MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

What is your favorite for MMRCA 2.0 ?

  • F-35 Blk 4

    Votes: 28 12.3%
  • Rafale F4

    Votes: 180 78.9%
  • Eurofighter Typhoon T3

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • Gripen E/F

    Votes: 6 2.6%
  • F-16 B70

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • F-18 SH

    Votes: 10 4.4%
  • F-15EX

    Votes: 7 3.1%
  • Mig-35

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    228
The UAE hesitated for a long time between the Rafale and the F-35 and decided on the F-35 at the last moment of Trump's reign. Biden blocked the deal and since then there has been a lot of bad news about the F-35. So a good surprise with the UAE is possible.

For Saudi Arabia it is the Leclerc tank that interests them because the UAE used it in Yemen and that impressed all the military in contrast to the other tanks that had setbacks.

But the assembly line is stopped so I don't know if we would be able to satisfy their demand.
At present, the Saudi Arabian Air Force's Tornado IDS fighter bomber is obsolete, and the British are proposing to sell 72 additional Eurofighters, but the contract has not yet been reached. France's Rafale can also be expected to sell as a replacement for Tornado IDS. Of course, from the perspective of Saudi Arabia, the introduction of an additional F-15 or Eurofighter would be a better choice in terms of the military supply system.
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At present, the Saudi Arabian Air Force's Tornado IDS fighter bomber is obsolete, and the British are proposing to sell 72 additional Eurofighters, but the contract has not yet been reached. France's Rafale can also be expected to sell as a replacement for Tornado IDS. Of course, from the perspective of Saudi Arabia, the introduction of an additional F-15 or Eurofighter would be a better choice in terms of the military supply system.
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Yes but the Germans are blocking the sale of new Typhoons :ROFLMAO:
 
Will Rafale be sold to Saudi Arabia?
According to the article, the French president will visit Saudi Arabia and the UAE soon and will offer to sell Rafale fighters instead of the F-35 to Saudi Arabia, whose diplomatic relations with the United States have recently waned. How likely do you think Rafale will actually be sold to Saudi Arabia? Currently, Saudi Arabia is already operating the 4.5th generation fighter jets, the F-15SA and Eurofighter. Are there any gaps for Rafale? And is the Saudis actually seeing the Rafale as a suitable replacement for the F-35?

https://fr.sputniknews.com/international/202103171045362547-vente-de-f35-et-darmes-de-precision-la-france-pourra-t-elle-doubler-les-americains-dans-le-golfe /
France seeks to take advantage of imbalance in US-Saudi ties
View attachment 19588
UAE is the only target for a potential Rafale sell.
SA is fully equipped with EF2000 and F15. It is a private garden for english and more important for US air products. No way for Rafale there. A lack of energy....
At present, the Saudi Arabian Air Force's Tornado IDS fighter bomber is obsolete, and the British are proposing to sell 72 additional Eurofighters, but the contract has not yet been reached. France's Rafale can also be expected to sell as a replacement for Tornado IDS. Of course, from the perspective of Saudi Arabia, the introduction of an additional F-15 or Eurofighter would be a better choice in terms of the military supply system.
View attachment 19593
In the air to ground mission and deep strike Rafale is far more potent than EF2000. But it's not a free open market.
 
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UAE is the only target for a potential Rafale sell.
SA is fully equipped with EF2000 and F15. It is a private garden for english and more important for US air products. No way for Rafale there. A lack of energy....

In the air to ground mission and deep strike Rafale is far more potent than EF2000. But it's not a free open market.
I agree that Rafale's air-to-ground abilities are stronger than Eurofighters. The Eurofighter's air-to-ground armament capabilities are still very limited. The integration of SCALP-EG is also very recent, almost 10 years behind Rafale.
If the UAE buys Rafale, it's probably a replacement for the Mirage 2000-9. The UAE will purchase at least 50 Rafales. Is the Mirage 2000-9 upgrade contract currently in progress? If so, the conclusion of the Rafale contract will be quite far away. Perhaps Qatar could also consider the option to purchase 36 additional Rafales (24+12+36 = 72 in total) signed at the time of the 2015 contract.
 
Yes. If a contract for supplying Rafale in Saudi Arabia and the UAE is signed, it will be necessary to expand Rafale production lines. Maybe in India
I agree that Rafale's air-to-ground abilities are stronger than Eurofighters. The Eurofighter's air-to-ground armament capabilities are still very limited. The integration of SCALP-EG is also very recent, almost 10 years behind Rafale.
If the UAE buys Rafale, it's probably a replacement for the Mirage 2000-9. The UAE will purchase at least 50 Rafales. Is the Mirage 2000-9 upgrade contract currently in progress? If so, the conclusion of the Rafale contract will be quite far away. Perhaps Qatar could also consider the option to purchase 36 additional Rafales (24+12+36 = 72 in total) signed at the time of the 2015 contract.

There's a lot of potential for the sale of Rafale in the Middle East and SE Asia.

I believe that any potential for the Saudis to own Rafales will depend on what Iran does over the next 2 years.

But one thing that sticks out is none of these ME air forces have a modern SEAD/DEAD capable fighter and only the F-35 and Rafale can fulfill that role at this time. The Iranian ADGE has changed drastically over the years and will likely be further supplemented by the S-400. There's no way the UAE/Saudi jets can penetrate their ADGE with their existing inventory.
 
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중동과 동남아 지역에서 라팔을 판매 할 가능성이 많습니다.

사우디가 라 팔레스를 소유 할 가능성은 앞으로 2 년 동안이란이 무엇을 하느냐에 달려 있다고 생각합니다.

그러나 눈에 띄는 한 가지는 이러한 ME 공군 중 어느 것도 현대적인 SEAD / DEAD 가능 전투기를 가지고 있지 않으며 현재로서는 F-35와 Rafale만이 그 역할을 수행 할 수 있다는 것입니다. 이란의 ADGE는 수년에 걸쳐 크게 변경되었으며 S-400으로 추가로 보완 될 것입니다. UAE / 사우디 제트기가 기존 재고로 ADGE를 관통 할 수있는 방법은 없습니다.

Rafale has proven very good in the SEAD / DEAD missions in Libya and the Levant. However, countries that are considering purchasing Rafale will have doubts about the ability of the non-stealth aircraft to break through advanced air defense networks in the future. If France also develops Rafale's escort electronic warfare aircraft versions such as EA-18 Growler and Eurofighter ECR, which will further enhance Rafale's survivability in SEAD / DEAD missions. Then, Rafale will attract the attention of many countries, and the possibility of overseas sales will increase even more before the FCAS launch.
Rafale-F4-proposal.jpg
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Rafale has proven very good in the SEAD / DEAD missions in Libya and the Levant. However, countries that are considering purchasing Rafale will have doubts about the ability of the non-stealth aircraft to break through advanced air defense networks in the future. If France also develops Rafale's escort electronic warfare aircraft versions such as EA-18 Growler and Eurofighter ECR, which will further enhance Rafale's survivability in SEAD / DEAD missions. Then, Rafale will attract the attention of many countries, and the possibility of overseas sales will increase even more before the FCAS launch.
View attachment 19595View attachment 19596

The Rafale doesn't need the the Typhoon's ECR upgrades or the Growler.

It is capable of SEAD/DEAD on its own.
 
The Rafale doesn't need the the Typhoon's ECR upgrades or the Growler.

It is capable of SEAD/DEAD on its own.
Of course, Rafale's ability to perform SEAD/DEAD using Spectra+hammer is still very strong. But in the future advanced air defense environment, that may not be enough. If Rafale has a dedicated wide-area attack jamming pod with powerful power, anti-radar missiles, and decoys, Rafale will become more powerful in the future. Currently, France does not own these. The French anti-radar missile was retired in 1998 without a successor. The attached document also highlights that point. See pages 32-41. In fact, according to the document, France raised the need several times to create an attack jamming pod apart from Spectra, but this has not been realized. Rafale will probably need this in the future.

Les armées françaises face aux menaces anti-aériennes de nouvelle génération
 

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  • Les armées françaises face aux menaces anti-aériennes de nouvelle génération.pdf
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Of course, Rafale's ability to perform SEAD/DEAD using Spectra+hammer is still very strong. But in the future advanced air defense environment, that may not be enough. If Rafale has a dedicated wide-area attack jamming pod with powerful power, anti-radar missiles, and decoys, Rafale will become more powerful in the future. Currently, France does not own these. The French anti-radar missile was retired in 1998 without a successor. The attached document also highlights that point. See pages 32-41. In fact, according to the document, France raised the need several times to create an attack jamming pod apart from Spectra, but this has not been realized. Rafale will probably need this in the future.

Les armées françaises face aux menaces anti-aériennes de nouvelle génération

The Rafale has all the EW capability needed already. The only thing missing is low band jamming and that will come through pods, which is the case for all aircraft, since the antennas needed are big.

France experimented with many of these things you mentioned through the Mirage program and later gave it up because the Rafale superceded these capabilities.

As for ARM, it's not necessary since the Hammer is much more accurate for the role while the aircraft provides the targeting necessary. In the future, a Hammer-like solution will be used for SEAD/DEAD by other air forces, for example the British plan to use SPEAR 3 with their F-35s.
 
The Rafale has all the EW capability needed already. The only thing missing is low band jamming and that will come through pods, which is the case for all aircraft, since the antennas needed are big.

France experimented with many of these things you mentioned through the Mirage program and later gave it up because the Rafale superceded these capabilities.

As for ARM, it's not necessary since the Hammer is much more accurate for the role while the aircraft provides the targeting necessary. In the future, a Hammer-like solution will be used for SEAD/DEAD by other air forces, for example the British plan to use SPEAR 3 with their F-35s.
Do hammer have the capability to perform radar homing?
And do we have any home grown plan to develope hammer type powered bomb units?
 
The Rafale has all the EW capability needed already. The only thing missing is low band jamming and that will come through pods, which is the case for all aircraft, since the antennas needed are big.

France experimented with many of these things you mentioned through the Mirage program and later gave it up because the Rafale superceded these capabilities.

As for ARM, it's not necessary since the Hammer is much more accurate for the role while the aircraft provides the targeting necessary. In the future, a Hammer-like solution will be used for SEAD/DEAD by other air forces, for example the British plan to use SPEAR 3 with their F-35s.
If the RAF had the option, the AARGM-ER would have been preferred over Spear 3. The F-35B is currently unable to operate the AARGM-ER. India has also developed its own ARM RUDRAM. Compared to ARM, the hammer has no radar homing capability and lacks a range, so it is insufficient in terms of survivability. If Rafale has its own ARM, it is much safer to perform SEAD operations over long ranges.

Rudram.jpg
 
If the RAF had the option, the AARGM-ER would have been preferred over Spear 3. The F-35B is currently unable to operate the AARGM-ER. India has also developed its own ARM RUDRAM. Compared to ARM, the hammer has no radar homing capability and lacks a range, so it is insufficient in terms of survivability. If Rafale has its own ARM, it is much safer to perform SEAD operations over long ranges.

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Although it's safer to do anything at long range, the main goal is to kill the SAM site, and this is best done effectively at short range.

The problem is the kill probability of ARMs is very low, even lower than BVR missiles, since SAMs tend to turn off their radars and disappear. So the longer the range you engage a SAM site, the greater the chance for the SAM to initiate countermeasures.

It has always been a good idea to kill SAMs at short range, which is actually the point of having stealth in the first place. And with the Hammer, you get a very short reaction time and a near-100% kill ratio.

Most countries are working on ARMs right now, including India, because most air forces do not have stealth aircraft. The F-22 does not use HARMs for SEAD/DEAD, it uses SDB I, and the Hammer is far, far more advanced than the SDB I since the Hammer is powered and has a seeker. Basically, what I'm saying is with 5th gen capability, you do not need the low success capabilities like long range ARMs.

Rafale has stealthy capabilities and its Hammer does the same job as the SDB does for the F-22.

Currently, only the F-22, F-35 and Rafale are capable of performing SEAD/DEAD at short range. And right now, because of the Hammer, only the Rafale is capable of performing SEAD/DEAD at the shortest range in certain cases. It's because the Rafale can fire the Hammer without line of sight, whereas the F-22's and F-35's SDBs require line of sight. The Hammer acts as a missile and can climb obstacles using its own power, so the Rafale can fire at a SAM site while hiding. The SPEAR 3 will give the F-35 Hammer-like capabilities in the long run.
Thats interesting actually. Can you pls provide the details?

SAAW is gonna be upgraded with a seeker and a rocket motor over the next few years. It will be our equivalent of both the StormBreaker and SPEAR 3. Currently, it's like SDB I.

The same is likely to happen with many other PGMs of varying weights.
 
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Does it have ARMs compatibility?
And what are the options to choose from?
@kor4116 has rightly brought that issue. It’s always better to have options

The Rafale doesn't really need it. But if necessary, our version will obviously carry DRDO's NGARM. As for other air forces, it doesn't matter from our perspective.

There were rumours of the ALARM for the Rafale, which turned out to be fake news.

The only good thing about ARMs is it's a cheap way to force SAM operators to shut down their radars or move away from their position. So other aircraft carrying ARMs can perform that job already, including M2000s for the French. In either case, the SAM operators know they are under attack. But with the Rafale, they won't have any idea when they were targeted until the missiles are right on top of them.

That's the point of having stealth. It's all about finding the most effective way to kill SAMs without being detected.
 
The Rafale doesn't really need it. But if necessary, our version will obviously carry DRDO's NGARM. As for other air forces, it doesn't matter from our perspective.

There were rumours of the ALARM for the Rafale, which turned out to be fake news.

The only good thing about ARMs is it's a cheap way to force SAM operators to shut down their radars or move away from their position. So other aircraft carrying ARMs can perform that job already, including M2000s for the French. In either case, the SAM operators know they are under attack. But with the Rafale, they won't have any idea when they were targeted until the missiles are right on top of them.

That's the point of having stealth. It's all about finding the most effective way to kill SAMs without being detected.
As you said, it’s cheaper and very effective way to force enemy to switch off its radars in fear of ARM attack.
I brings new ways to do SEAD and DEAD ops
We must integrate our own NGARM (aka Rudram 1) to Rafale and all other platforms for mission flexibility