Analysis Tracking USA VS China Trade war
- Thread starter Shashank
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None of the arguments you made is what I'm talking about. I'm referring to his foreign policy, since your post refers to it.
Anyway:
He may be a closet racist, but in terms of policy he's not.
What's the alternative, put the children in jail with their parents?
I'm perfectly fine with splitting families. It's the fault of the parents, not the USG. Illegal immigration should be dealt with even more harshly in fact. People everywhere in every country must realise that illegal immigration is a crime and you will most definitely be punished for it.
Illegal immigration is always bad. In 10 years or so, India will also suffer from massive illegal immigration from other continents and I hope the govt is going to be much more strict in comparison to Trump. Make it so that even those who manage to successfully make it through the border, their life should be living hell. No cellphone, no bank account, no job etc. Make the immigrants wish to go back instead.
There is no proof yet of his hatred in terms of policy. He may be a closet bigot, closest racist etc, but there is no proof of him actually having made policies that are detrimental to Indians simply because we have a different colour.
India has most definitely benefited from the Trump Presidency. And Indians continue to benefit from their visa policy, even if it has sucked since time immemorial.
Based on what metric? The fact that unemployment is the lowest since 1969? The fact that the dollar is stronger than ever?
If the poor get poorer, it's the poor's fault. You can't live in what is easily the greatest country on the planet where you have the most opportunities than anybody else on the planet and then claim you can't get rich because the system is plotting against you.
The poor in America have been living on welfare too long. Welfare spending must be cut drastically. They should be punished by life for making poor choices.
So you are blaming him for being a man? He is talking like most men do. He didn't say it publicly, he said it in a bus among friends.
Otoh, compare with how bad the "Democrat Hollywood" has been in general when it comes to the treatment of women. Although I doubt any US President has come up to the level of Bull Clit-on though.
There's nothing wrong with having an opinion. But you should make sure your opinions are not bereft of facts.
Regardless of your opinion about his domestic policies, Trump's foreign policy is really, really good for Western democracies and very, very bad for the enemies of the West. He has given rich European countries the excuse necessary to drastically increase their defence and security spending and justify it to their constituents. You rarely get leaders like that.
Anyway:
He may be a closet racist, but in terms of policy he's not.
What's the alternative, put the children in jail with their parents?
I'm perfectly fine with splitting families. It's the fault of the parents, not the USG. Illegal immigration should be dealt with even more harshly in fact. People everywhere in every country must realise that illegal immigration is a crime and you will most definitely be punished for it.
Illegal immigration is always bad. In 10 years or so, India will also suffer from massive illegal immigration from other continents and I hope the govt is going to be much more strict in comparison to Trump. Make it so that even those who manage to successfully make it through the border, their life should be living hell. No cellphone, no bank account, no job etc. Make the immigrants wish to go back instead.
There is no proof yet of his hatred in terms of policy. He may be a closet bigot, closest racist etc, but there is no proof of him actually having made policies that are detrimental to Indians simply because we have a different colour.
India has most definitely benefited from the Trump Presidency. And Indians continue to benefit from their visa policy, even if it has sucked since time immemorial.
Based on what metric? The fact that unemployment is the lowest since 1969? The fact that the dollar is stronger than ever?
If the poor get poorer, it's the poor's fault. You can't live in what is easily the greatest country on the planet where you have the most opportunities than anybody else on the planet and then claim you can't get rich because the system is plotting against you.
The poor in America have been living on welfare too long. Welfare spending must be cut drastically. They should be punished by life for making poor choices.
So you are blaming him for being a man? He is talking like most men do. He didn't say it publicly, he said it in a bus among friends.
Otoh, compare with how bad the "Democrat Hollywood" has been in general when it comes to the treatment of women. Although I doubt any US President has come up to the level of Bull Clit-on though.
There's nothing wrong with having an opinion. But you should make sure your opinions are not bereft of facts.
Regardless of your opinion about his domestic policies, Trump's foreign policy is really, really good for Western democracies and very, very bad for the enemies of the West. He has given rich European countries the excuse necessary to drastically increase their defence and security spending and justify it to their constituents. You rarely get leaders like that.
