Agni & Prithvi Ballistic Missiles : News & Discussions

[Jaymax]

This habit of understating yield is not good.

This approach has allowed India to go unnoticed while Pressler Amendment railed Pakistan. India quietly built its capability to the point it was an established power and its quiet understated approach meant no one ever felt threatened by the Indian weapons program.

Even after 1998's initial whoopla, the public opinion in the west about India's weapons was - those yoga dudes have bombs ??? NVM they are cool.

Pakistan's economic journey was hamstrung because of its constant saber-rattling. Also the term Islamic Bomb was good in the domestic market but a train wreck out in the west.

 

[safriz]

Thanks dude, I feel delighted hearing your explanation. Nothing I was just reminiscing about old times. Some Lahori guy was making moonshots in front of me. Clearly, he lacked your sophistry. We are learning new things from you everyday.

This is especially revealing. What would you suggest? Should we abandon the effort all together. You seem particularly well informed.

Yes,
It's more to do with business than anything else.
Guess who develops the warheads and who has plenty of commercial contracts in missile development part?
Funds are prioritised to wherever the lobbying diverts them ?
Go on write another irrelevant sarcastic comment.
I find it entertaining.

 

[Shan]

Yes,
It's more to do with business than anything else.
Guess who develops the warheads and who has plenty of commercial contracts in missile development part?
Funds are prioritised to wherever the lobbying diverts them ?
Go on write another irrelevant sarcastic comment.
I find it entertaining.

Good to know.

 

[safriz]

The bomb we exploded in Pokhran 1 1974 weighed 1400 kg but had a yield of 8-10 kilotons or so, in the next 24 years before the second test Indian scientists reduced the weight to 125 kg or so and increased the yield by boosting it with dueterium. This boosted fission design was successfully tested in Pokhran 2. All of this is documented in the book "Weapons of Peace" by Raja Rammanna who documented Indias nuclear programme. The 200 kiloton boosted fission physics package has a size of roughly 800 kg according to a diagram I saw somewhere which means warhead weight will be 1 tonne or something maybe. But the fusion 200 kiloton warhead weighs only 270 kg or so.

Yes.
India has boosted fission weapon design.
The. deuterium bit produces more neutrons for higher percentage of fission.
Not much explosive energy.
The reflectors and shielding parts are heavy. Which are used to reflect the neutron back into the fissile materials.
However I am not sure why you say pure fission warhead is lighter than boosted fission?
Usually it's the other way round?

 

[Hydra]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1936987453514207287

is it evenpossible? Means a modified BM for bunker buster job?

 

[Shan]

is it evenpossible? Means a modified BM for bunker buster job?

I have my doubts as well. A lot of such claims flooding the internet since past few days.

 

[marich01]

Impossible to identify , think saw this on BRF before too maybe Hellbent sir also posted.

 

[marich01]

Right, the actual pic was this , horizontal since the article is stored in this way stored and also in the vehicle too. Those big rotating cum resting fixtures are made for this handling.



now this was from the canisterization work effort in 2013, and A5 was successfully done in 2017. In other paper, there is one more launching mechanism setup described for some launch vehcle that has some similarity in a basic way

 

[Defc0n]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1936987453514207287

is it evenpossible? Means a modified BM for bunker buster job?

CEP of the missile will not allow it to be used as a Bunker Buster (similar to MOP). However, if the claims are true, then it can very well be used to flatten a very large area. Personally speaking, I will love to see one land on Nur Khan at night

There is a video on the same here:

 

[babablacksheep]

CEP of the missile will not allow it to be used as a Bunker Buster (similar to MOP). However, if the claims are true, then it can very well be used to flatten a very large area. Personally speaking, I will love to see one land on Nur Khan at night

There is a video on the same here:

Search hyunmoo 5 SLBM of south Korea.

 

[jetray]

CEP of the missile will not allow it to be used as a Bunker Buster

even if the CEP is 50m-100m wouldnt a 8ton explosive blowing up beneath the ground cause a lot of damage to the structures surrounding the area. Given that most of the recent incidents have been always been fought from stand off distance, this is the only option we have.

 

[Defc0n]

Search hyunmoo 5 SLBM of south Korea.

Will check.

even if the CEP is 50m-100m wouldnt a 8ton explosive blowing up beneath the ground cause a lot of damage to the structures surrounding the area. Given that most of the recent incidents have been always been fought from stand off distance, this is the only option we have.

Sure, for use cases where the target surface area is large enough. But consider a case where you need to land two 8 ton explosive on the same point (very deeply buried target), you cannot achieve that with a BM. That was my point. Basically, it cannot act like a MOP which US used in terms of accuracy.

 

[jetray]

Sure, for use cases where the target surface area is large enough. But consider a case where you need to land two 8 ton explosive on the same point (very deeply buried target), you cannot achieve that with a BM. That was my point. Basically, it cannot act like a MOP which US used in terms of accuracy.

