MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

What is your favorite for MMRCA 2.0 ?

  • F-35 Blk 4

    Votes: 44 16.4%

  • Rafale F4

    Votes: 205 76.5%

  • Eurofighter Typhoon T3

    Votes: 5 1.9%

  • Gripen E/F

    Votes: 5 1.9%

  • F-16 B70

    Votes: 1 0.4%

  • F-18 SH

    Votes: 10 3.7%

  • F-15EX

    Votes: 11 4.1%

  • Mig-35

    Votes: 2 0.7%
  • Total voters
    268
  • Poll closed .
Hydra said:
I dont think our orders does matters anymore now. Its an established aircraft, probably except European who is the development partners of ET & miser countries like India all will opt either F35 or Rafale.
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Depends on how many countries are looking for a strategic partnership with India. Like France and Vietnam are not very friendly with each other. But they may find common ground through India.

Hydra said:
Ok lets beleive your assumption for a debate. We will be signing the deal in 2025 ( if regime change happens, then we will proudly go for new tender), then first the first Rafale will not coming to IAF befor 2028, and asper expectations MK2 will start flying with IAF by 2029. Do you really beleive that HAL & othe rotten desi weapon lobby & twitter warriors will stay quietly? They will definitely advertise mk2 as equivalent mk2 at fraction of expense. The ignorant & illiterate political leadership will do what these lobby is narrating.
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LCA Mk2 and Rafale are not in competition. Twitter warriors are irrelevant.
 
randomradio said:
Depends on how many countries are looking for a strategic partnership with India. Like France and Vietnam are not very friendly with each other. But they may find common ground through India.



LCA Mk2 and Rafale are not in competition. Twitter warriors are irrelevant.
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Yup they aren't in same league or same weight category or even have little common role. Just like phalcon awacs & Netra mk1,mk2. Just like p8-I & DRDO maritime aircraft and a superior platform is dumped just only to satisfy indian's ego.
Who knows that will not happen with mmrca2?
 
Hydra said:
Yup they aren't in same league or same weight category or even have little common role. Just like phalcon awacs & Netra mk1,mk2. Just like p8-I & DRDO maritime aircraft and a superior platform is dumped just only to satisfy indian's ego.
Who knows that will not happen with mmrca2?
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Can't compare all that in the way you're doing it.
 
randomradio said:
Maybe 2-3 years from now. The tender will be out soon.
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Plutonian years, perhaps.

randomradio said:
Depends on how many countries are looking for a strategic partnership with India. Like France and Vietnam are not very friendly with each other. But they may find common ground through India.
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I don't think we'll need India for that.
english.vov.vn

Vietnam, France vow to deepen strategic partnership

VOV.VN - Vietnam and France have vowed to deepen their strategic partnership established in 2013 to bring bilateral relations to new heights towards 50 years of diplomatic ties in 2023, according to a joint statement released on November 5.
english.vov.vn english.vov.vn
 
aninews.in

For its USD 20 billion 114 fighter jet deal, IAF in favour of 'Buy Global Make in India' route

New Delhi [India], April 21 (ANI): For over USD 20 billion tender for manufacturing 114 multi-role fighter aircraft (MRFA) the Indian Air Force (IAF) would prefer to take the 'Buy Global Make in India' route over the strategic partnership policy model to produce the planes within the country.
aninews.in aninews.in
www.indiatoday.in

Make in India IAF's focus for next mega fighter deal

The Indian Air Force is likely to take the the 'Buy Global Make in India' initiative route for its next mega-deal for fighter aircraft.
www.indiatoday.in www.indiatoday.in
 
STEPHEN COHEN said:
aninews.in

For its USD 20 billion 114 fighter jet deal, IAF in favour of 'Buy Global Make in India' route

New Delhi [India], April 21 (ANI): For over USD 20 billion tender for manufacturing 114 multi-role fighter aircraft (MRFA) the Indian Air Force (IAF) would prefer to take the 'Buy Global Make in India' route over the strategic partnership policy model to produce the planes within the country.
aninews.in aninews.in
www.indiatoday.in

Make in India IAF's focus for next mega fighter deal

The Indian Air Force is likely to take the the 'Buy Global Make in India' initiative route for its next mega-deal for fighter aircraft.
www.indiatoday.in www.indiatoday.in
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Means what? No stupid tendering drama?
@randomradio @Picdelamirand-oil
 
A Person said:
I don't think we'll need India for that.

english.vov.vn

Vietnam, France vow to deepen strategic partnership

VOV.VN - Vietnam and France have vowed to deepen their strategic partnership established in 2013 to bring bilateral relations to new heights towards 50 years of diplomatic ties in 2023, according to a joint statement released on November 5.
english.vov.vn english.vov.vn
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I recall bringing this to your attention last year. The bigger choice for Vietnam is the US. The next biggest would be India. Any French-Vietnam relationship will be more commercial than strategic. Meaning, if China goes to war with Vietnam sometime in the 2030s or 40s, only the US and India are capable of rearming Vietnam overtly. So Vietnam is going to consider such factors.

