The Armour protection can be increased easily by modular arrangement to up its total weight to 36 ton .... So don't need to worry much, With APS and other systems this will have high survival ability in battlefield, this is a highly modular system, needed for Indian Army very much , to tackle versatile terrains of Indian Borders.
Zorawar: Light tank for Indian army
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
Again wrong.
Take any modern IFV platform. Provide me with 1 example of a sub 40 ton platform which can withstand a 2nd gen ATGM.
Zorawar is a glorified Infantry Fighting Vehicle. Shouldn't call it a tank.
The chassis is actually derived from the cancelled Abhay IFV prog (which was originally supposed to mount a turreted 40mm Bofors L70 gun.) Considering the Zorawar prototypes have sizeable add-on side armour panels, the frontal arc likely can fit modular panels too.
In any case, with the addition of ATGM/LM launchers, APS and CUAS, Zorawar will inevitably get much heavier (~30-32t?) by the time it enters service. Can't imagine an AUW of 25t with all that gear fitted.
Ifv (tracked or wheeled) + firepower more closer to mbt = light tank/mobile firesupport/gun vehicle.
So all light tanks are glorified ifv by this logic.
Though some Ifv weight vehicles with upgraded firepower are more tank like compared to others, depend on how they are used by the user, how well they perform when used more like a tank for breach assults, tip of the spear etc even if they lack armour of a tank.
Zorawar is in latter category, its designed to be used as a tank.
Rather than used as a mobile firesupport vehicle.
In Russo unkraine war many tanks are also being used as mobile fire support or even short range artillary with digged in and well camouflaged positions.
So zorawar is lot more than a glorified IFV even if lacks armour of a mbt.
Even now armour is last defense of tanks rather than first.
And with upcoming active protection systems and anti drone ciws in future.
Gap in protection between zorawar and mbt's will close quite significantly
Indeed, best survivability will be ones with goods APS systems.
If not the tank is cooked, doesn't matter if its light, medium, heavy.
chances of crew survival does increase, marginally that is.
Will you use it as the 1st vehicle in your thrust against the enemy?
If not, then it's not a tank.
The lack of capabilities of Russians in the battlefield are fooling you.
Our Army is trying very bad to gain the capabilities of what US was able to achive against Iraq. That type of swift offensive thrusts in enemy territory, against a decently organised enemy.
And the US thrust was led on the ground by M1 tanks. The Bradleys got a lot of T55 kills, but they were always behind the M1.
And the protection in the frontal arc is extremely important for that. The tank will be facing numerous volleys and APS alone will not be effective.
In a place where I can't bring heavier tanks, Yes.
that's also the intended role of zorawar in Himalayas.
Unlike US m10 booker concept whose role was fire support.
Name a place along LAC where you cannot bring a 45 ton T72 but can bring a 25 tons vehicle?
Remember I am saying 25 tons, maybe you add some modular armour, era, APS, etc, make it 35 tons.
Thats closer to the T72.
I do think combat weight of zorawar will reach ~30tons.
Technically you can operate t72, t90 to almost all the places where light 20-25 tons vehicles can operate, the question is more about logistic supplies, infra and ease of movement in those terrain.
The combined effect is so much that army is willing to drop armour protection for improvement in those aspects.
I don't have questions on the effectiveness of the vehicle or its capabilities.
I have a problem if people call if a tank. That's it.
You can continue with you having a problem.
I will continue calling it a light tank.
You can call it a tank, you can put it out at the very front if you want.
But it will not give it frontal arc survival against even older gen tanks of Pak Army forget against the type 99 and type 15s.
And?
You think type 15's armour will survive against zorawar's firepower?
105mm DM63 / M426 APFSDS developed in 1980's by Germany has penetration of 500mm at 2km.
And with atgm's like nag mk2 even type 99 will not have enough protection in frontal arc.
Nag mk2 has penetration of 900mm equivalent of rha.
So in tank to tank warfare( relatively rare in modern battlefield) who will shoot first will win.
The type-15 is 10 tons heavier.
A 35 ton light tank will still have thick armour in the frontal arc capable of taking hits from an older ammo kind.
I think I have said it before when it was conceptualized, that I would have loved a 35 ton baseline Zorawar.
While Zorawar in its current form is designed only to take hits from upto 20mm ap rounds in the frontal arc, the heavier Type 15 will have a thicker steel armour.
The Type 15 might just survive the 1st hit from an older T72 ammo.
But Zorawar will be scarp if it's spotted first by any Chinese IFV.
I agree with who spots first , has a better chance of firing first.
But those 10 extra tons, that means Type 15 will possibly survive at the very front compared to Zorawar.
First, source?
Second even if true so what?
No that's your assumption.
Also if we go by your assumptions as right as type 15 having that armour to take on early t72 rounds and ifv getting first shot chance on zorawar.
Now let's also assume ifv also gets first shot chances against type 15 which can take early t72 shots.
Now add on the fact that atgm's are now standard on IFV's even our bmp'2 are equipped with atgm's.
Now for what tanks needs including chinese tanker news think
Translated to English.
the base (non-composite, non-ERA) frontal armor is widely believed to offer protection against 14.5 \text{mm} armor-piercing rounds (STANAG 4569 Level 4 KE), with weaker protection on the flanks.
Also
The Zorawar light tank is equipped with modular composite armor that provides a STANAG Level 4 standard of protection for the frontal arc
So chinese tank nerds think base 7 ton heavier type 15 has same protection as zorawar.
Chinese discussions also heavily emphasize that the modular composite armor and ERA are what provide the true "tank-level" protection against anti-tank weapons.
The enhanced package is designed to defeat threats up to older generation 105 mm APFSDS rounds and warheads. This is a common benchmark cited to establish its combat superiority over older MBTs in neighboring regions.
We can also add modular armour to zorawar.
Now these no. Are still just unofficial ones from online chinese tank nerd community , and i will not take their claims as truth, and i will also not take your claims and assumptions about zorawar and type 15 as truth.
Also remember zorawar weight reduction is not just armour, from drive shaft engine, tracks. Turret all are designed for weight reduction.
Chinese soldiers also have much larger part of their body inside turret of type 15 hence more turret armour, in zorawar almost entirely body is inside hull.
Also
A Leopard 1 C2 tank trial in 2016 found that composite rubber tracks were 47% lighter than the legacy steel tracks, saving over 1,600 kg (1.6 tons) on the complete vehicle.
God Damn composite tracks being1.6 tons lighter than steel ones for leopard.
An estimated weight for the ZTQ-15's 1,000 hp diesel engine is around 2,500 to 3,500 kg (5,500 to 7,700 lbs), based on comparisons with similar-power tank and heavy-duty industrial diesel engines.
The Cummins VTA903E-T760 engine has a dry weight of approximately 1,171 kg.
Used in zorawar.
So we save tons of weight in turret, tracks, engine transmission in zorawar.
Goddam.
How much ton of the extra weight of ztq 15 base varient is actually more assumed armour according to you?
I'm now starting to beleive chinese nerds now
It's not that simple though. Extra weight doesn't necessarily translate to armor. That extra 10 tons could be result of many other factors as stated above by baba.