Indian Indigenous Aero Engine Developments

Gautam said:
I could be wrong, but the only thing RR is known to be working on that Safran isn't (at least not publicly) is a 6th gen variable cycle engine. But then the RR variable cycle engine is meant for the Tempest/GCAP where Japan & Italy are partners. Japan's IHI & Italy's Avio are also involved with RR in the development of the GCAP's engine.

How does this development square with them? These 2 countries are "full members" of the GCAP, we are not. I can't imagine they would want to lose any workshare to us. Only way they will agree to this is if we join the GCAP, or if we have some proven tech/capability that is critical for this engine. Or maybe they desperately need funding. IDK.

Conversely, we are developing this 120-140 kN TF engine with Safran. That engine will go into the AMCA Mk2. A variant of that engine would probably go into the SCAF. Safran would eventually need to develop a variable cycle engine for the SCAF. So why not just combine 5th gen & 6th gen engines and pitch it for joint development.

5th gen engine with Safran, 6th gen with RR. Feels like we have stepped onto two boats at the same time. Let's see if we get some clarity.
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RR had offered us cooperation in the field if MT, a variant of high bypass engine for transport aircraft, and engine up to the thrust akin to what we seeing in F22 . Its basically more lucrative offer than the french offer.
 
With RR I feel we are working on achieving 404, 414 class engines. Since they are calling it as joint study maybe RR is consulting on filling the gaps. But again why not ask safran for consultation if that is the case, and is UK willing to go against US if it is actually consulting on 4th gen tech
Is IP part of the offer?
Hydra said:
RR had offered us cooperation in the field if MT, a variant of high bypass engine for transport aircraft, and engine up to the thrust akin to what we seeing in F22 . Its basically more lucrative offer than the french offer.
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IAF will need SU30 MKI replacement after 2040-45 time frame i guess. The new indo french engine won't be suitable for an aircraft like MKI.

We need an engine similar AL51 or F135 for that aircraft. Hope RR will be offering that variant. RR had already created F136 engine in past which was contested for F35 engine. Lets tap that expertise to create similar one in india
 
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Sudoroot127 said:
With RR I feel we are working on achieving 404, 414 class engines. Since they are calling it as joint study maybe RR is consulting on filling the gaps. But again why not ask safran for consultation if that is the case, and is UK willing to go against US if it is actually consulting on 4th gen tech
Is IP part of the offer?
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Its Redundant right? The french engine offer is also for F414 class, similar dimensions and thrust initially with room to uprate up to 120 kn.
 
I am being optimistic here but I think they are excepting lower trust variants based on Kaveri to be ready quicker than higher trust variant
 
Professor∆Baaz said:
It can be developed as VCE ready core that can evolve into adaptive architecture later
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VCE architecture is about dynamic bypass ratio, ability to increase or decrease the bypass ratio mid flight for either more efficiency or more thrust, VCE architecture can by put on modified 4th gen cores, 4.5th gen cores, 5th gen cores, 6th gen etc.





Hydra said:
The new indo french engine won't be suitable for an aircraft like MKI
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Indo-france JV engine is targeting 120-140kn, thrust wise good enough of a replacement for upgraded al-31FP, but its dimensions will be too small for su-30mki's engine bay in its original form.

The current Su-30MKI is powered by two Saturn AL-31FP afterburning low-bypass turbofan engines, with each engine providing a maximum thrust of 12,500 kgf (122kn)




The Saturn AL-41F1S (117S) engine, which powers the Su-35S produces a maximum afterburner thrust of approximately 142 kN, and allows s35 to super-cruise.
 
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jmaxwell_ said:
I hope as part of the National Aero Engine mission they still fund the completion of the KDE with the Brahmos afterburner for Tejas Mk1A MLU.
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Its not possible today to make GE F404-IN20 class engine from Kaveri core. But, It is possible to make 75kN with similar dimensions and weight. That should be the target. Validate it on LCA then offer it for any future advanced trainer that HAL is planning to make. It will be very similar to F404-GE-103 that USAF trainer T-7 uses.
 
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Sudoroot127 said:
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Technology to develop an analogue for F-404 exists in house. I believe that's being realised with the KED & AFB being fabricated by BAPL. The only missing piece in the puzzle are domestic testing facilities which hopefully get set up as a result of the JV with SAFRAN for testing & validation.

From there to an analogue of the F-414 is a matter of intent. If we successfully develop an analogue for the F-404 I don't see why we can't use the same core for enhanced development into a 100 KN + TF.

Likewise once the analogue for the F-404 is certified we need to launch a VCE program using this very engine.
 
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That's where the mfg ToT for F-414 & the forthcoming JV with SAFRAN comes into play. Add experience of HAL in mfg AL-31 to it . In sum total we should manage it once we've certified those TFs which itself should take a decade from now.
 
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