Math doesn't lie, you know that.
Even if speculative at this time, the Rafale losing to the F-35 on cost is still far more probable than any other explanation.
Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
- Thread starter Herciv
- Start date
-
- Tags
- indian defence forum
Math doesn't lie, you know that.
Even if speculative at this time, the Rafale losing to the F-35 on cost is still far more probable than any other explanation.
BFM business is a financial publication that gives advice on the stock market, not really weapons specialists. Also they confuse a bit the established facts with what might happen.
Everything is speculative by nature unless details released publically. Some relevant information was released on Twitter by knowledgeable Finn defence members and Finish MOD which were posted in the thread by me as well. Rest is speculations, trying furiously and going over & over again in same circle like never ending dream!?!
Yes its up to US, wheather to sell us or not.
Last 49-50 year history & by seeing present economic condition of Russia, i have strong reason to believe that F35 will out smart, outgun the su57 anyday.
This probability is subjective: you are convinced that proposing only 43 Rafales would be eliminatory, which is why you feel that the probability is high that the Rafale will be eliminated because of the cost. But I think that eliminating an aircraft a priori on the pretext that there will be too few to effectively defend Finland goes against the philosophy of the tests, which is to trust the results of the simulation to choose the fleet with the best performance.
And as all the candidates had to make a non-eliminatory offer in terms of cost, I think that the Rafale was eliminated on another criterion, otherwise it would have been the simulation that eliminated it for insufficient results.
Twist their arm? You mean bribe them like Dassault does?
Dassault Aviation used false invoices to bribe middleman for ..
Dassault Aviation used false invoices to bribe middleman for sale of 36 Rafale jets; Indian agencies did not probe kickback charges | India News - Times of India
India News: French portal Mediapart on Monday claimed in a new report that it has evidence of kickbacks being paid by French aircraft manufacturer Dassault Aviati
timesofindia.indiatimes.com
Bribery scandal shakes fighters deal - UPI.com
A South Korean military official was arrested on charges of receiving bribes from France's Dassault Aviation, a company that was considered one of the contender
www.upi.com
No arm twisting for Swiss or Finns all they did is take a look at your plane and said NON!
It is? That's funny the Swiss and Finns think that about your plane.
There's no plan to offer you the F-35 as of yet and you Indians are the ones that pulled out the Pakfa program I you forgotten why already?
When has the US given the IAF demonstrations of the F-35?
We know for a fact it's impossible for the Finnish to buy 64 Rafales for less than $11B. My argument would have failed if and only if the Finnish had bought less than 64 F-35s.
Was offered. We never bit. If it wasn't offered, then there would be no presentations.
Since the beginning.
We recently had a tri-services exercise with the RN's F-35Bs. It's a pretty big deal since we don't generally exercise that way with foreign militaries.
India, UK conduct mega tri-services wargame in Arabian Sea
Indian Navy's MiG 29K jets, the Royal Navy's F-35B aircraft and Indian Air Force's SU-30 and Jaguar fighters were among the key assets deployed for the exercise
www.livemint.com
Anyway--
Lockheed Offering F-35 to India | Air & Space Forces Magazine
Audio of this article is brought to you by the Air & Space Forces Association, honoring and supporting our Airmen, Guardians, and their families. Find out more at afa.orgLockheed Martin intends to offer the Indian Navy the F-35 strike fighter....
www.airforcemag.com
View topic - India to join JSF effort? • F-16.net
Military aviation forum since 2003, with high quality discussion focusing on the F-16, F-35 and F-22 jet fighters and the C-130.
www.f-16.net
"There is nothing on our side, no principle which bars that on our side, Indian participation in the Joint Strike Fighter. Right now, they're focused on these aircraft which are top-of-the-line fourth-gen fighters," Carter said.
In a follow-up email, Pentagon spokeswoman Cheryl Irwin said, "If, at some point down the road, India were interested in purchasing JSF from us, then we would engage the Indians in an open, transparent manner at that time. But this would obviously be something that the Indian government would have to decide it wanted or needed."
The US backed out because of Russian participation in Indian Navy's tender. It was conveyed to the IN that the F-35 will be offered in a GTG outside the competition, if requested.
Anyway, all these offers were made because the US govt wanted to prevent India from buying more MKIs and entering the Su-57 program, but failed. We proceeded to buy 82 more MKIs and signed an agreement with Russia in 2010 for FGFA. Our intention was to develop a fighter far more capable than what the F-35 offered with Russian help. As you can see, American offers continued even post the 2010 agreement. Interestingly, while we were under tremendous pressure from both sides, our argument was we are not interested in jets that are still WIP. So with both the Su-57 and F-35 still in development, we easily escaped from political pressure by saying that we will wait for development of the jets to complete before deciding. We further reduced pressure on ourselves by claiming that we aren't interested in importing next gen capability.
The F-35 has been on offer to India for years. We are now a NATO-equivalent partner for export of defence equipment. So whatever the US has offered NATO, Israel, Japan etc, we can get the same stuff, and it includes the F-35. The choice is India's.
This was just an exercise not a demonstration to entice IAF into getting interested in the F-35.Was offered. We never bit. If it wasn't offered, then there would be no presentations.
Since the beginning.
We recently had a tri-services exercise with the RN's F-35Bs. It's a pretty big deal since we don't generally exercise that way with foreign militaries.
“Personnel of all three services from both countries were participating in the tri-service exercise and described it as the “most ambitious conducted by the two countries to date," the British High Commission said.India, UK conduct mega tri-services wargame in Arabian Sea
Indian Navy's MiG 29K jets, the Royal Navy's F-35B aircraft and Indian Air Force's SU-30 and Jaguar fighters were among the key assets deployed for the exercise
Lol. They are using The Press Trust of India as the source and it's the only source to make this BS claim. LM has never offered the F-35 to India.... yet.Anyway--
Lockheed Martin intends to offer the Indian Navy the F-35 strike fighter. The Press Trust of India reported Monday that Lockheed will respond to the Indian Navy’s request for information on a carrier-based combat aircraft by proposing the F-35. It cited Lockheed vice president Orville Prins as saying in New Delhi that the company had already given presentations to the Indians on both the F-35B short-takeoff variant and the F-35C, which is optimized for large-deck carrier operations.Lockheed Offering F-35 to India | Air & Space Forces Magazine
Audio of this article is brought to you by the Air & Space Forces Association, honoring and supporting our Airmen, Guardians, and their families. Find out more at afa.orgLockheed Martin intends to offer the Indian Navy the F-35 strike fighter....
Lockheed Martin denies offering India fifth-generation F-35 fighter
US firm sticks with older F-16 in Indian "single-engine fighter" tender
Lol.
Lockheed Martin denies offering India fifth-generation F-35 fighter
US firm sticks with older F-16 in Indian "single-engine fighter" tender
Has never been offered then or offered now/recently but nice try.
You also believe in Le tooth fairy and Santa Clause so your delusional mind believing that 43 french planes are more efficient than 64 F-35's is just your bruised ego's wishful thinking.
India imposes penalty for offsets delay in Rafale fighter deal - Times of India
India has imposed a penalty for delay in fulfilling offsets commitments in the euro 7.8 billion deal for 36 French Rafale fighters, as part of the overall new policy to tighten the screws on defaulting armament majors. The fine has been “imposed and collected” from missile-maker MBDA, which is...
m.timesofindia.com
I posted the same yesterday here, and got deleted, the reason is " double post ".India imposes penalty for offsets delay in Rafale fighter deal - Times of India
India has imposed a penalty for delay in fulfilling offsets commitments in the euro 7.8 billion deal for 36 French Rafale fighters, as part of the overall new policy to tighten the screws on defaulting armament majors. The fine has been “imposed and collected” from missile-maker MBDA, which is...
Doesn't matter. You are confusing demonstration with evaluation. An exercise comes with its own pack of secrets. You wouldn't be exercising with the Russians or Chinese would ya?
Lol. They are using The Press Trust of India as the source and it's the only source to make this BS claim. LM has never offered the F-35 to India.... yet.
Lockheed Martin denies offering India fifth-generation F-35 fighter
US firm sticks with older F-16 in Indian "single-engine fighter" tenderwww.business-standard.com
Press Trust of India reperesents most of the Indian media.
Press Trust of India - Wikipedia
So yeah, Ashton Carter, Orville Prins and Cheryl Irwin are liars according to you.
Lol.
Lockheed Martin denies offering India fifth-generation F-35 fighter
US firm sticks with older F-16 in Indian "single-engine fighter" tender
Has never been offered then or offered now/recently but nice try.
Lol, that's for MRFA. Where the IAF asked only for... "top-of-the-line fourth-gen fighters," Carter said.
This is your usual post is bad faith. So congrats on your credibility.
The Finnish didn't agree though.
So glad that France isn't a vassal state and reliant on the US
"WASHINGTON, December 21, 2021 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of France of Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS), Advanced Arresting Gear (AAG), and related equipment for an estimated cost of $1.321 billion. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale today.
"WASHINGTON, December 21, 2021 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of France of Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS), Advanced Arresting Gear (AAG), and related equipment for an estimated cost of $1.321 billion. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale today.
US and UK hold back when exercising with non-allies remember US F-15s getting "defeated" by your Flankers?
Which means nothing.
Press Trust of India - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
So yeah, Ashton Carter, Orville Prins and Cheryl Irwin are liars according to you.
They work for Indian press and it's the only source.
US Never Offered India F-35 Jets, Unlikely it Would Share Technology: India’s Joint Defence Chief - ELE Times
Indian media has reported in the past that New Delhi has on several occasions expressed interest in acquiring the F-35 fifth-generation
www.eletimes.com
Even Indian's military top Jefe (RIP) said US has never offered F-35 because US would likely not share its technology so then why the hell would US/LM offer India the F-35 years before that? Because it didn't happened.
So the Pentagon is not a source...
Yeah, the upper limits of stupidity can be expected only from you.
The Indian article is THE ONLY source. There's no other, sunshine.
You left out your former Indian military Jefe (RIP) who said the F-35 has never been offered by the US because we would likely not share the technology the F-35 carries. So why on errf (lol) would you think the US would offer Indian Navy the F-35B and F-35C years previous?
The source airforcemag is using is from India and it's the only source! Get it now? Just like India is the only source where they claim it shot down a PAF F-16 when US and others say... say what?
Check out the dates when Gen Rawat made those comments followed by when did LM / Pentagon / US State Department / DoD responded to it .
Then check out the dates of those posts with links reporting when those presentations were made .