Wiser after Balakot, India orders missiles worth $700 million from Russia

Arvind said:
Sir with due respect, what kind of explanation is this? Where treachery comes into picture in a hostile environment where enemy is supposed to use all tactical and strategic means to retaliate in an effective manner.

Do you mean use of all stand off weapon is treachery? What is the purpose of having 100Km + BVR in your arsenal and still has to go close to enemy aircrafts?
Click to expand...
Please read carefully what I wrote. I have supported what you have replied. IAF should have engaged them the moment they realised that this large formation was going to attack our formations and should not have waited for PAF to fire first given the history of treachery of muslims. Hoping that they will play by the book is stupidity of highest order.
 
vstol Jockey said:
Please read carefully what I wrote. I have supported what you have replied. IAF should have engaged them the moment they realised that this large formation was going to attack our formations and should not have waited for PAF to fire first given the history of treachery of muslims. Hoping that they will play by the book is stupidity of highest order.
Click to expand...

IAF should have engaged them even if if they were pious Buddhist. Any fighter taking off in Pakistan after Balakot strike must be painted as hostile, common sense says so. Where is the accountability and why we let go our planners who didn't play by the rule book?

For God sake, they had just intruded and bombed a sovereign country with credible deterrence, such show of unpreparedness and indecisiveness is plain criminal.

The disagreement between me and you is not on what should have been done, but the reasoning why it was not done (some treachery stuff).
 
  • Agree
Reactions: R!cK
Arvind said:
IAF should have engaged them even if if they were pious Buddhist. Any fighter taking off in Pakistan after Balakot strike must be painted as hostile, common sense says so. Where is the accountability and why we let go our planners who didn't play by the rule book?

For God sake, they had just intruded and bombed a sovereign country with credible deterrence, such show of unpreparedness and indecisiveness is plain criminal.

The disagreement between me and you is not on what should have been done, but the reasoning why it was not done (some treachery stuff).
Click to expand...
Treachary was with respect to historical incidents. And it was used ina sense to show that IAF should have engaged them proactively instead of giving the chance to fire first. We should have counter attacked even before they had withdrawn.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bali78 and Yashpatel604
vstol Jockey said:
Treachary was with respect to historical incidents. And it was used ina sense to show that IAF should have engaged them proactively instead of giving the chance to fire first. We should have counter attacked even before they had withdrawn.
Click to expand...

Fully agree with the bold part, now where is the accountability?
 
Arvind said:
Fully agree with the bold part, now where is the accountability?
Click to expand...
Accountability is in Abhinandan and 2019 GE. The whole game changed the moment he was captured by PA. If he had not been captured, Pakistan would have seen some really nasty days. It may not have been on the map today. You don't know what all was planned and decided in the aftermath of the 27th strike on our forward formations. But capture of Abhi in bleeding in captivity gave the opposition in India which gets paid by ISI a handle to hit Modi. The strikes planned for night of 27th were postoned and the focus shifted to release of Abhi.
Bakray kee amma, kab tak khair manayegi. Pak will not have an Abhi excuse everytime.
 
  • Like
Reactions: madrao99, Bali78 and Sathya
vstol Jockey said:
Accountability is in Abhinandan and 2019 GE. The whole game changed the moment he was captured by PA. If he had not been captured, Pakistan would have seen some really nasty days. It may not have been on the map today.
Click to expand...

Sir, I am asking for accountability for the lapse shown by IAF in letting PAF strike and flee. Retaliation, or lack of it, is another topic.

Who was responsible to chalk out armed forcess readiness aftermath Balakot strikes?
 
vstol Jockey said:
Accountability is in Abhinandan and 2019 GE. The whole game changed the moment he was captured by PA. If he had not been captured, Pakistan would have seen some really nasty days. It may not have been on the map today. You don't know what all was planned and decided in the aftermath of the 27th strike on our forward formations. But capture of Abhi in bleeding in captivity gave the opposition in India which gets paid by ISI a handle to hit Modi. The strikes planned for night of 27th were postoned and the focus shifted to release of Abhi.
Bakray kee amma, kab tak khair manayegi. Pak will not have an Abhi excuse everytime.
Click to expand...
Sir, are we to believe that Modi quaked in his boots the moment the opposition took to the streets demanding the immediate release of Wing Co Abhinandan? Or did he utilise it to call a halt to hostilities coz he just didn't see any merit in taking it further, having proved a point to Pakistan and scored a political point with Balakote & milked it dry in the election campaigning for whatever it's worth.

