Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

Even that seems too much.

Look at how much range is lost for just some extra missiles.
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6 missiles at most for 90+% of the missions. So 2+2+2 or 4+2. In some missions, it could be 4+2+2, but it's gonna be very rare. All of them with minimum 2 tanks.

With only few Rafales , this 6+6 won't become reality?
 
GBU-12 costs much lesser than $25000. Dunno where that journo got the cost from.

EDIT: Both seem to be fake figures.

The problem with the price of the hammer is that it has been produced in small series at the moment and most of the time journalists divide the total cost of the programme by the number of missiles produced. But the cost of development is never charged to the export market.

According to French Senate's Comité des Prix de Revient des fabrications d'Armement (CPRA) cited by the daily La Tribune, the total cost of the AASM program including development costs and the delivery of 2348 kits is €846m.[12] On that basis the per-weapon cost is $300,000 or twelve times the cost of the comparable American JDAM, although the latter has been manufactured in much larger quantities (~250,000 kits) and would be reasonable to expect a drastic reduction of the price of the French munition if larger contracts are signed and economies of scale are achieved.[13]

The 2012 defence budget presented to the Senate reported the project had cost €592.2m (~US$800m) with a unit cost of €164,000, or €252,000 including development costs.[1]

This example shows that, depending on whether or not development is counted, the price of the Hammer varies from €252,000 to €164,000. And the cost will decrease for the next batch and the price will go down, especially as the make in India applies.
 
The price differences that can be seen on the AASM are due to the fact that the French DGA launched an "AASM EVOLUTION" programme in 2017 with the aim of reducing the unit cost of the AASM without modifying its performance. It is the prices resulting from this programme that the journalist went looking for.
This agreement is a winner for the Ministry of Defense, which will see the price of AASM reduced by around 30%, according to concordant sources. "This order leads the manufacturer to develop a new armament standard allowing a very significant reduction in its cost with identical performances" , explained on January 5 in a press release the DGA without giving further details. An AASM bomb could be worth around 80,000 euros excluding tax, against 120,000 euros currently. How does Safran manage to reduce the cost of the program? Mainly by changing a certain number of components that will be cheaper to produce, we explained to La Tribune. But also by giving visibility to the industrialist.
 
With only few Rafales , this 6+6 won't become reality?

There's no point to doing that. 2 Rafales with a combined 8+4 missiles is enough to deal with 4 different threats at BVR ranges. And it will be supported by other jets as well, like the MKI with Astra and Derby ER, and other jets. So networking is more important than just carrying more number of missiles.
 
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Didn't happen. At the very least, Shiv Aroor would have reported it. He's pretty much the official Rafale journo for India.
Refer to post number 1984. There were others reporting the negotiations as well.



 
Refer to post number 1984. There were others reporting the negotiations as well.




Yeah, it just says the Hammer is an option. Nothing about there being any negotiations or orders for it. The plan was to always integrate Indian weapons, and this time Hammer is only part of the Emergency package which was initiated only a few months ago.
 
The price differences that can be seen on the AASM are due to the fact that the French DGA launched an "AASM EVOLUTION" programme in 2017 with the aim of reducing the unit cost of the AASM without modifying its performance. It is the prices resulting from this programme that the journalist went looking for.

If AASM is indeed so cheap, then we can see it replacing the SPICE kit for future inventories.
 
Yeah, it just says the Hammer is an option. Nothing about there being any negotiations or orders for it. The plan was to always integrate Indian weapons, and this time Hammer is only part of the Emergency package which was initiated only a few months ago.
Option is there only because some discussion took place on purchase. If it wasn't on the table, they had no need to mention it at all.
 
Option is there only because some discussion took place on purchase. If it wasn't on the table, they had no need to mention it at all.

Of course. The entire inventory of the Rafale was part of the negotiations since 2012, including the GTG afterwards.

The Hammer component did not go anywhere though, which is why it wasn't part of the contract in 2016. This Hammer contract is brand new and has no bearing on MMRCA or GTG.
 
Of course. The entire inventory of the Rafale was part of the negotiations since 2012, including the GTG afterwards.

The Hammer component did not go anywhere though, which is why it wasn't part of the contract in 2016. This Hammer contract is brand new and has no bearing on MMRCA or GTG.
Who claimed HAMMER deal had any bearing on MMRCA or GTG? I don't know from where did you brought that in discussion and what is difficult there to understand in previous posts. It's clearly mentioned already that no deal was signed earlier and new deal might have been signed recently, no exact deal signing date is given to best of my knowledge till now.
 
