IAF has already made up its plans to increase the Squadron strength to at least 50 squadrons
So that cannot be done without the Rafale
MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions
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IAF has already made up its plans to increase the Squadron strength to at least 50 squadrons
So that cannot be done without the Rafale
agreed, but I am sure a lot of the increase will come from loyal wingman and the like. That technology is advancing at a rapid pace and makes a lot of sense for India. If they can select a good enough design to mass produce, I think a lot of the worries about squadron strength and defense capabilities will dissipate.
We have a 3 front Scenario coming up
Don't forget Bangladesh
They want J 10 AND EURO FIGHTERS
Don't forget Bangladesh
They want J 10 AND EURO FIGHTERS
I have been a massive proponent of Rafale, always. I have zero doubt in Rafale's capability or its suitability for India.
Its the procurement process that I take umbrage with.
I would have bought 124 Rafales in 2008-2012 itself and Gotten the Source code (France literally said back then that they wanted to go beyond buyer seller relationship at that point). *censored* make in india. *censored* HAl. Just get the jets, get the ToT to integrate weapons. Get MRO. Get whatever they are offering on engine. I would have told HAL to shut the *censored* up and deliver on Tejas and Sitara HJ36 and Su30MKI. Forget Rafale, they are too stupid and too busy to work on it.
In 2010s, I would have put ALL the money in getting kaveri engine running. 20 billion dollars investment in engine R&D? Not much over 10 years. Heck to piss Trump and US off, I would have started a parallel program to integrate M88-3 and RD33MA in Tejas to boot. *censored* GE too. Either they take us seriously or we are just going with Russian or French engine technology.
This is exactly why i hate middle class mentality of India.
Bangladesh are non issue. The issue is our own IAF shitting the bed being stuck with old platforms for another 10 years and dwindling strength. Thats the 100 billion dollar hole.
We have a 4+ gen hole.
We have a 5th gen hole.
Bangladesh can be totally handled by non kinetic means. Anyhow, it is not the topic here. But Rafale is not needed for Kanglus. Just deploy MRLS and destroy B'desh.
To be fair this the worst of all options,
How are they going to procure netra mk2, Tejas mk2, AMCA, cats warrior, Ghatak, LUH, IMRH, from where the money will come, are we going to fight with rafale only,
The defence budget ain't increasing significantly, we yet to cross 100$ billion Mark, modi ain't increasing the defence budget, to sustain these purchase we need 125-130$ billions annually,
When the 8th pay commission comes it will eat more money, where the fund's for R&D will come, theres also multiple SAM projects,
36$ billion is too much for 4.5th gen without source code and with 30% IC, we gonna spend 51 billions on rafale only
My feeling is that China will give Huge amount of Money to Both Pakistan and Bangladesh say 50 Billion Dollars and encourage them to Keep Troubling India
China doesn't want to fight India directly at least till they can sort out Taiwan
Also they feel that Any Conflict with India will bring US and India into a Closer Anti China Partnership like the One JAPAN has with USA
Our Growing Economy will make our enemies even more aggressive towards us , that should be absolutely clear to us
Two major issue as we all know are:
1. Engine development
2. Semiconductor manufacturing
Until India doesn't master these two technologies, DRDO aircraft design and manufacturing will succumb to delays. All 4th, 5th, 6th and beyond depends on mastering material science, fluid mechanics and thermodynamics, plus the wafer technology to develop industrial grade AI capable chips.
Both of these domains are different kind of beasts which is tough to command. West and Russians have spent over a century to master this technology starting from radial piston to turbojets.
Indians have been working in top class projects abroad and leading them. But in Indian it doesn't seems to be priority and hence lack of success. If government today provides $15 billion funds just for engine designing, by next 20 years India can have a 5th gen engine prototype ready. But developing in series production requires more.
One way to do it is by creating deep tech startups, which was mentioned in other thread here, for funds.
I dont think semicon is that big of an issue. You got FPGAs for most of semicon need in defence. India has 28 nm node already under construction at Dholera that is way more than enough for all the defence need.
Engine is solveable by infusion of 20-30 billion dollars tht government need to make.
If Rafales aren't networked fully to IACCS and if Netra can't even guide Meteor then even J10C can shoot it down like we saw in May. A networked Tejas Mk1A with Astra Mk2 guided by Netra AWACS and ground radars will be more deadly lol. Both are not ready yet but you're high if you think they won't be ready by 2030 in numbers.
This silver bullet isn't going to save India.
We ain't even got fables companies designing successfull ASICS en masse for CIVILIAN use and yall think we can and will design and produce defence grade FPGAS from the start. Let them produce a 28 nm domestically designed ASIC then we will see.
Exactly what I'm saying and the Meteor on rafales doesn't even have an AESA radar. No AESA radar and no cueing from Netra AWACS wah and this is supposed to defeat 5th gen fighters in a heavy EW and jamming environment
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This is a JV with PSMC, hence there will patents in manufacturing technology.