I humbly submit to you that all those plans for the so called "Qatl ki Raat " were just that - plans. Modi had no intention of executing them. You could see this as a supreme bluff, pulling a Pakistan on Pakistan for the bluff they've been subjecting us to since 1999.

Why do I say this? I would rate Modi as astute enough to know that he doesn't consider our armed forces as capable enough to score a decisive victory over Pakistan with its present set up.

And what would such a decisive victory consist of in a series of skirmishes? A full fledged attack on Pakistan with Brahmos and by the IN on Karachi would've swung sympathy in favour of Pakistan and we could be assured of retaliation by them short of going nuclear with whatever they had. Which in turn would force India to get even thus setting in to motion a tit for tat battle which would rapidly escalate into a war with no political objectives.

Sir, are you of the opinion that we could've capitalized on it to invade PoK? Would we be successful in our endeavor? Do you think the IA & the IAF in its present capacities are capable of such an act? Let's for a moment forget the nuclear overhang under which such a war would be waged.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fyodor
_Anonymous_ said:
Sir, are we to believe that Modi quaked in his boots the moment the opposition took to the streets demanding the immediate release of Wing Co Abhinandan? Or did he utilise it to call a halt to hostilities coz he just didn't see any merit in taking it further, having proved a point to Pakistan and scored a political point with Balakote & milked it dry in the election campaigning for whatever it's worth.

I humbly submit to you that all those plans for the so called "Qatl ki Raat " were just that - plans. Modi had no intention of executing them. You could see this as a supreme bluff, pulling a Pakistan on Pakistan for the bluff they've been subjecting us to since 1999.

Why do I say this? I would rate Modi as astute enough to know that he doesn't consider our armed forces as capable enough to score a decisive victory over Pakistan with its present set up.

And what would such a decisive victory consist of in a series of skirmishes? A full fledged attack on Pakistan with Brahmos and by the IN on Karachi would've swung sympathy in favour of Pakistan and we could be assured of retaliation by them short of going nuclear with whatever they had. Which in turn would force India to get even thus setting in to motion a tit for tat battle which would rapidly escalate into a war with no political objectives.

Sir, are you of the opinion that we could've capitalized on it to invade PoK? Would we be successful in our endeavor? Do you think the IA & the IAF in its present capacities are capable of such an act? Let's for a moment forget the nuclear overhang under which such a war would be waged.
Click to expand...
I can say with 100% surety that you are wrong here. The revenge for 27th was planned on the same night but for Abhi's capture.
 
_Anonymous_ said:
Perhaps, you ought to elaborate.

Your views too are solicited!
@Falcon
Click to expand...
Indian Armed forces were on full alert after Pulwama attack. The decision to strike Balakot was taken on 21st night and once again an alert was sounded and forces told to be ready for anykind of escalation and counter strikes should Pakistan responds. They did so on 27th Feb. Modi was informed and the fact that they had targeted our military formations along the border needed an response. But by afternoon the videos of Abhi in captivity went viral and the opposition in India got after Modi. If you had heard the TV interviews of Modi, he himself had stated it openly that our plans had to be altered by evening as the opposition thought thay got a stick to beat modi with and undo the advantage of Balakot strikes.
He had also used the phrase,'Katl kee Raat" and clearly stated that on 27th night Pakistan could have been wiped out from the world map.
 
vstol Jockey said:
Indian Armed forces were on full alert after Pulwama attack. The decision to strike Balakot was taken on 21st night and once again an alert was sounded and forces told to be ready for anykind of escalation and counter strikes should Pakistan responds. They did so on 27th Feb. Modi was informed and the fact that they had targeted our military formations along the border needed an response. But by afternoon the videos of Abhi in captivity went viral and the opposition in India got after Modi. If you had heard the TV interviews of Modi, he himself had stated it openly that our plans had to be altered by evening as the opposition thought thay got a stick to beat modi with and undo the advantage of Balakot strikes.
He had also used the phrase,'Katl kee Raat" and clearly stated that on 27th night Pakistan could have been wiped out from the world map.
Click to expand...
If so, then musn't Abhinandan face adverse action even after what he achieved? He disobeyed the ROEs and got captured.
 
