Untapped potential in THIRD tier of Governance ( municipalities/ corporation)

Sathya

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
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India
Hi,

I ve noted some areas where revenues are failed to be made, even with ample possibilities. Some revenues as blindly under collected.

1. Billboard like add board in main roads - for double board in a single pole ,min my place we pay 12,000 per month., in bigger cities it goes about 35,000 too.
- imagine the boards in a road & number of roads in commercial zone.

2. Municipality/ corporation tax is grossly under valued for majority of built up by greasing the palms . Current tax collection will be 2-3 times multiplied.


If there any other ways possible for the government to earn, members please add to it.
@Aashish @Hellfire @randomradio @bonobashi[/USER[/SIZE]]
 

BlackOpsIndia

Team StratFront
Dec 1, 2017
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Hi,

I ve noted some areas where revenues are failed to be made, even with ample possibilities. Some revenues as blindly under collected.

1. Billboard like add board in main roads - for double board in a single pole ,min my place we pay 12,000 per month., in bigger cities it goes about 35,000 too.
- imagine the boards in a road & number of roads in commercial zone.

2. Municipality/ corporation tax is grossly under valued for majority of built up by greasing the palms . Current tax collection will be 2-3 times multiplied.


If there any other ways possible for the government to earn, members please add to it.
@Aashish @Hellfire @randomradio @bonobashi[/USER[/SIZE]]
Billboard often comes under municipal corporations, third tier of governance and state govt don't really have much say in it.


They are generally relaxed in finding new opportunities to generate revenue as their expenses are well met with whatever they generate and grants from higher governments also there is issue of accountability. They don't really care much about timelines or the projects, some cosmetic changes and they are elected back again to office.

Instead of blaming them we should blame ourselves for not bothering how our money is spent.
 

Sathya

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Dec 2, 2017
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India
That's too much distraction for drivers.
There is a elderly gentleman called Traffic Ramasamy in TN got a stay order from Court to stay the permission for billboards for the reasons you have mentioned.
So no official permission is given.
Money goes to some people who knows round about ways.

Too many unregulated banners, instead few paid regulated billbaords are much better.
 
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Sathya

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
1,870
947
India
Billboard often comes under municipal corporations, third tier of governance and state govt don't really have much say in it.


They are generally relaxed in finding new opportunities to generate revenue as their expenses are well met with whatever they generate and grants from higher governments also there is issue of accountability. They don't really care much about timelines or the projects, some cosmetic changes and they are elected back again to office.

Instead of blaming them we should blame ourselves for not bothering how our money is spent.
Can state or central government regulate municipal corporation s

(Thanks I ve edited the title)
 
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BlackOpsIndia

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Can state or central government regulate municipal corporation s
Yeah they can, they have apparatus but they can't regulate themselves how will they regulate small time corruption or ineptness.

Ultimate regulator is common man, if you can fight there are enough forums where you can make a mark, though it require effort and frustrating at times.
 

Vicky

Rajaraja Chola
Dec 1, 2017
336
363
Canada
Can state or central government regulate municipal corporation s

(Thanks I ve edited the title)
I dont think so. Responsibility of governance is shared. Even an MP cannot direct an councillor of an area to get some things done. If the municipality is ruled by another party then it gets worse.

Most of the bill boards are never obtained with permission in the first place. Especially political ones. The low level cadres of ADMK-DMK are friends. You could have seen marriage flex boards with party faces on it. Each and everyone of them was supposed to get permission.
And they are indirectly controlling garbage collection, road laying companies within the municipality even though rules tells they shouldnt do it. Under ADMK govt, the real source of money for party and corruption comes from local bodies. As one councillor told me not so long ago, 50% of every contract must go to the party. Some councillors are helpless with their political careers at stake if they dont accept the demands. An 10 lakh contract actually gets spent only 3-4 lakhs for the people. Rest for the contractor and the politician. The local body system is so rotten.
 
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Sathya

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Dec 2, 2017
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India
I dont think so. Responsibility of governance is shared. Even an MP cannot direct an councillor of an area to get some things done. If the municipality is ruled by another party then it gets worse.

Most of the bill boards are never obtained with permission in the first place. Especially political ones. The low level cadres of ADMK-DMK are friends. You could have seen marriage flex boards with party faces on it. Each and everyone of them was supposed to get permission.
And they are indirectly controlling garbage collection, road laying companies within the municipality even though rules tells they shouldnt do it. Under ADMK govt, the real source of money for party and corruption comes from local bodies. As one councillor told me not so long ago, 50% of every contract must go to the party. Some councillors are helpless with their political careers at stake if they dont accept the demands. An 10 lakh contract actually gets spent only 3-4 lakhs for the people. Rest for the contractor and the politician. The local body system is so rotten.

