Time to replace the Pistol Auto 9mm A1

[Milspec]

The Indian Army's legacy handgun, the Pistol Auto 9mm 1A, has served the army well for several decades. However, as technology and warfare tactics evolve, it is becoming increasingly clear that the Pistol Auto 9mm 1A is now on the verge of obsolescence. In light of this, the Indian Army should begin exploring options for a replacement handgun that can better meet the changing needs of modern warfare.

Pistol Auto 9mm 1A

One option for the Indian Army to consider is the CZ75 sp01, a Czech-made handgun known for its accuracy and reliability. It features a modular design that allows for easy installation of different accessories and has a high magazine capacity of 18 rounds. CZ75Sp01 is a natural successor to the Hi Power based PA91A, it has a similar low bore design to the Hi Powers, and can slo be carried cocked and locked. The steel frame adds heft to the package and combined with its low bore axis has arguably the best recoil impulse in the 9mm universe.

CZ75 SP01

Another option is the Glock19/17, a widely used handgun known for its durability, reliability, and ease of use. It is a polymer-framed handgun that is lightweight and has a high magazine capacity of 15 rounds. Glock 19 changed the world of firearms since it was introduced, its polymer frame construction, unbeaten reliability, and light weight make it a do-everything handgun. In addition, Glock 19 has incredible aftermarket support with a large number of drop-in chassis which can convert the pistol into a carbine.

Glock 19

Glock 19 Fab defense kit

The Jericho 941 PSL, an Israeli-made handgun, is another potential contender known for its accuracy and reliability. It features high-quality steel construction and has a high magazine capacity of 16 rounds and also has a polymer lower option. Jericho is based on the CZ75 design, and thus bring about all the advantages of the CZ platform. Additional advantage being an Israeli product has better prospects as a commercial package to bolster Indo-Israeli ties.

IWI Jericho PSL9


The Sig Sauer P320, a newer model, is also a viable option for the Indian Army. It's known for its accuracy and reliability, and features a modular design that allows for easy installation of different accessories, and high magazine capacity of 17 rounds.Sig P320 has, about 24 variants out theres and pretty much offers every feature under the sun within that family.

Sig P320

It's important to carefully evaluate the technical specifications, performance, durability, and cost-effectiveness of these handguns before making a decision on which one to adopt as the replacement for the Pistol Auto 9mm 1A. There is also tremendous potential for Indian players to offer some of these systems as local manufacturing partners for the product. In addition to the Indian Army, paramilitary forces and law enforcement sales can further sweeten the business case for the replacement proposition as well as provide system commonality for training and deployment ease.

@randomradio @_Anonymous_ @Parthu @Ashwin @nair @suryakiran @Hellfire

 

[D68]

It should be whatever is cheapest and can be licence built. Also, can you please elaborate more on how the PA91A is obsolete? Apart from iron sights, I don't see much else. I mean how important are electronic sights on a sidearm really? I imagine the ballistics are pretty similar among all these pistols as well. We should be focussing on arming our INSAS weilding troopers with the AK-103 asap. Again, I don't see IA prioritising electronic sights even on these rifles. Not with our budget constraints. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Even PLA is happy enough with iron sights. ACOGs and optical sights are for the wealthier nations.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Not that keyed into small arms but this is a good write up on potential replacements & precisely why I find it disturbing .

Allow me to explain. It's bad enough we've had to replace the indigenous INSAS series with imports due to various factors but this notion of us not being good enough to design a small personal firearm is frankly galling to say the least.

Surely you don't believe we don't have it in us the ability to design a decent fire arm?

 

[D68]

Not that keyed into small arms but this is a good write up on potential replacements & precisely why I find it disturbing .

Allow me to explain. It's bad enough we've had to replace the indigenous INSAS series with imports due to various factors but this notion of us not being good enough to design a small personal firearm is frankly galling to say the least.

Surely you don't believe we don't have it in us the ability to design a decent fire arm?

I mean there are private small arms designers coming out with some cool stuff. Of course, their relaibility is a wild card. There will have to be a leap of faith of sorts from IA and they are imo too risk averse to support a local third party for such a vital piece of gear. The AK-103 licence-built is a good compromise. INSAS is frankly an embarrassment in this day and age. All they had to do was copy the AK-47 25-30 years ago when INSAS was being designed. No shame in it.

Anyway, our regular infantry need basic armour, better headgear and ballistic plating more than optical sights and even comms/networking as envisioned in the F-INSAS programme.

