TBH EF is a better air to air platform than Rafale, bigger nose cone, better engine, better kinematics, the Tarus missile comes along with EF is considered to be better than storm Shadow, Better suited for meteor missile, Irist T on EF is the finest IR missile today and radar, i think they already have an aesa rada with EW capabilities.
MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Picdelamirand-oil
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Chinese are too focused on Taiwan to do a coordinated Op. It seems like the plan will be more or less the same. They will dump Pakistanis some of their tech and use them as an irritant. The Bangladesh scenario seems to be more of a US regime change than a Chinese one.
Looks like that's the case increasing IC content gradually but why we should have went for Typhoon ?
Typhoon over Rafale doens't make sense for us and it's choosen after rigorous testing on every parameter.
EF has 2 way datalink ability for meteor. Something that will be available with f4.2. But we need Netra's or atleast E-7 awacs. There is not much difference in weapons profile the only advantage with typhoon is it's ability to use American weapons like jdam, Jsow and amraams. The Rafales are limited to French weapons.
Astra mk2 needs to be mass produced and integrated on all indian platforms.
The other need is of Netras or E-7 or E-3 sentry being leased or procured for using the full potential of the rafale.
If this deal was signed earlier than by now we would have enough Squadrons of Rafale. Let's see how it goes.
There is no need to buy F-35...it's not suitable for us. So no need to worry about budget for F-35.
F-35 is a force multiplier. Nothing like that really exists with the Chinese. Only issue is how will you integrate the f-35 with so much non-Nato hardware.
Netras will start coming when Rafales start entering in numbers. No way India is getting E3 or E7.
Beleive everything happened is for a good reason. Now we will be getting F4 version ( i remember @Picdelamirand-oil once said all F4 now manufacturing are wired to be upgraded to F5 verdion). So we want we can manufacture F4 version with that mind, don't know goi will do it due to cost implications or not. If we had signed the deal in 2016, the aircraft we manufacturing will be F3 verson with growth potential only up to F4 version.
Now if wants, can manufacture F5 compatible F4 version, and direct F5 version in later stage. Based on the r&d path of Rafale, i am expecting the F5 verson also will be designed/wired in such a way that it can be upgraded to F6 verson.
So if GOI is smart, we will be manufacurring 90 potential F5 version &24 potential F6 version.
Yeas i do agree that 36 initial number is so small, we would have gone for follow on 36 numbers.
F-35 is not a air superiority jet it's a strike jet. Can't defeat the J-20 with it. I agree it's a good platform but it's not suitable for us with such string attached. So a big No for F-35 and it's discussed many times in F-35 thread.
F5 itself is not ready and you want us fo wait for F6 which is like a 2040 thing lol.
With our network it can't defeat J20 but with US and it's Asian allies it certainly can match and defeat J20. Sensor fusion, EW and stealth of F35 is superior to J20. Especially when paired with F22 its a difficult situation for J20. Only issue is AIM 120 has lower range than PL 15. Don't underestimate the capability of F35!
But we shouldn't get F35 because at the end of the day uncle Sam decides for everyone (except perhaps the Jews) when and where they get to use F35.
IMO, The contracts for an extra 97 Mk1a have already been finalized. Currently, there’s no MK2 available, and the IAF hasn’t tested the Russian SU57; perhaps next deal with SU57 if the AMCA project doesn’t proceed as planned.
The funds will be available from budget for the next IAF acquisition, and the agreement signed now is set to be delivered within the next 3 years. I believe it's a good deal, especially if they can offer a plug-in to integrate our weapons package. We need to finish this deal can't drag more.
The typhoon had program issues but because of so many players we would have been able to get far more concessions on it than the rafale. Plus it would lead to some diplomatic leverage over all eurofighter countries. Although typhoon and rafale complement each other.
The rafale fits the mission set of the mirage and jaguar whereas the typhoon fits the mission set of the mig-29. So we should have bought both. But we can't do both because of our aversion to Anglo Saxon technology and also these deals will be used to force us to position ourselves against the Russians.
The typhoon has a superior radar and flight profile that is better positioned to take out j-10's, j-11, j-16's. Also access to American munitions and subsystem and ease of integration of weapons compared to rafale which faces the issues of exclusively using French weapons.