vstol Jockey said:
Indian Armed forces were on full alert after Pulwama attack. The decision to strike Balakot was taken on 21st night and once again an alert was sounded and forces told to be ready for anykind of escalation and counter strikes should Pakistan responds. They did so on 27th Feb. Modi was informed and the fact that they had targeted our military formations along the border needed an response. But by afternoon the videos of Abhi in captivity went viral and the opposition in India got after Modi. If you had heard the TV interviews of Modi, he himself had stated it openly that our plans had to be altered by evening as the opposition thought thay got a stick to beat modi with and undo the advantage of Balakot strikes.
He had also used the phrase,'Katl kee Raat" and clearly stated that on 27th night Pakistan could have been wiped out from the world map.
Click to expand...

People here are being Very Unfair to Armed forces in their criticism

We had a war after 20 years

Naturally there will be mistakes and errors
Of Judgement

Pakistan can only indulge in Propoganda War

We can draw a lot of Positives from Feb events and of course learn from our Mistakes and deficiencies

With Pakistan we will Always get many more Chances to Hurt them

And the Un Official Attacks and Incidents post Feb 27. Are a Different Matter altogether
 
thinkingcap81 said:
If so, then musn't Abhinandan face adverse action even after what he achieved? He disobeyed the ROEs and got captured.
Click to expand...

He also got you an F 16 by putting his life on the line

Fighter pilots have to be aggressive

If they become Timid , they will Only Fire BVRs and Run away

WVR combat will get you the Kills
 
We should look at the effectiveness of armed forces in relation to the general public services..

I think IAF did a good job.
Without significant loss.. # Old mig 21.

Though Mi17 loss is a grave mistake..

But loss of 10x aircraft s in peacetime is totally unacceptable for me..

I would want to grill the factors leading to that.. And rectify it.
 
STEPHEN COHEN said:
He also got you an F 16 by putting his life on the line

Fighter pilots have to be aggressive

If they become Timid , they will Only Fire BVRs and Run away

WVR combat will get you the Kills
Click to expand...
That may be, but militaries adhere to strict standards of discipline and deviations are scritinized thoroughly. I feel that Abhinandan's future will be decided by weighing two aspects: what he has achieved, and the consequences of his achievement.
 
India signs USD700 million deal with Russia for 1,000 additional air-to-air missiles

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has signed deals with Russia worth about USD700 million for an additional 1,000 air-to-air missiles (AAMs) to arm its fleets of MiG and Sukhoi combat aircraft.

Military sources in Moscow and New Delhi told Jane’s on 30 July that the order for the AAMs, which was placed in early July, is for about 300 R-27 (AA-10 ‘Alamo’) infrared-guided (IR) or semi-active radar-guided, medium-to-long-range missiles; 300 R-73E (AA-11 ‘Archer’) IR-guided, short-range missiles; and 400 R-77 (AA-12 ‘Adder’) active radar-guided, medium-range missiles.

The sources said the R-27R1/ER1 and R-27T1/ET1 variants, which are fitted with semi-active and passive infrared seekers, would arm the IAF’s Sukhoi Su-30MKI and upgraded MiG-29M fighters. Moreover, they said that the R-77 and R-73 AAMs would also be carried by the IAF’s MiG-21 ‘Bison’ fighters.

Some of the R-73s might also arm the IAF’s fleet of Mirage 2000H fighters, but this has yet to be confirmed.

Military sources in New Delhi said the missiles were being acquired under the Ministry of Defence’s (MoD’s) 10-I (Intense) provision, which mandates that all three military services stockpile ammunition and stores for 10 days of “intense warfare”.

The AAM procurements are being carried out under the recently enhanced financial powers of the three services, which enable them to make ‘emergency’ materiel purchases of up to INR5 billion (USD72.7 million) each time to maintain prescribed war wastage reserves (WWR)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom