Nope. He specifically answered regarding the question of importing 5th gen counter to PAF's future acquisition of J-35. @17:14 mark onwards:
Just listen to what he is saying and what I am saying then connect the dots
Nope. He specifically answered regarding the question of importing 5th gen counter to PAF's future acquisition of J-35. @17:14 mark onwards:
Just listen to what he is saying and what I am saying then connect the dots
He's basically talking about MRFA there too. He wants progressive inductions of Indian tech, which means it's a license production deal, not a stopgap.
PS: The IAF (MoD) has opened up the competition to 5th gen too.
'Let Pakistan get J 20s': Ex IAF chief rules out interim imports, says focus must be on AMCA - BusinessToday
India must focus on developing countermeasures and air defence strategies to manage emerging threats, says Bhadauriawww.businesstoday.in
Asked if India should consider importing fifth-generation fighter jets in the interim—especially as Pakistan is likely to acquire China’s J-20 or even J-35 equivalents—Bhadauria firmly ruled it out. "My answer is no. Now, the government has clearly put their faith in AMCA, and now we need to do everything as a nation to expedite the AMCA," he said.
"That cause of concern in terms of what Pakistan is going to get from China in the interim - be it J20 or J-35 - let them get these. That will be studied. What is important is in the interim how do you handle these threats and there are ways and means of tackling this threat that they will have."
"In terms of stealth capability Pakistan is likely to get before us, we'll have to take some other measures in order to be able to detect by some means, to be able to still hold them off our borders much inside so that they are unable to launch," he said. "And should they be able to launch their cruise missiles or their standoff weapons, we are able to tackle the weapons."
Weird that ACM Bhadauria read my posts.
@Parthu
Nope. He specifically answered regarding the question of importing 5th gen counter to PAF's future acquisition of J-35. @17:14 mark onwards:
Just listen to what he is saying and what I am saying then connect the dots
Both former & current ACMs are merely voicing their opinions, that too aimed at a general audience of laymen. Nothing to be taken too seriously at this point with regard to which way we're actually gonna go. But both ACMs thankfully seem to share the opinion that AMCA must invariably be the long-term priority.
Any stop-gap import of foreign 5th gen, like I've said before, will be a geopolitical decision taken at the highest levels of Govt, not merely a tactical one that the military just randomly puts in a request for. There's a reason F-35 was the only thing mentioned by name during the Modi-Trump summit even though lots of other deals were on the anvil.
That said, in case a stop-gap import is unviable due to one reason or the reason - I've already said what we'll do. We'll have to modify & tailor our doctrine to fight an enemy that will enjoy absolute look-first/shoot-first advantage against us. That's what Bhadauria is alluding to.
Needless to say, this will cede some space to the enemy in at least the opening stages of a conflict. They'll get to own the skies for quite a while, and if they are successful in exploiting it, they'll have the opportunity to cause a lot of damage early on - there will be a price to pay. But of course, we will have to fight with what we have. We'll also have to lean harder toward the use of Rocket Forces - also something I've said before.
Also needless to say, nobody in the military or Govt will come out & say we're going to be fighting a disadvantaged battle. At least not when addressing a general audience.
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Govt doesn't interfere in choice of procurement outside the list of options the forces provide. For example, if the IN wants an SSN, the govt's not gonna go out and buy something the IN doesn't want just 'cause it's an SSN. So even at the highest levels, the govt goes out and buys only what the forces want. In this case, the IAF is voicing out their opinion that they do not care much about a 5th gen import. And not 5th gen, but a 5th gen import. Huge difference.
Plus, not even a stopgap, they want something they can change over the long term, so a license production deal. That's the main point.
Btw, Modi-Trump, nah, Modi never said anything about the F-35. Only Trump acting like a salesman for the F-35. That's not relevant to pretty much anything the IAF is doing. Trump's push for the F-35 means it's just the same low-hanging fruit the IAF has access to as any other available option, like the MRFA competitors. Trump is just pompous enough to sound like he's doing India a great favor by allowing India the opportunity to beg for it instead of participating in MRFA.
As ACM Singh said, any import will be via Make in India.
Plus, even at the highest levels, like the PMO, there is no interest in just importing a new jet like we did the 36 Rafales.