I’d like to point out that modi is openly racist by western standards and he’s overwhelmingly popular.
And why're you so determined that the Donald successfully screws PRC ,if I may know ?
Still doesn't explain how you're comfortable with Trump screwing Canada .
Because I’m loyal to my country of birth, upbringing and cultural values over ethnicity ?
I disagree with trump on Canada, but China is an overwhelming threat to pretty much every value/ ideal I hold dear.
I’m Canadian first. Chinese second. Also love of heritage does not equal love of government.
Openly racist ? How ? Pls do explain ! Unless you're equating Islamophobia with racism .
The CCP and the people of PRC are 2 different entities. Trump harming China will affect the LCD - lowest common denominator not the CCP. I'm surprised at your naivete.
That’s exactly what the west had done. Lumped every possible thing with racism. So yeah, if we call trump racist, just picture if he did something like modi.
I don’t think modi is wrong actually, I’m just presenting from a western perspective.
The whole system needs to be brought down and rebuilt from scratch.
I’d point it like this. A country only deserves loyalty if it is just country. Otherwise you get brain washed zealots that supported Nazi germany. There’s no directly way to pressure the party without hurting innocents.
So be it, if that’s what it takes.
Wake me up when that happens. Also people having orgasm over fall of China are day dreaming. There won't be any collapse of China and when it comes to humanitarian ideals of world China is million times better than US by not interfering and bombing innocents in other countries.
This talk of US somehow flag bearer of ideals of humanity is full of crap. They have killed "millions" of innocent in middle East just in past few years. The recent air strike of Saudi via US weapons on school bus killing 50 kids was sponsored by US and the super power didn't even had courage to condemn it!!!! They are so afraid of Saudi clowns not to mention the recent killing of kids in Afghanistan by Pakistani proxies helped directly by US in name of talks and concession, clowns even dropped the prerequisite to act against Haqqani so as not to anger terrorists.
We don't want such super power, they may kill terrorists in movies but in reality most terriost organization are directly trained and aided by US so spare us this crap of US ideals. They are only second to Pakistan, if Pakistani sell their mother for money US sell others kid.
Those retard Saudis and their group of camel rearers targeted Canada and US didn't utter a word not to antagonize Saudi masters. Heck they even agreed to admit the students taken out of Canada! Not that I love Canada's love for Khalistani terrorists but a group started targeting and his allies were silent.
I can go on and on how making US sole superpower has resulted in millions and millions of innocents death, when USSR was there they hesitated before attacking fearing getting their *censored* kicked, now they kill people for fun. It's important to have some kind of counter to US be it China or coalition of Russia China or more. This wet dream of US of stopping any power that stood against them will never succeed.
Remember today it's China, after 2030 they will target India, these idiots can't stand any power that stand up to them. Careful what you wish for.
How China steals U.S. secrets
How China steals U.S. secrets
Aarthi Swaminathan and Michael B. Kelley
Yahoo FinanceAugust 18, 2018
China wants to steal U.S. secrets and is very good at doing so.
“China, from a counterintelligence perspective, represents the broadest, most pervasive, most threatening challenge we face as a country,” FBI Director Christopher Wray told the Aspen Security Forum in July.
A recent U.S. government report titled “Foreign Economic Espionage in Cyberspace” indicates how multifaceted China is when it comes to stealing American intellectual property and U.S. government secrets.
How China steals U.S. secrets
Aarthi Swaminathan and Michael B. Kelley
Yahoo FinanceAugust 18, 2018
China wants to steal U.S. secrets and is very good at doing so.
“China, from a counterintelligence perspective, represents the broadest, most pervasive, most threatening challenge we face as a country,” FBI Director Christopher Wray told the Aspen Security Forum in July.
A recent U.S. government report titled “Foreign Economic Espionage in Cyberspace” indicates how multifaceted China is when it comes to stealing American intellectual property and U.S. government secrets.
