I mean after all roji roti ka sawaal hai, so you need constant stream of content for that, and slandering institutions is the favourite pastime of this particular Youtuber.
CAD Pulgaon successfully conducted Roll On - Roll Off (RO-RO) Exercise & trials at Pulgaon. Reps of all three Services (Army, IAF, Navy), DRDO/CFEES & Indian Railways participated. (1/2).+
RO-RO mode of transportation will impact Jointness, seamless execution and accelerated build-up of ammunition to Theatre Battle Areas, assuring decisive mission success.(2/2)
anyone explain what is this about ? logistics ?
RO-RO mode of transportation will impact Jointness, seamless execution and accelerated build-up of ammunition to Theatre Battle Areas, assuring decisive mission success.(2/2)
anyone explain what is this about ? logistics ?
If this is what you want imported or assembled for the forces to make a difference, you really need to re-think how the market should diversify and what should be considered to enhance force capability.
This is not meant for the forces exactly. This Helicopter has a lower service celing. The target customer is the civilian sector.
I know. However, the context that it was being discussed in by both of these accounts pertains to military aviation. One is a veteran I believe, the other is a defence youtuber/analyst.
India is looking to shake up its defense procurement rules by letting local arms of foreign defense companies count as "Indian vendors."
This idea, discussed in a recent task force meeting led by former cabinet secretary Rajiv Gauba, could make it easier for global players to set up operations here and help boost domestic manufacturing.
Still in discussion phase it seems. However, I fail to understand that other than boosting manufacturing jobs and perhaps providing some know how, how will this really help the domestic industry grow and help produce 'Made in India' weapon systems?
economictimes.indiatimes.com
This idea, discussed in a recent task force meeting led by former cabinet secretary Rajiv Gauba, could make it easier for global players to set up operations here and help boost domestic manufacturing.
Still in discussion phase it seems. However, I fail to understand that other than boosting manufacturing jobs and perhaps providing some know how, how will this really help the domestic industry grow and help produce 'Made in India' weapon systems?
Govt likely to recognise foreign defence companies’ local arms as 'Indian'
The government may allow wholly owned local subsidiaries of foreign defence manufacturers to qualify as “Indian vendors” in defence procurement, addressing a long-standing industry demand. This move would simplify procurement, boost domestic manufacturing, and encourage foreign companies to set...
Well played
I hope this is sarcasm
. And wholly owned subsidaries doesn't get qualified as "indian" vendors if money flows outside for R&D. Instead just fcn invest in domestic R&D, so you don't have to import from bolts to planes
India is looking to shake up its defense procurement rules by letting local arms of foreign defense companies count as "Indian vendors."
This idea, discussed in a recent task force meeting led by former cabinet secretary Rajiv Gauba, could make it easier for global players to set up operations here and help boost domestic manufacturing.
Still in discussion phase it seems. However, I fail to understand that other than boosting manufacturing jobs and perhaps providing some know how, how will this really help the domestic industry grow and help produce 'Made in India' weapon systems?
Govt likely to recognise foreign defence companies’ local arms as 'Indian'
The government may allow wholly owned local subsidiaries of foreign defence manufacturers to qualify as “Indian vendors” in defence procurement, addressing a long-standing industry demand. This move would simplify procurement, boost domestic manufacturing, and encourage foreign companies to set...
Nope. It won't. It's just cutting indian businessman out of JV structure. Preventing even the little knowledge how that was able to be absorbed by lethargic indian counterpart.
Without the foreign co entering into a jv with a local company, they can not participate in the tenders. You think Dassault will be bringing stuff & everything from abroad and still manage economy of scale to complete a contract here in their Indian facility? The core interest in the short term is to have the supply chain, mfg setup which would in turn help in build up trained manpower because there is big shortfall in that area apart from many technology non availability. No there are not enough well trained expertise or workforce available within the country. Simply welding, a good welder trained on different kind of welding tech, there are not enough. Pay grade are small so always there is demand but not adequate good trained welders available. This also goes for sophisticated machine operators, service technical manpower, amc , customer support technical workforce etc.
