the NK side. They need to Us to protect them from China.

there is a clear difference.

Lets not overdo this.

We are far ahead of South Korea in helicopter development. They embraced Screwdrivergiri. They have been producing MD 500 and Blackhawk for five decades, yet didn't invest in indigenous design.

Their first attempt of helicopter development is KUH‑1 Surion. Which is basically a modified Eurocopter AS332 Super Puma. Even today they still need help of Airbus on every new version development because they dont have any design expertise.

HAL is fully capable of designing upto 13ton helicopter because of decades of investment in iterative development. We were able to translate from a licensed producer to design and development.

 

[padira]

The army variant of the IMRH will have a gross weight of 13t, while the navy variant’s gross weight will be 12.5t. In its utility configuration, the IMRH will seat 24 troops, which can increase to 36 in a high-density configuration.

Nath says the IMRH will exceed the performance specifications of Mi-17 variants in every respect, including speed and payload. HAL has retained the same rotor dimensions for the five-bladed rotor as the Mi-171V.

The IMRH is to have a service ceiling of 21,300ft, a maximum cruise speed of 145kt (270km/h), an endurance of 3h and carry a 4,000kg (8,820lb) payload.

The airframer will move to a five-bladed articulated rotor for the IMRH as opposed to the hinge-less rotor design for the Dhruv and Light Combat Helicopter.

The navy has asked for auto-folding blades, but HAL is not too keen on this as it will add a 200kg weight penalty along with reliability constraints.

A scale model of the IMRH army variant is on display at HAL’s Aero India stand. It is fitted with stub-wings mounting rocket and gun pods, a chin-mounted electro-optical/infrared sensor, and a defensive aids suite. Compared with the full-sized mock-up first displayed in 2017, HAL has moved the transmission in front of the engine.

Courtsey: flightglobal.com

 

[calutronking]

What is the level of delusion that thinks India has anywhere close to the R&D capacity or manufacturing capacity close to S.Korea? They are now one of the largest exporters of defense platforms in both land and air domains, domestically developed platforms. They will also begin to dominate in the air domain over the next decade. I'm not even going to start on their commercial industrial capabilities a la Samsung, Hyundai, or other industrial giants.

If the South Koreans are forming partnerships with foreign companies it's because they are prioritizing not because they are incompetent. If today they decide to start a "IMRH" program, I have no doubt that they will have a superior product that uses entirely Korean developed parts right down to the transistors and composites well before we do. But they don't, because they know what's important to them and have an actual plan.

 

[babablacksheep]

What is the level of delusion that thinks India has anywhere close to the R&D capacity or manufacturing capacity close to S.Korea? They are now one of the largest exporters of defense platforms in both land and air domains, domestically developed platforms. They will also begin to dominate in the air domain over the next decade. I'm not even going to start on their commercial industrial capabilities a la Samsung, Hyundai, or other industrial giants.

If the South Koreans are forming partnerships with foreign companies it's because they are prioritizing not because they are incompetent. If today they decide to start a "IMRH" program, I have no doubt that they will have a superior product that uses entirely Korean developed parts right down to the transistors and composites well before we do. But they don't, because they know what's important to them and have an actual plan.

Quite serious SK glazing going on.

 

[Ashwin]

What is the level of delusion that thinks India has anywhere close to the R&D capacity or manufacturing capacity close to S.Korea? They are now one of the largest exporters of defense platforms in both land and air domains, domestically developed platforms. They will also begin to dominate in the air domain over the next decade. I'm not even going to start on their commercial industrial capabilities a la Samsung, Hyundai, or other industrial giants.

If the South Koreans are forming partnerships with foreign companies it's because they are prioritizing not because they are incompetent. If today they decide to start a "IMRH" program, I have no doubt that they will have a superior product that uses entirely Korean developed parts right down to the transistors and composites well before we do. But they don't, because they know what's important to them and have an actual plan.

Do NRIs lose basic comprehension skills when they hear anything good about India?

Was I comparing the overall R&D of India and South Korea? When did I use the word "incompetent"?. I was very specific about helicopters. The extremely corrupt chaebols you mentioned are not involved in helicopter development. They pay Europeans for design assistance. Without investing in research and development for new decades, they will not magically become better than India. They have to make an attempt first, which they have not done yet.

Also, South Korea is not a major defense exporter in the air domain. They only export success is KAI T-50 advanced trainer. It was designed by Lockheed Martin not KAI. You cant even compare it with a proper fighter like LCA. ADA perfected quadruplex digital FBW two decades ago while South Koreans were importing triple-redundant FBW from the US. KF-21 is yet to mature to call it an export success. We are not a sizeable defense exporter because we never prioritized it before.

I'm not even going to compare the Indian space industry. That might be taking it too far and could hurt your feelings.