China is the one responsible for cutting down USA and enabling better multipolar world. It is Chinese manufacturing that simply overtook USA by a vast margin and hence made USA less arrogant. No matter what propaganda has been about China, China has been very benevolent to India and in general the world.
If not for chinese manufacturing, we would not be seeing today's wealth and comforts. If goods produced were expensive made in USA ones, then the number of gadgets and electronics we have would have been halved or reduced further.
Chinese manufacturing is very strong and China has lots of USA treasury bonds. There is hardly anything that USA ca do about China. If China ever decides to release USA bonds in the market, dollar value will crash badly
If not for chinese manufacturing, we would not be seeing today's wealth and comforts. If goods produced were expensive made in USA ones, then the number of gadgets and electronics we have would have been halved or reduced further.
Chinese manufacturing is very strong and China has lots of USA treasury bonds. There is hardly anything that USA ca do about China. If China ever decides to release USA bonds in the market, dollar value will crash badly
That's good if they do that. but what has prevented them from doing so? You see even with tariffs, they want the value of the US dollar to remain High because it makes their holdings more valuable in terms of RMB and exports earn more RMB per buck. Crashing the of Dollar isn't good for China. they know it. At the same time it will squeeze China's ability to import raw materials any exporter to China will like the value to be dollars. Here is where the Chinese Neo Colonialism comes into play. Raw material suppliers will be made to pay back loans in Kind and that is where they will be able to tide over high import bills other than that of Fuels.
USA is not the only country on the planet, China has not over taken just them it has over taken everyone else, combined. Chinese cheap manufacturing is a blessing for low income economies, as it has increased the quality of life there, However it has also drained them of wealth and of manufacturing prowess. It is all fine as long as Low-mid value items are made cheaper as other economies can benefit from them the issue is Countries need some level of Mid Value manufacturing to have high value manufacturing or economy. Because a high value product with enough automation coming our way in the next 5-10 years will cost the same to produce in China as in any other nation, but without mid and low manufacturing all Manufacturing will get concentrated in China.
Here a rope balance act has to be taken into consideration by the non Chinese nations to transition to have some level of scalable domestic manufacturing to meet domestic demands and have supply chains in place. That is a concern.
You are not understanding me. China is keeping a part of the export money as foreign exchange reserves instead of being injected into the economy. China has too much foreign exchange and trade surplus and does not want more dollars. Storing money in USA treasury bills is a big waste.
About raw material cost, the greatest advantage China has is that it is the producer of raw materials. The very reason China took over the world is because it produces about 30-50% of all minerals in the world. It is not the cheap labour China is selling but the natural resource at a discount. So, substituting China will require someone else who is willing to sell raw material at discount like China. If you don't understand how discount works, I will give an example of India itself. Coal India sells Gondwana coal at Rs 1000 per ton whereas the same quality coal fetches Rs 3000-2500 a ton if bought from Indonesia. But India discounts its resources for domestic consumption. China likewise, discounts their resources and hence it becomes cheaper to buy from China. There is simply no country that has the required resources and willing to sell for cheap. China is investing in BRI as USA barred China from buying USA real estate with treasury and China sees it as a waste to hold trillions of USA debt meaninglessly. China is dumping dollars for real assets, not neo-colonialism.
If USA dollar crashes, USA will lose badly. China can even pressure Arabs into giving up dollars for petroleum which can make dollars meaningless. China still will have great amount of resources to trade with other countries due to its trade surplus. China has a goods surplus of over 400 billion and services deficit of 250 billion USD. Most of this services are tourism of chinese to western countries and are not important economically. So, even with a dollar crash, China can sustain its economy well. Dollar is having value only because of petrodollar effect, not because of any USA backing.
China can't take over all manufacturing. Other countries are not incompetent. Technology wise other countries are also growing and Chinese cheap tools and machinery only helps in increasing the pace at which other countries like India grows its technology by slowly substituting it with indigenous ones by raising customs tax progressively as seen in electronics sector. USA on the other hand, makes life difficult by monopolising technology and not allowing others to acquire them by sanctions or raising cost of equipments.