For the short to medium term this aspect need to be built, then nurtured enough so subsystem level manufacturing industry get set up strong within the country & not in the patchy location wise (mainly South India few select places) status like now. Then from that subsystem level you graduate into full system level mfg house. This entire process take time not just to build up but also to acquire the different certification standard without which you can not address you whole target market. Limit your target market to only domestic or only few select foreign OEM specialised lines, the business will always remain limited because the target customer base is limited.
To have organic growth the idea is for continuous progression right from supply level to system design to subsystem level to finally full system level core expertise build up. It won't happen in 5-10 years, would take more than 15 years & a very good incremental capex plan. This plan only comes into fruition either via foreign capital injection (happen thru jv mode) or from own effort (without high return or prospect of sizeable order nobody would invest high & bleed money later). One aspect enable the other. You have to graduate from service to manufacturing, then have to find a market for your manufactured product at a competitive rate.
For the short to medium term this aspect need to be built, then nurtured enough so subsystem level manufacturing industry get set up strong within the country & not in the patchy location wise (mainly South India few select places) status like now. Then from that subsystem level you graduate into full system level mfg house. This entire process take time not just to build up but also to acquire the different certification standard without which you can not address you whole target market. Limit your target market to only domestic or only few select foreign OEM specialised lines, the business will always remain limited because the target customer base is limited.
To have organic growth the idea is for continuous progression right from supply level to system design to subsystem level to finally full system level core expertise build up. It won't happen in 5-10 years, would take more than 15 years & a very good incremental capex plan. This plan only comes into fruition either via foreign capital injection (happen thru jv mode) or from own effort (without high return or prospect of sizeable order nobody would invest high & bleed money later). One aspect enable the other. You have to graduate from service to manufacturing, then have to find a market for your manufactured product at a competitive rate.
Agree with all that.. but the above article suggests that there policy discussion on allowing foreign subsidiaries to be considered as an Indian vendor.
Hypothetically, if implemented, how will that decision impact our defense sector and deviate from your above scenario.
Will they set a subsidary with a mix of foreign excutive+workforce & indians under training? To create a workforce that is indian. If they do that.. is that enough justification to let them be considered as an Indian vendor.
When, most likely there won't be any substantive R&D or IP generation in India.
If the aim is timely availability & sustenance at all times including during conflict , then its only a minor issue. Whether a platform is IDDM or what make or what is % of indi content that is relatively superficial stuff good for PR value but in battle its a zero sum game. My gear should be good enough to counter the adversary. This is primary objective for the use case.
Next is the industrial capability enhancement part. It is always good to have it sourced locally while feeding on a global supply chain. Every single country do that. Idea should be on value addition, how much our own domestic industry can create value wise so the business that would traditionally go to foreign OEM/foreign market instead shift to us based on certain usp be it quality, cost , time of delivery, ease of business (subsidy, attractive financing etc) such factors. Without a demand the business can not grow.
Once it start growing the foreign OEM would also get more return on its investment here. Subsequently it may prefer to part shift some operation that would normally go to a third country subsidiary in another region to India so it can meet demand in the geographic region we are in. This in turn help in expansion , a greater supply chain growth, long term tech support & available expert workforce to cater for market demand. It can even create new customer base.
When Indian companies want to venture into foreign market, they also have to go with channel partners local company to gain entry into a foreign market. Overall total addressable market is always big but large part of that remain out of reach unless one venture out by following respective country specific norms, roles & export control mechanism, certification of product & manufacturing practice. Rest whether you call it IDDM or local produce ie IP generation part, to get to a stage of IP generation can not happen suddenly. Either you license a tech from your domestic sourcing & turn it into a viable product good for global market, this scaling up need years of expertise. or you can build something from ground up. New technology or IP is generally the theory part, scaling it into some usable product itself take considerable time , expertise & marketing, else the market demand would not arise at all. it is good if Indian manpower can do that or need to build up over time.
So for a short to medium term period, it is beneficial to build up & shorten the industrial gap that exist with other countries vs India. After small leap then the jump can happen. This is what the message is from various Industrial & commercial think tank too & it has some weight.
Again, 100% agree with you.