So many points form your post.

Potential for collecting money - potential for collecting money every time a big politician visits .

I agree party money gets collected here. Have heard stories - threatening hospitals to pay to them.

Local body system is highly inefficient but in immediate & first contact with public !

I feel the system needs to revamped . And should start from here .

Good people can be identified here and elected to next level of governance.

Getting more and more ideas as I speak.

Who has the authority to control these Local bodies ? It cannot be they have total independence with everything, they have to be answerable to someone.
 

Sathya

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
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Yeah they can, they have apparatus but they can't regulate themselves how will they regulate small time corruption or ineptness.

Ultimate regulator is common man, if you can fight there are enough forums where you can make a mark, though it require effort and frustrating at times.
I understand it. Most often they are hand in glove with them.

junction of two levels can be made the area to have checks and Documented .
 

Shashank

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Dec 4, 2017
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Ban galore
One of my relative is deputy mayor in my hometown and to win the seat he had to spend a lot of money. I heard about 20 bullets(royal Enfield) were distributed. I am mentioning this to highlight the lvl of money involved for a victory at this lvl.
These bodies are independent where neither state not center has lots of control over them. If we want to reform these bodies we need to reform law to bring them under stronger government control and regulation.
 

BlackOpsIndia

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One of my relative is deputy mayor in my hometown and to win the seat he had to spend a lot of money. I heard about 20 bullets(royal Enfield) were distributed. I am mentioning this to highlight the lvl of money involved for a victory at this lvl.
These bodies are independent where neither state not center has lots of control over them. If we want to reform these bodies we need to reform law to bring them under stronger government control and regulation.
There are laws and regulations already, we just don't have time to read them or apply them and with digitalization you can ask for a report or file a compliant online.

How many of us complaining about laws or govt regulations have actually used any? I bet 90% of politically aware users at this forum would never have filled a RTI. There are checks and balances everywhere but we are the ultimate users and regulators, till the time we don't feel responsible we will keep finding someone to blame.
 

Shashank

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Dec 4, 2017
866
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Ban galore
There are laws and regulations already, we just don't have time to read them or apply them and with digitalization you can ask for a report or file a compliant online.

How many of us complaining about laws or govt regulations have actually used any? I bet 90% of politically aware users at this forum would never have filled a RTI. There are checks and balances everywhere but we are the ultimate users and regulators, till the time we don't feel responsible we will keep finding someone to blame.
I am sorry if I sound like a pessimist to you but I am going to share my personal experience with laws and courts. I am one of victim of a real estate fraudster with support from politicians in Bangalore and guy started companies with name of Dreams GK, Gruha kalyan and TGS. I booked 2 plots with these guys and lost more than 6.5 lakhs I paid as advance. Its been more than 2 years since I am fighting legal case under section 138 to get my money back but no result yet. there are over 50 cheese bounce case against builder but no one is able to get his/her money back. We organized mass protests in front of local police station, commissioners office and press club and all government did was to handover the case to CID and now everything is in clod storage. More than 1 K crore of money down the drain . I know many people who lost their entire retirement fund to buy apartments and plots and I don't know how they are able to survive now. I have spent more than 70 K on top of my money lost to builder and now he is absconding and there is no recovery that's going to happen.
getting into official and legal domain is something not more than 2 % of population can manage or afford as its time and money consuming. Its good to have never say die spirit but middle class at times find themselves helpless.
My current builder had to pay huge bribe of over 30 lakhs to get OC even though deviation in his last project was just .5 %. He had option to go to courts but can he afford to do so? NO because that will ruin his business. Only a guy with nothing to loose or worry can be a anticorruption crusader.
 

BlackOpsIndia

Team StratFront
Dec 1, 2017
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I am sorry if I sound like a pessimist to you but I am going to share my personal experience with laws and courts. I am one of victim of a real estate fraudster with support from politicians in Bangalore and guy started companies with name of Dreams GK, Gruha kalyan and TGS. I booked 2 plots with these guys and lost more than 6.5 lakhs I paid as advance. Its been more than 2 years since I am fighting legal case under section 138 to get my money back but no result yet. there are over 50 cheese bounce case against builder but no one is able to get his/her money back. We organized mass protests in front of local police station, commissioners office and press club and all government did was to handover the case to CID and now everything is in clod storage. More than 1 K crore of money down the drain . I know many people who lost their entire retirement fund to buy apartments and plots and I don't know how they are able to survive now. I have spent more than 70 K on top of my money lost to builder and now he is absconding and there is no recovery that's going to happen.
getting into official and legal domain is something not more than 2 % of population can manage or afford as its time and money consuming. Its good to have never say die spirit but middle class at times find themselves helpless.
My current builder had to pay huge bribe of over 30 lakhs to get OC even though deviation in his last project was just .5 %. He had option to go to courts but can he afford to do so? NO because that will ruin his business. Only a guy with nothing to loose or worry can be a anticorruption crusader.
I was not talking about litigation, thanks to our vacation loving Lords and Honourables most cases only get next date without any progress for years.