Vietnam has a long term 200-300 fighter jet market potential. And India needs to grab more than 50% of the market if we are to sway them to our side over America. And considering the competition (F-35A, F-15EX, F-16 replacement, Rafale and LCA Mk2) and the timeframe (no TEDBF, AMCA), the Rafale will be essential for India to get a foothold. India also needs to grab their 3000+ amour and artillery market.
 
Hydra said:
Means what? No stupid tendering drama?
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Impossible.

randomradio said:
I recall bringing this to your attention last year. The bigger choice for Vietnam is the US. The next biggest would be India. Any French-Vietnam relationship will be more commercial than strategic. Meaning, if China goes to war with Vietnam sometime in the 2030s or 40s, only the US and India are capable of rearming Vietnam overtly. So Vietnam is going to consider such factors.
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That argument has nothing to do with your supposed lack of friendliness between the two countries.
 
A Person said:
That argument has nothing to do with your supposed lack of friendliness between the two countries.
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I don't believe Vietnam is friendly enough with France to actually commit to a deep relationship, like they can with the US or India. It's a more commercial relationship. The common China threat is bringing the two countries closer, but India has been Vietnam's strategic partner for 4 decades. A benefit of both countries being close to the SU.

I am simply saying Vietnam's not gonna buy 50-100 Rafales for France, but could do so for India.

eurasiantimes.com

Indian Military Base in Vietnam at Cam Ranh Port To Protect Hanoi's Economic and Territorial Interest

Is Indian Military Base in Vietnam at Cam Ranh Port possible after securing access to the strategic Sabang Port in Indonesia? Many countries are keen to have a ‘Naval Base’ in Vietnam including Russia and the US, and there are speculations that Indian Military Base in Vietnam might be possible...
eurasiantimes.com eurasiantimes.com

India basically has enough access to Vietnam's ports and naval bases that there's no limit to how many ships we can station there "temporarily". Meaning, we need to negotiate the duration of the stay, but there's no upper limit.
 
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Hydra said:
20 billion for 114 aircraft? 🙄🙄🙄 what they are trying to procure, Mig35?
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It depends on what is included in the contract. And the habits are different in different supplier countries. For example, the Americans only count the aircraft, and discreetly sign additional contracts far from the media. Whereas the French count everything that is needed for a viable solution.

If we had applied the American method, the 36 Rafale contract with India would have been valued at 3.42 billion euros, and therefore 114 Rafales would be worth €10.83 billion or $11.67 billion.

If we now only remove the ISE and the adaptation work of the Indian bases, because the ISE are already paid and the main cost of the bases was associated with the flight and maintenance training simulators which do not need to be duplicated, then the price of 114 Rafales is $15.4 billion. This figure includes armaments and PBL (Performance Based Logistic).
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
It depends on what is included in the contract. And the habits are different in different supplier countries. For example, the Americans only count the aircraft, and discreetly sign additional contracts far from the media. Whereas the French count everything that is needed for a viable solution.

If we had applied the American method, the 36 Rafale contract with India would have been valued at 3.42 billion euros, and therefore 114 Rafales would be worth €10.83 billion or $11.67 billion.

If we now only remove the ISE and the adaptation work of the Indian bases, because the ISE are already paid and the main cost of the bases was associated with the flight and maintenance training simulators which do not need to be duplicated, then the price of 114 Rafales is $15.4 billion. This figure includes armaments and PBL (Performance Based Logistic).
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I think you will have to include 3 new bases for the first contract of 6 squadrons instead of including the 2 older bases. And with Dassault's pontential new ALIS equivalent system, we may have to increase the cost of the bases.

France and India need to develop a JSE class facility too.
 
randomradio said:
France and India need to develop a JSE class facility too.
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We are doing things in a different way to the Americans, we already have simulations for the development of SPECTRA which are similar to what the Americans are trying to do for the JSE, but in a different way.
We are very attentive to the coverage of our tests but at the same time we are also attentive to the budget that this implies.
 
Picdelamirand-oil said:
We are doing things in a different way to the Americans, we already have simulations for the development of SPECTRA which are similar to what the Americans are trying to do for the JSE, but in a different way.
We are very attentive to the coverage of our tests but at the same time we are also attentive to the budget that this implies.
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The Swiss specifically spoke of the JSE. And it is one of the reasons why the F-35's training time can be reduced by half. If the Rafale had something equivalent to it, then people would have spoken about it. JSE is a threat environment. It doesn't cater to just one particular system or subsystem. It's meant to simulate LFEs with high density threats at a level that's theatre-wide.


In any case, with the massive export success of the Rafale, developing a JSE type environment should be the next step. And a JSE is of immense benefit to both AAE/MN and IAF/IN as a whole. This is one area where a joint development program can be done if Rafale is contracted.

As for money, it's all mostly software, the hardware is cheap. All we gotta do is write millions and millions of lines of code.
 
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