But the article and my subsequent query is a bit different. As you mentioned, that any firm going into foreign nation has to get into venture with a local partner at the start. Given that the limited ventures in defense have started years ago, most with limit set at 51 or 74% FDI or stake. And the plethora of foreign companies' indian subsidaries in civil sector. Is it prudent to allow a 100% foreign owned subsidaries as an "Indian" vendor. i.e. they won't have to get into venture or partnership with a local player.
What advantages does this move provide to us that a 74% limit was not doing ? The indigineous content policy is likely to remain same for all suppliers. So that is not the issue. Issue is cutting that 25-26% out while getting what in return exactly?
If the problem is with outdated businessman like murthy sahab in india, cant a startup active in defense innovation for some time, be made a partner instead? The funding issue can be managed. Startup can focus on floor work and perhaps be better than a corporate.
The article talks about many good things but doesn't go into deeper about this particular issue. It's talks about other policy changes after that.
Prudent part is for the economists, Govt facilitated committee members to discuss & argue upon, how much value addition was thought of previously vs how much actually happening. Since we are talking about defence sector only & defence mfg/oems the matter is quite sensitive & very restrictive in nature worldwide due to being considered strategic asset in many or most cases. So there would be different view as well as gap between hoped for vs reality.
What the Govt want is localisation as opposed to direct import, % of India value addition , moreover attracting foreign co to set up shop here which is always difficult even in civilian biz market. Aim is to build up a domestic pvt sector MIC because the PSU centric domestic MIC has fallen way behind, does not offer profit anymore & more of a burden now due to being past of its sell by date. In turn pvt industry want assured order & the assured order is generally thought of for proven existing product.
So now we have different category of contracts where different tier industry can take part, some are restricted with IDDM. Now if a foreign co set up jv is not allowed to take part in tendering, there is no incentive to set up jv or 100% foreign controlled venture in the first place. So there would be lobbying & at some point Govt side would have to agree & make necessary change in policy.
In future we will know how much beneficial or detrimental it can be. But for immediate need or access to domestic market, this step can bring in more players without offering subsidy sort of incentive.
Do we have more news on this? Most of the portals mention that, now they don't have to take an NOC before setting up an ammunition etc. factory.
Is that thing significant enough? Seems like more of a removal of red tape by one signature rather than "opening" missiles to pvt sector.
I am not commenting on what happened but what it seemed to me and wanting to know more about its impact. Rather than divulging into good or bad for now.
Scalp license produced by TATA and Rampage by Adani?
Is that thing significant enough? Seems like more of a removal of red tape by one signature rather than "opening" missiles to pvt sector.
I am not commenting on what happened but what it seemed to me and wanting to know more about its impact. Rather than divulging into good or bad for now.
Scalp license produced by TATA and Rampage by Adani?
Initially its the shells & ammo that is being chased by all the forging co. Only a few players in missiles due to much more complex high end integrated system demand where core expertise is needed in multiple domains, electrical electronics, software mechanical, niche parts like radome infra red sensor package etc.
A lot of the points made here make sense. However, there are certain downsides that also need to be addressed. Considering the track record of MoD and GoI....I have some doubts about their capabilities and policy making (including amendments as well as adaptability).
While global supply chains offer cost benefits, over-reliance exposes India to geopolitical risks. During conflicts, foreign suppliers might restrict critical components due to export controls or political pressure. There are some cases that continue to linger in public memory.
Sidelining domestic manufacturing ignores its role in systemic capability-building. The Tejas fighter program, despite initial delays, has created a pipeline for advanced avionics and composite material expertise.
Focusing on value addition (e.g., assembly or subsystem integration) in the medium term risks perpetuating dependency. Foreign OEMs often retain control over critical technologies like jet engine metallurgy or radar software etc. Here I will specifically cite Embraer. Their model shows that state-backed R&D investment (even at short-term cost) is necessary to develop globally competitive platforms like the KC-390.
Practical/Rational engagement with global chains has merits, India's own procurement crises suggest that strategic sectors require deliberate over-investment in domestic R&D. A hybrid approach – combining targeted imports with IDDM-enforced tech absorption may better balance needs in the medium term and can aid long-term autonomy.
Wasn't shells and ammo already being initiated by pvt industry some years ago? Was the NOC any hinderance? Or just an unnecessary step instead that's done away with
Those were case specific most likely. Overall policy change was being discussed for some time as we have seen.