The requirements are privately conveyed to the Govt, because there is a possibility that no 5th gen import is possible due to geopolitical realities. When that is the case, the forces cannot make their requirement public until & unless there is a viable deal on hand. Cuz otherwise they'll be putting the Govt in a spot.
We cannot be sending the message that IAF requires 5G ASAP but Govt is holding up the negotiations and thereby compromising national security...when in fact it would be the Govt that's trying to ensure both security & sovereignty by ensuring we don't get into the wrong kind of deal.
But this cannot be conveyed in the public unless we divulge too many geopolitical, strategic, tactical & systems-level details. It's an entirely avoidable headache.
So IMO, any 5G import, whether stop gap or more long-term backup in case AMCA fails, will come in a G2G deal that's more akin to the Akula SSN lease than the 2016 Rafale deal. Did we put out a tender to see who all are willing to lease us a nuclear boat? Nope.
The Govt/IAF may start off wanting a more MRFA-like procedure, but I think it will evolve into a G2G fairly quickly once we realize what options we actually have - which is gonna be extremely limited.
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That was the point of opening up MRFA to 5th gen. The plan is to just import one jet for long term production. That could be Rafale/Typhoon, the usual MMRCA champs, or a 5th gen contender that participates.
So, if AMCA fails, and if Rafale/Tiffy win MRFA, then a 5th gen stopgap/long term is necessary, depending on the scale of the failure. But if a 5th gen wins MRFA, whether it's Su-57 or F-35, then nothing. We just do the LCA, Su-57/F-35, and Ghatak at that point and see how best AMCA can be salvaged.
A tender is necessary to make the best deal. Direct GTG is not a workable system when competitors are available. It's only possible for exotic tech, like we did for MKI, Brahmos, and MRSAM.
Technology is a race. You can not afford to leg behind. If radars are much powerful to detect stealth, they can detect non stealth from a greater distance. FOr example a radar can detect a 1 Sq Meter Target from 150 k.m. Distance, detection range for 0.1 Sq Meter target will reduce to 84 K.M. and RCS for 0.01 Sq meter target shall be 47 km.
'Let Pakistan get J 20s': Ex IAF chief rules out interim imports, says focus must be on AMCA - BusinessToday
India must focus on developing countermeasures and air defence strategies to manage emerging threats, says Bhadauria
Asked if India should consider importing fifth-generation fighter jets in the interim—especially as Pakistan is likely to acquire China’s J-20 or even J-35 equivalents—Bhadauria firmly ruled it out. "My answer is no. Now, the government has clearly put their faith in AMCA, and now we need to do everything as a nation to expedite the AMCA," he said.
"That cause of concern in terms of what Pakistan is going to get from China in the interim - be it J20 or J-35 - let them get these. That will be studied. What is important is in the interim how do you handle these threats and there are ways and means of tackling this threat that they will have."
"In terms of stealth capability Pakistan is likely to get before us, we'll have to take some other measures in order to be able to detect by some means, to be able to still hold them off our borders much inside so that they are unable to launch," he said. "And should they be able to launch their cruise missiles or their standoff weapons, we are able to tackle the weapons."
Weird that ACM Bhadauria read my posts.
@Parthu
There were news that India stole the Data of J35.
Had Russia agreed to the terms and conditions of India prior to 2019, today Su 57 would have been a much batter aircraft. Low observability, and batter electronics.
AMCA should be made 24x7 emergency project with more people, funding, facilities, tools, whatever needed, like in real war time scenario.
With some minimum loss, winning against Pakistan is guaranteed. But real problem is China. It is ahead of us in every tech.
What ToT does Russia want to give except engine? We have RAS, RAM, sensors, jammers & EW antennas. DRDO even researching on DEW pod which can be made conformal easily.
If Russia allows us altering the airframe of Su-57 for IAF+IN, then half of our AHCA Mk1 is done.
We just need to start its Mk2.
With some minimum loss, winning against Pakistan is guaranteed. But real problem is China. It is ahead of us in every tech.
What ToT does Russia want to give except engine? We have RAS, RAM, sensors, jammers & EW antennas. DRDO even researching on DEW pod which can be made conformal easily.
If Russia allows us altering the airframe of Su-57 for IAF+IN, then half of our AHCA Mk1 is done.