I was talking about monitoring authorities who impose penalty or punish for wrong done.
 
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Shashank

Well-Known member
Dec 4, 2017
866
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Ban galore
I was not talking about litigation, thanks to our vacation loving Lords and Honourables most cases only get next date without any progress for years.

I was talking about monitoring authorities who impose penalty or punish for wrong done.
I would say RTI has been diluted to a certain extent and whats the guarantee that the information we are being provided through RTI is accurate .
Moreover majority of RTI activists have some kind of political backing or have political source of information. When RTI came I did see a lot of political activists using it as a tool to settle score or get information which they needed. as far as I have seen RTI activity there are rarely any individual getting into this, its all politically supported people . I wont reply further to this as I might be derailing this thread.

On Topic

If we somehow find ways to get more transparency into functioning of municipal corporations they are best tools to implement government projects in urban areas. Problem I see is lack of coordination if control of municipality is under different hands other than ruling party in state or center. There are many small or independent players ate municipal level.
 

Vicky

Rajaraja Chola
Dec 1, 2017
336
363
Canada
So many points form your post.

Potential for collecting money - potential for collecting money every time a big politician visits .

I agree party money gets collected here. Have heard stories - threatening hospitals to pay to them.

Local body system is highly inefficient but in immediate & first contact with public !

I feel the system needs to revamped . And should start from here .

Good people can be identified here and elected to next level of governance.

Getting more and more ideas as I speak.

Who has the authority to control these Local bodies ? It cannot be they have total independence with everything, they have to be answerable to someone.
First thing is to educate our masses. We think its MP's and MLA's(to a lesser level) duty to get our basic chores done. But its not. Their job is law-making. MP's and MLA's should discuss with people on coming laws at Parliament and assemblies and get their feedbacks. Its the councillors/Chairmans' job to hear to our basic grievances.
I am really impressed with the system in Canada. I know an SL tamil refugee here who didnt get his PR card cos Bangkok police didnt respond to his e-mails, calls and fax for an Character certificate. He actually met his MP, and she called the police station and when there was no answer she signed the NOC and he got his card in 4 weeks.

And Councillors here visit each home and give their contact no everytime they win. In India its pure goondas. Even my friend whose dad is ex-councillor had to pay 35k for every home for an apartment he is building. Panchayat permission for every home is a must. Cos the party has an target for each and every area. And it gets higher during 1 year before Assembly elections.

With this government may fall anytime, corruption is peak high. They want to make the most of it. Many are thinking when this govt falls their careers might be over. So make hay while sun shines.
 
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Sathya

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
1,870
947
India
I would say RTI has been diluted to a certain extent and whats the guarantee that the information we are being provided through RTI is accurate .
Moreover majority of RTI activists have some kind of political backing or have political source of information. When RTI came I did see a lot of political activists using it as a tool to settle score or get information which they needed. as far as I have seen RTI activity there are rarely any individual getting into this, its all politically supported people . I wont reply further to this as I might be derailing this thread.

On Topic

If we somehow find ways to get more transparency into functioning of municipal corporations they are best tools to implement government projects in urban areas. Problem I see is lack of coordination if control of municipality is under different hands other than ruling party in state or center. There are many small or independent players ate municipal level.
Heard from friend ,

There was a doctor also a Facebook social activist , he made lot of complaints cleared his area of garbage and etc and made posts in Facebook about his achievements...

Later during Dengue season there were some rules against water stagnation in buildings.. Corporation fined him 10 lakh .
 
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Sathya

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
1,870
947
India
Local body elections in TN..

Per head is getting about 4000 Rp.

This is for a taluk , not even district head quarter s.
 
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Sathya

Well-Known member
Dec 2, 2017
1,870
947
India
I had a thought ..
mobile network providers should record all the calls and store for at least a year.

Crime detection will improve.
Committing crime would reduce..

At present police can ask for call log details and location only.

@anyone who can better the future
 

screambowl

Senior member
Dec 19, 2017
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switzerland
Go anywhere in India, pay rs 300000 and get a govt land in your name anywhere. This is the reality of mulcipality. You guys are really very honest but in India government does not run with honesty.
 
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