For Second Hand F 16s , US approval is required

And these J 10s will be flown by Chinese pilots , taking off from PAF bases

Once a Conflict starts , it will very quickly turn into a Two Front Situation

The idea is to Hurt India -- TOGETHER
in the Shortest possible period of 5 to 7 days before US intervention
They won't. The time to train and accustom the Pakistanis will take atleast 3 months which is quite long in my opinion. The j16 and j10 will literally be useless like their kj 100 simply because they won't be trained . The majority of the heavy lifting will be done by f16's while the jf 17 will act as the cannon fodder. The situation only changes if Pakistan tries to capture mil positions using it's army that's where they some interoperability...
 
Who claimed HAMMER deal had any bearing on MMRCA or GTG? I don't know from where did you brought that in discussion and what is difficult there to understand in previous posts. It's clearly mentioned already that no deal was signed earlier and new deal might have been signed recently, no exact deal signing date is given to best of my knowledge till now.

This is what you said: India had already negotiated the procurement & delivery of HAMMER weapons long back(negotiations were reported in local media as far as back in 2017).

There was no negotiation for the Hammer. It was only an option to be exercised in the future if necessary. End of story.
 
This is what you said: India had already negotiated the procurement & delivery of HAMMER weapons long back(negotiations were reported in local media as far as back in 2017).

There was no negotiation for the Hammer. It was only an option to be exercised in the future if necessary. End of story.
Again, refer to post 1993 which was in reply to @Bon Plan , clearly mentioned agreement signing happened recently in most probability. If anyone would read my posts carefully, they will understand that I was and am still trying to piece things together simply because we don't have enough information in public domain except media reporting on when the deal's negotiations and signing happened. Also clearly mentioned "can't confirm with accuracy though." Perhaps you seem to miss important facts of the posts. And then you are trying to insert GTG and MMRCA in HAMMER deal by yourself which is not relevant to my posts at all. How's that relevant for you?

Negotiations don't always lead to deal signing, they are sometimes meant to understand the platform, systems and/or weapon itself to assist in feasibility study and if deal is to be signed and compress the time frame from negotiations initiation to deal signing. Most of the times such negotiations are not even reported in earnest. It's simple business logic, I know because I deal with it daily.
 
How will troops on the front line with SAMS or anti aircraft guns identify friends or foes as we share some aircrafts with the bat eaters ?
I was reading that western airforces dont prefer BVR missiles with extended ranges as chance of friendly fire increase.
 
Do you prefer this one?

Rafale_super_load5b.jpg

What would be the combat range of rafale in this configuration? i.e with a single 1200 ltr eft.. nd as depicted above .. i think two micas ir under chin of air intake is nvr been operational.. this is the first time im seeing mica under air intake hard points...

I guess these hard points were only reserved for targeting pods.. unlike typhoon which can carry 4 meteors combined under it's belly ..

Nd can rafale emulate something like f-21 triple missile launcher
Screenshot_2020-07-24-13-26-47-69_e116ac55a5c3bcfe96b7350378c7715f.jpg


... As rafale can be seen with triple launcher of hammer 250 pgms...

What would be the drag panelty on rafale if it emulates triple missile launchers a la f-21.. with meteors or mica in triple configuration.. ?
 
HAMMER is freaking expensive.
French newspaper La Tribune reported in 2017 that Safran intended to reduce the cost of a single AAASM from 120,000 Euros to around 80,000 Euros a piece. In comparison, the US-built GBU-12 230kg bomb costs around 50,000 Euros a piece.

80k€ for a missile against 50k€ for a LGB. Not so bad.
 
are there any add on jammers other than spectra in deal ?
NO.
No need for. Spectra is enough to protect the bird.
It is interesting to analyse the name SPECTRA itself : System de Protection Et d'Evitement des Conduites de Tir du Rafale : Sytem of protection and avoidance of targeting system of the Rafale. => As shown in some international exercices, and especially one against British EF2000 : it's not impossible to see the Rafale on the chaser radar (but at a shorter distance because it is LO), but it was quite impossible to the EF2000 to lock the Rafale ! so impossible to fire.
... As rafale can be seen with triple launcher of hammer 250 pgms...

What would be the drag panelty on rafale if it emulates triple missile launchers a la f-21.. with meteors or mica in triple configuration.. ?
If Rafale can use triple pylon for Hammer, it is possible to study a triple new pylon for Meteor. Why New? Because Meteor is lighter than Hammer (half the weight) so a lighter pylon is enough. But there is no official need so far.
 
Wo
Wouldn't it be cheaper for them to buy second hand f16's rather than j10 considering the Pakistanis will not have any experience on them. And the Pakistanis also don't trust chini electronics themselves this might be another fantasy dream created by those peedf mullahs...
F16 don't allow them to have better weapon than Aim 120 C.. meanwhile Chinese can offer Pl15.. recant predict effectiveness of the weapons package.. but it's still a threat if It Is real..