We just need to start its Mk2.
general nature of work is mainly outsourcing to many smaller firms with specific domain expertise. A jet itself is multi disciplinary technology wise from computer sim cfd to engg drawing of tiny sub parts to various high end electronic and other gadgets to system engg mechanical electrical everything. Once Govt approved now and apparently demanded quicker pace, work can be done at faster pace. But too much hurry would lead to unwanted complication like some faulty lru causing further delay or quicker pace leading to some setback. These are part and parcel of any development project.AMCA should be made 24x7 emergency project with more people, funding, facilities, tools, whatever needed, like in real war time scenario.
With some minimum loss, winning against Pakistan is guaranteed. But real problem is China. It is ahead of us in every tech.
What ToT does Russia want to give except engine? We have RAS, RAM, sensors, jammers & EW antennas. DRDO even researching on DEW pod which can be made conformal easily.
If Russia allows us altering the airframe of Su-57 for IAF+IN, then half of our AHCA Mk1 is done.
HAL has received 24 responses from the indigenous companies for AMCA JV formation, and will bid with it in ADA's EoI which will be released shortly.
www.thehindubusinessline.com
DRDO to soon issue EOI for AMCA, HAL getting ready to bid through a consortium
DRDO's ADA to issue EOI for AMCA production partner, tapping into indigenous aerospace sector for 5.5 generation stealth aircraft.
In theory, yes. But they wouldn't have met our timeline for FGFA.
First, Su-57 needs to finish, then FGFA, then MKIzation, then production. Instead, by pushing Su-57 back, we could negotiate to develop our own industry with Western tech, like AMCA engine JV. Russia will become important later on again, after 2035, but right now we need the West. Russia has no interest in making India technologically sovereign.
Small update on one tender re the engineering design part
I told you before also that various types & levels of techies are seasoned since class-11, so there is no need for non-techies to panic on tech things :
There're tons of S.O.P.s to follow before executing anything. And for every major failure there is RCA (Root Cause Analysis) & "5 WHYs" till root is reached. For example - server failed, WHY? bcoz it went into rolling rebbot, WHY? bcoz RAM overflow, WHY? bcoz memory management module of OS sub-optimal. WHAT NEXT? Patch upgrade if available, or roll-back ot previous stable version.
Every execution step is discussed & documented with contigencies in advance.
Military will be much more vigilant & disciplined.
So relax, don't worry, leave the tech work to techies, just like medical surgery to surgeons.
Its not about the various types, rather the volume of work and different cycle of development. Like not all the fingers on hand are of same size, different development curves will take different time to complete and here the job is putting all together to make a really high end product that is to serve for next 40-50 years. So no matter how much hurry is made, this is going to take time since there is limited exposure and experience within the country for jet manufacturing.
That said, a logical step would be procuring a limited no odf 5th gen jet on offer to us. Almost certainly customization is always included.
It was in the interest of Russia as well. Today, four and half generation Rafale has more demand than Fifth generation Su 57 whcih is cheaper than rafale.
I already said:
If Russia allows us altering the airframe of Su-57 for IAF+IN, then half of our AHCA Mk1 is done.
HOWEVER,
Again let me remind you YF-22 was re-designed in 3 months in 1987 with primitive CAD S/w & made in 3 years 1987-90. This is 2025.
Let's all have this tattood on our hands.
And LM, NG, Boeing, BAe, Dassault, etc are private firms whose engineers have worked very hard.
Hence If you wan't PPP to succeed then please relax & listen to the civil/private techies also
. I'm BE in CT & 20 years into 24x7 Indian IT industry, i know what i'm saying about cycle of S/w & H/w R&D, installation, administration, maintenance, decomissioning, tech refresh.Leave IT industry, look at Steel Plants, Power plants, local electricity grid employees, Railways, Airways, Hospitals. Both the Govt./PSU & private sector are into these 24x7 domains.
But everybody doesn't work 24x7, just the production guys, not the R&D guys who do general shift. Everybody gets 2 week-offs on different days. Whoever doesn't wan't to work 24x7 can raise their concerns to management & look for re-assignments in different project or profile.But in matter of emergency the R&D guys can do 16x5, morning & afternoon shift, which will reduce time by half, no matter what H/w & S/w needed to be researched, tested. it is 2 weeks job in 1 week.
Unless you can explain that apart from humans what exactly needs daily gap/delay.