Nah, not that kind of accuracy with a BM, probably it might be to create landslides or collapse the ground within a given area. Another thing is that angle of attack by the warhead needs to be 90 degree for deep penetration, there is little probability of that happening when warhead is coming with such high speed.

 

[babablacksheep]

Sure, for use cases where the target surface area is large enough. But consider a case where you need to land two 8 ton explosive on the same point (very deeply buried target), you cannot achieve that with a BM. That was my point. Basically, it cannot act like a MOP which US used in terms of accuracy.

You can.
We can develop a 4 ton warhead, similar configuration to warhead shown in BM-04 missile, make it fly similar to a hgv like bm-04 RV is supposed to fly.
We can achieve terminal speeds of ~mach10, specially shaped charge and material of RV for deep penetration, while achieving CEP of <30meters.
For that heavy 4 ton RV, we can use Agni 5 missile as a booster.
More than enough to target specific structure( like reactor core) on a large facility.


We don't need to make it fly Like a typical ICBM, with 500-1000km high apogee altitude and steep dive at speeds exceeding mach 30.


It would be lot more expensive than a bomb like MOAB, but hey bombers aren't cheap, plus stealth bombers for deep penetration are even more expensive, plus training, maintinence of bombers ain't cheap either, we also don't have much need for bombers capable of carrying moab sized bombs in other roles too.

 

[Defc0n]

You can.
We can develop a 4 ton warhead, similar configuration to warhead shown in BM-04 missile, make it fly similar to a hgv like bm-04 RV is supposed to fly.
We can achieve terminal speeds of ~mach10, specially shaped charge and material of RV for deep penetration, while achieving CEP of <30meters.
For that heavy 4 ton RV, we can use Agni 5 missile as a booster.
More than enough to target specific structure( like reactor core) on a large facility.


We don't need to make it fly Like a typical ICBM, with 500-1000km high apogee altitude and steep dive at speeds exceeding mach 30.


It would be lot more expensive than a bomb like MOAB, but hey bombers aren't cheap, plus stealth bombers for deep penetration are even more expensive, plus training, maintinence of bombers ain't cheap either, we also don't have much need for bombers capable of carrying moab sized bombs in other roles too.

I checked out the Hyunmoo 5. While I agree that BMs can be used for “some” bunker busting missions, it cannot be used for deeper targets. A CEP<30 m is not going to be enough. Take the recent example of Iranian facility in Fordow. Could Hyunmoo 5 be used for that mission? Even for Indian context, I am sure there are some facilities in Pak which are quite deep and will need multiple strikes with pinpoint precision or jugaad like HVAC entry. A BM will also find the HVAC entry to be difficult on most days and if quite a few are fired, probably 1 will get through.

 

[babablacksheep]

You can.
We can develop a 4 ton warhead, similar configuration to warhead shown in BM-04 missile, make it fly similar to a hgv like bm-04 RV is supposed to fly.
We can achieve terminal speeds of ~mach10, specially shaped charge and material of RV for deep penetration, while achieving CEP of <30meters.
For that heavy 4 ton RV, we can use Agni 5 missile as a booster.
More than enough to target specific structure( like reactor core) on a large facility.


We don't need to make it fly Like a typical ICBM, with 500-1000km high apogee altitude and steep dive at speeds exceeding mach 30.


It would be lot more expensive than a bomb like MOAB, but hey bombers aren't cheap, plus stealth bombers for deep penetration are even more expensive, plus training, maintinence of bombers ain't cheap either, we also don't have much need for bombers capable of carrying moab sized bombs in other roles too.

With that 4 ton warhead, the max apogee I'm thinking about is somewhat above edge of the atmosphere( and also going for higher apogee of hundreds of kms can be mistaken for an ICBM launch).
And them the 4 ton deep penetrating warhead, gliding/lofting towards it's target similar to an hgv, with terminal speeds of Mach 8-10.
Range could be 2000+km.

With 8 ton puesdo hgv warhead, range will be ~1000km or less( still more than enough for pakistan).
I'm assuming modified Agni 5 missile/booster used.

An 8 ton warhead, designed for puesdo hgv flight and precise strike and
deep pentration, coming at ~°60 from horizontal at speeds of Mach 8-10 will be more than capable of destroying targets well below 100m deep.
And cep of <30 Meters is more than achievable, as proved by bm-04.

I checked out the Hyunmoo 5. While I agree that BMs can be used for “some” bunker busting missions, it cannot be used for deeper targets. A CEP<30 m is not going to be enough. Take the recent example of Iranian facility in Fordow. Could Hyunmoo 5 be used for that mission? Even for Indian context, I am sure there are some facilities in Pak which are quite deep and will need multiple strikes with pinpoint precision or jugaad like HVAC entry. A BM will also find the HVAC entry to be difficult on most days and if quite a few are fired, probably 1 will get through.

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