Although Rafales are being armed with new munitions. It's still limited. Still it has a larger variety of munitions than the j-10. It still is smaller than the typhoon. We need to copy American munitions like the jdam,Jsow, amraam, lrasm and integrate it on the rafale. The rafale has a very mature airframe and can carry far more combat load than the typhoon. But it's ground strike focussed while the plaaf and PAF are air superiority focused. Which also gives us a certain advantage as you can see after the 7th May dog fight and our swarm drone attacks on 8th May morning it was smooth sailing for the IAF. We basically were inside Pakistani airspace and the j-10's vanished. The f-16's and jf-17's failed to do A2G attacks. Keep in mind the plaaf doesn't really have a great A2G library. They have the ls3-/ls7 series bombs(jdam copies) but most of their ground attack is limited to surface to surface mlrs/cruise missiles/ballistic missiles. The Pakistanis in fact have access to jdam's, H2,H4 sows(denel raptor), ls series then ra'ad alcm. The plaaf weapons are majorly based on Soviet A2G munitions are dependent on using the h-6k bombers. So the Pakistanis actually have a better library of A2G munitions.
We have far more options for A2G munitions. We are behind in BVR's. They have amraams, pl-15 and pl-17 and upcoming pl-21. So upto 500km of serial coverage. We are limited to 200-300km with meteor being our best missile.
The typhoon had program issues but because of so many players we would have been able to get far more concessions on it than the rafale. Plus it would lead to some diplomatic leverage over all eurofighter countries. Although typhoon and rafale complement each other.
The rafale fits the mission set of the mirage and jaguar whereas the typhoon fits the mission set of the mig-29. So we should have bought both. But we can't do both because of our aversion to Anglo Saxon technology and also these deals will be used to force us to position ourselves against the Russians.
The typhoon has a superior radar and flight profile that is better positioned to take out j-10's, j-11, j-16's. Also access to American munitions and subsystem and ease of integration of weapons compared to rafale which faces the issues of exclusively using French weapons.
Although Rafales are being armed with new munitions. It's still limited. Still it has a larger variety of munitions than the j-10. It still is smaller than the typhoon. We need to copy American munitions like the jdam,Jsow, amraam, lrasm and integrate it on the rafale. The rafale has a very mature airframe and can carry far more combat load than the typhoon. But it's ground strike focussed while the plaaf and PAF are air superiority focused. Which also gives us a certain advantage as you can see after the 7th May dog fight and our swarm drone attacks on 8th May morning it was smooth sailing for the IAF. We basically were inside Pakistani airspace and the j-10's vanished. The f-16's and jf-17's failed to do A2G attacks. Keep in mind the plaaf doesn't really have a great A2G library. They have the ls3-/ls7 series bombs(jdam copies) but most of their ground attack is limited to surface to surface mlrs/cruise missiles/ballistic missiles. The Pakistanis in fact have access to jdam's, H2,H4 sows(denel raptor), ls series then ra'ad alcm. The plaaf weapons are majorly based on Soviet A2G munitions are dependent on using the h-6k bombers. So the Pakistanis actually have a better library of A2G munitions.
We have far more options for A2G munitions. We are behind in BVR's. They have amraams, pl-15 and pl-17 and upcoming pl-21. So upto 500km of serial coverage. We are limited to 200-300km with meteor being our best missiles.
Nah it can defeat the j-20. But for it we need the E-7 atleast.
Chinese may think "jets are for air superiority only and for ground strikes we have thousands of ballistic missiles and MLRS." as you said. Their ARM portfolio is also small and not that impressive, when Rudram Mk2 and Mk3 come online we will have a longer ranged ARM capability.
Even if their PL17 can reach 400 km it's doubtful whether it can shoot down fighter jets from that range, maybe AWACS and Tankers. Our SAMS could have blunted their advantage too but theyre on a plateau higher than us so our SAM radar coverage could be weakened.
That can go to opposite direction too as well. Negotiating with many countries that too influenced by USA in particular geopolitical scenario. Doesn't seem a good option for us.
EFT & Rafale both provides different superior capabilities in different scenarios so question is what capabilities in which way you want So Based on that IAF chose Rafale over EFT.
Rafale is not a ground focused jet it's provide competitive Air superiority wrt to EFT and superior in many factors which are best for IAF. Btw RBE2-xg & MK2 will be most probably operational around same timeline.
Regarding F-35 , we don't have E-7 and advanced sensor fusion, EW , support of F-22 to defeat J-20. So wrt to India F-35 is not a suitable platform.
avionlegendaire.net is not very popular among aviation specialists in France because the author sometimes presents his beliefs as facts without evidence, and when this is pointed out to him, he bans you.
Networked Rafales Tejas Mk2 and Su30 UPG armed with Meteor, Astra Mk2 and Gandiva can hold their own against J20.
No reason F5 only built in France.
For the beginning, sure, so as to fine tune the jet, but after no reason as the frame will remain globally the same (but inside major changes).
China's attention is on Taiwan.
I see no real reason to attack India, specially once your deterrence is more and more stronger.
The rafale is good but it is by no means a rival or as capable as the su57 which is a next gen jet which smokes other 5th gen jets in most categories, India should have bought su57 when they had the chance.