 

[RationalGuy]

What is the level of delusion that thinks India has anywhere close to the R&D capacity or manufacturing capacity close to S.Korea? They are now one of the largest exporters of defense platforms in both land and air domains, domestically developed platforms. They will also begin to dominate in the air domain over the next decade. I'm not even going to start on their commercial industrial capabilities a la Samsung, Hyundai, or other industrial giants.

If the South Koreans are forming partnerships with foreign companies it's because they are prioritizing not because they are incompetent. If today they decide to start a "IMRH" program, I have no doubt that they will have a superior product that uses entirely Korean developed parts right down to the transistors and composites well before we do. But they don't, because they know what's important to them and have an actual plan.

India landed rovers on the moon sent probes to Mars built nuclear subs which can push out 20 ton SLBMs which can travel 3,500 KM in a quasi ballistic trajectory and it destroyed a satellite moving at 7 km/sec with pin point accuracy. Things which your KoREa wont achieve even 50 years from now. And we did the above with 0 help.

But yea the chinks assemble ships phones and cars so theyre better than us sar theyre just choosing not to do it sar reeee.

An orangutan in an African forest has more thinking skills than you if you think mastery over ships and phones = mastery over helicopters and other aerospace products. Keep being a coolie in some gora company as @Ashwin said, coolies get brain overload when they think beyond their aukat

 

[RationalGuy]

Do NRIs lose basic comprehension skills when they hear anything good about India?

Was I comparing the overall R&D of India and South Korea? When did I use the word "incompetent"?. I was very specific about helicopters. The extremely corrupt chaebols you mentioned are not involved in helicopter development. They pay Europeans for design assistance. Without investing in research and development for new decades, they will not magically become better than India. They have to make an attempt first, which they have not done yet.

Also, South Korea is not a major defense exporter in the air domain. They only export success is KAI T-50 advanced trainer. It was designed by Lockheed Martin not KAI. You cant even compare it with a proper fighter like LCA. ADA perfected quadruplex digital FBW two decades ago while South Koreans were importing triple-redundant FBW from the US. KF-21 is yet to mature to call it an export success. We are not a sizeable defense exporter because we never prioritized it before.

I'm not even going to compare the Indian space industry. That might be taking it too far and could hurt your feelings.

That calutron ape is definitely deluded but be rest assured many NRIs including me are not.

 

[padira]

Back in march 2018 , we conducted a anti sat weapon test codenamed operation shakti. That was just a smokescreen. We have tested a interceptor that intercepts exo atmospheric nuclear ballastic missiles head on . Guess What? SKoreans lives in a constant threat from NKorean's nuké . Their hwasong series of ballastic missiles could potentially wipe out entore incheon and seoul . Why haven't seoul developed such a system . The answer lies in it's complexity . The system which we have developed had been developed by only 3 countries prior to us ; US, Israel and China (Russian system is a bit obsolete and different, though I beleive they may have caught up through S550 ) .
Few months ago I've seen a post from a pro turkish account bashing out korea's so called 5th gen kfx . He literally made a thread of how and what components of kfx are imported .
The below link is a prefect article to read

https://shorturl.at/2yZ7U

 

[babablacksheep]

Back in march 2018 , we conducted a anti sat weapon test codenamed operation shakti. That was just a smokescreen. We have tested a interceptor that intercepts exo atmospheric nuclear ballastic missiles head on . Guess What? SKoreans lives in a constant threat from NKorean's nuké . Their hwasong series of ballastic missiles could potentially wipe out entore incheon and seoul . Why haven't seoul developed such a system . The answer lies in it's complexity . The system which we have developed had been developed by only 3 countries prior to us ; US, Israel and China (Russian system is a bit obsolete and different, though I beleive they may have caught up through S550 ) .
Few months ago I've seen a post from a pro turkish account bashing out korea's so called 5th gen kfx . He literally made a thread of how and what components of kfx are imported .
The below link is a prefect article to read

https://shorturl.at/2yZ7U

Indeed, The satellite was at the altitude of 280-300km.
The orbital velocity at those altitude are mach 23-25.

 

[Ad 04 30]

Any update on IMRH beyond the engine development?


Is it the future uncertain like CATS, since Adani is offering AW helicopters?

 

[Ashwin]

Any update on IMRH beyond the engine development?


Is it the future uncertain like CATS, since Adani is offering AW helicopters?

There cannot be quarterly updates on such a long project. Internal funds were released last year. Therefore, based on the schedule, you will not hear about it for 2-3 years.

When you are bored, watch the video.

 

[spice]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2037482876288303347

 

[Ashwin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2037482876288303347

Uh?

Its saying MTOW, IMRH 12.5ton and DBMRH 11.25 ton.