I agree with this point. But I have an additional PoV... will come back Later in the post.
Lets take this scenario if China choose to start dumping its stock of U.S. securities. The result would be appreciation of other major currencies (depending on where China would decide to park its reserve assets); upward pressure on U.S. interest rates; and the possibility of financial market disruptions if China dumped its U.S. dollar assets rapidly. However, the U.S. Federal Reserve could limit the rise in U.S. interest rates and would be able to ensure adequate liquidity to prevent market disruptions. But a decision to dump Treasuries would have a large effect on China itself. The country would incur a substantial capital loss on its reserve assets. The Chinese authorities are deeply concerned about such a loss, and are very unlikely to decide to dump U.S. assets. In fact, the discussion initiated by China regarding the need for an alternative official reserve asset is motivated by its concerns about potential losses on its U.S. dollar holdings.
Fully agree. And the way you have articulated it, can't be any better. yet on the part of Neo Colonialism however, it seems like putting counties in debt trap is not an act of benevolence by any length of interpretation. In the process from a Sino Centric view it is increasing its assets but at the same time undermining sovereignty of nations in the long run. It hard not to see the obvious pattern. It is overly aggressive in this manner.
My point of Balancing, while it makes acquisition of Capital goods cheap, China systematically gains advantage in transitioning to a higher manufacturing level while the world plays catch up. China has over capacity and its "discounting of goods" wreaks havoc on domestic supply chains if it not properly regulated by home Governments. USA certainly protects its position in the tech leader board aggressively, and that is to preserve its stature. Don't we also do what China does albeit in Pharma, Herein China also protects its Pharma and IT companies by not letting us compete in their market. China does what it does for its own benefit not out of benevolence, but had it not been a unitary party sate with an autocratic Government I'd take a more 'less critical view'. China is doing in Manufacturing what USA does in Technology, monopolising it, it can out compete any manufacturing sector is any country. It is not that other countries are incompetent, it is just that other countries are not able to discount its product the way china is able to. The point is China's rise can be leveraged by developing nations like us, at the same time this leverage needs to be exercised extremely skillfully and with valid checks and balances.
China does not mind losing half of their 3 trillion dollar reserves as that itself is excessive. So, China would prefer to use the reserves to make maximum gains in political and military fields rather than in further increasing economy. China has enough to last a decade of decline in economy due its vast reserves. I am not saying that China will offload USA treasury without reason but it will do so if political gains are available. So, USA has to remain controlled while dealing with China.
USA has no ability to handle the excess liquidity crisis. Increasing interest rates will not help as the liquidity is excessive due to China selling off USA bonds. It will cause a glut of dollar and by all means cause a severe recession in USA. There will be hyper inflation.
Manufacturing of China can always be contained by customs duty. So, cheap manufacturing of China helps in getting those goods selectively which are not available in the country. It will not spoil manufacturing of other countries. Also, capital goods and high technology goods don't work on cheap natural resources. Capital goods become competitive based on cheap educated labour. So, this sector will remain unaffected except for countries like USA, Europe who overcharge labour by a big margin. That is actually a good thing for India. For example, automobiles of India will not be hit by Chinese manufacturing. If India decides to make high end things like chip, mobiles, computers etc, again, Chinese manufacturing will not hurt India. India can make the goods cheaper than China as labour cost in India is lower. Since natural resource usage is not the key for laptops or semiconductor, China will have no advantage over poorer country like India.
USA is afraid as its overcharging attitude will come to an end and equity will be established in labour cost with China. USA wants its people to have high wages and high standard of living unfairly over others and that is why alarmed over China. India stands to benefit by rationalising cost of high end goods from Chinese manufacturing. USA needs to be cut down in Indian interests. For example, USA overcharges semiconductors like intel chips by charging 200-300 dollars for one single chipset! These chipset are tiny pieces of silicon and does not cost much raw material. Most of the expense comes from fat paycheck of engineers and designers who are paid $200000 per annum in the silicon industry. If the salary is cut down to $25000 per annum by making the chips in India, the cost will come down to less than $50 per chipset.
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