This is a fabrication unit minus design lab, I am talking about designing which means going beyond nm in future. You have IITM and one in Chandigarh who have designed 2nm chip but there is lack of funds and also production technology to manufacture them in serial production.
I get the impression that you don't understand that it's not just planes we're selling you, but an entire industry. And when you make planes, you have to be extremely rigorous, otherwise accidents will cause deaths. I'm not saying that Indians aren't rigorous, but there are things we've learned in over fifteen years of experimentation that you'll have to learn in two or three years. Let me give you an example: you want to put an indigenous weapon on the Rafale, and you say to yourself, we do it on the SU-30 MKI, so why not on the Rafale?
But you know that on the Rafale there is an instability that is managed by the FCS, and it's critical software with a critical architecture, so the separation of your new weapon and the Rafale is also managed because we use the canards to modify the center of gravity and load asymmetries. so the FCS must be configured to take into account the characteristics of your weapon, i.e., modify the software to take into account all possible mixed configurations with other weapons and fuel tanks already integrated and perform all tests with all configurations in all authorized flight areas.
But that's not all. You also have to go into an anechoic chamber to measure the Rafale's signature for all the configurations it is likely to encounter during its operational life and enter this into Spectra so that it can work with your weapon as it does with the others that have been integrated by Dassault.
We can let you use this critical software, but not right away. I assure you it's for your own good.
But you know that on the Rafale there is an instability that is managed by the FCS, and it's critical software with a critical architecture, so the separation of your new weapon and the Rafale is also managed because we use the canards to modify the center of gravity and load asymmetries. so the FCS must be configured to take into account the characteristics of your weapon, i.e., modify the software to take into account all possible mixed configurations with other weapons and fuel tanks already integrated and perform all tests with all configurations in all authorized flight areas.
But that's not all. You also have to go into an anechoic chamber to measure the Rafale's signature for all the configurations it is likely to encounter during its operational life and enter this into Spectra so that it can work with your weapon as it does with the others that have been integrated by Dassault.
We can let you use this critical software, but not right away. I assure you it's for your own good.
Yea this would've made the most sense if we actually put effort and money into Kaveri starting from 2010 by now likely it would be ready for at least LSP to fly on Tejas. Wtr to Rafales the Indian gobermint still has PTSD of Bofors and submarine scandal which caused Rajiv to lose his seat which causes them to prioritize lumbering deals and passing on the buck rather than doing it quickly. Opposition and media make everything sensational in this country even allegations.
Well in that case send your engineers to network Meteor with our AWACS and ground radars data links for better guidance. If that happens perhaps there is no need at all to integrate Astra on Rafales and we won't have to change the FCS.
No amount of jets gonna turn the Tide of battle for Bangladesh when every bases of theirs are in range of rocket artillery & artillery guns,
The biggest threat is in the northern border against the Chinese, the babus the IAF the Govt created the man made disaster and here we are
Yeah afnet is not directly linked to rafales, nor bnet is linked to rafale,Exactly what I'm saying and the Meteor on rafales doesn't even have an AESA radar. No AESA radar and no cueing from Netra AWACS wah and this is supposed to defeat 5th gen fighters in a heavy EW and jamming environment
We already experienced that the air warfare has changed into network centric mode, now with loyal wingman and other components which makes it more deadly, but here we have jet that can't talk to other jets properly, majority of time it will be own it's own
Yea no. I think deep inside you believe India is always destined to be some third rate power hence it's fine if it confines to keep buying or iterating some foreign design. India may not have the capability now, does not mean it will not in the future. If others had this despicably retarded level thinking India wouldn't have ballistic missiles, SSBNs, ISRO etc. We are not destined to be a third rate power and to not be a third rate power we need our own weapons. Now we need Rafales but more than that we need domestic capability in aerospace design and production which must be pursued by hook or by crook.
And the current AESA radar on Rafales dont cut it even Uttam Mk2 can match it when ready. Rafale F5 oth is the beast but we need to make sure most of the jets we are getting is F5 or at least capable of being upgradable to F5 with clear timelines.
If we are getting jets from 2030 onwards or later, i don't see any reasons why can't we get F5 versions from the initial batches
Absolutely! It took me just 3 days to add DSP and AI accelarator core to RISCV in RTL. Just 3 days. And I tested it on FPGA. It wroks. With claude code, I can do it in just 3 days.
I have no doubt that with modern AI tools, one can have an entire ASIC low level design ready in weeks not years. Even mask design. You just need a e-writer to make the mask.
Wanna blow your mind? I can make few chips entirely without ANY kind of fab. How you say? Well, just an electron microsope of right kind. I tried something similar using my wife's university lab that has an electron microsope. I can etch a working chip with it. I do not have packaging capabilities but etching chips is not an issue.
If I can do it, what stops DRDO from buying 100-200 electron microsope and convert them into low volume e-beam writing solutions for making low volume chips for military purpose? You do not need chips in even 10s of thousands. Only few thousands for military purpose like fighter jets. You can hve that yield from e-beam setups in few months. Its slow as hell but it works.