 

[Ginvincible]

I think it's not a super big priority when there are bigger ticket items like jackets, helmets, radios, etc. that are needed. Eventually tie in with some company to produce some modular sidearm but focus on what frontline troops currently lack. Defense acquisition is already hard enough without adding more to the plate that isn't immediately necessary.

 

[Milspec]

It should be whatever is cheapest and can be licence built. Also, can you please elaborate more on how the PA91A is obsolete? Apart from iron sights, I don't see much else. I mean how important are electronic sights on a sidearm really? I imagine the ballistics are pretty similar among all these pistols as well. We should be focussing on arming our INSAS weilding troopers with the AK-103 asap. Again, I don't see IA prioritising electronic sights even on these rifles. Not with our budget constraints. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Even PLA is happy enough with iron sights. ACOGs and optical sights are for the wealthier nations.

PA91A is nearing obsolescence, it was based on the Inglis Hi Power version. Few drawbacks: No accessory Rails for Lights on the pistol, Sights are nonadjustable, and grips too are nonadjustable on the system. The gun is fed through a 13rd flush fit mag, and the trigger is HORRENDOUS.

Given the cost, just a reminder Hi Powers are not cheap, if anything one of the most expensive 9mm's in the market, which when in production sold close to $1000 a pop

Steel frame guns are inherently more expensive to build compared to polymer-framed gun. In this example, I think I paid $530 for my Glock19 and $480 for my IWI Jericho PSL9.

In close combat, Handguns are extremely effective, they are more maneuverable, more controllable, and against unarmored targets extremely lethal. They come with a lower probability of over-penetration, reducing collateral damage, and also serve as the "sidearm" when your primary weapon jams or runs out of ammo. The concealability of Pistol makes it great for those discreet occasions, All of the options I have suggested can be suppressed, customized to different grip sizes, and have high-capacity magazine options, and can take a tactical light and some like the Sig P320 have the necessary cuts for a red dot.


Red dots are not a necessity, but it surely makes target acquisition faster, giving your soldier the tactical edge he needs against the adversary.

Last but not least the trigger. A CZ75 SP01 with a SA/DA trigger when running SA will break around 2.5 to 3 lb, which makes it an extremely fast gun to shoot, lighter and consistent trigger pul leads to more accuracy.

These are few of the advantages to consider when evaluating the need for replacing the current hand gun.

Note: Prices I have mentioned are US civilian Market prices, for military contracts assume half of those values.

 

[Milspec]

Not that keyed into small arms but this is a good write up on potential replacements & precisely why I find it disturbing .

Allow me to explain. It's bad enough we've had to replace the indigenous INSAS series with imports due to various factors but this notion of us not being good enough to design a small personal firearm is frankly galling to say the least.

Surely you don't believe we don't have it in us the ability to design a decent fire arm?

Well, take it from me, Handguns are a tough cookie to crack. Take the example of the Turkish firearms, it took them a good decade to crack the reliability, and accuracy benchmarks with the TP9 series (Walther-inspired) to make a successful product. And this was on the back of thousands of CZ75, Glock17/19, 1911, and Berreta 92FS clones that they produced for decades. So for a private Co to come up and knock a handgun out of the park is quite unlikely. In short , surely we have the ability to design and produce a handgun, but a decent one- I doubt. Engineering A Wordclass modular system that can compete with the best out there - I wont bet my money on that.

 

[Parthu]

As mind-boggling as it is that the IA's service issue sidearm is a pre-WW2 design, it appeared for the longest time that we had much bigger fish to fry i.e. service rifle. But with that situation now more or less sorted (716 orders & AK203 deal), its time to take a good look at replacement of the handgun platform.

With state-owned factories snatching the rifle contracts, I can't help but see this as an opportunity to provide a much-needed booster to the domestic private-sector arms industry.

To that effect, I'd like to propose: the IWI Masada

https://twitter.com/x/status/1598333725406035969

Already being license produced in India as the PLR9 by PLR Systems, and also got some orders from Navy's MARCOS unit.

Thoughts, @Milspec ?

 

[Milspec]

As mind-boggling as it is that the IA's service issue sidearm is a pre-WW2 design, it appeared for the longest time that we had much bigger fish to fry i.e. service rifle. But with that situation now more or less sorted (716 orders & AK203 deal), its time to take a good look at replacement of the handgun platform.

With state-owned factories snatching the rifle contracts, I can't help but see this as an opportunity to provide a much-needed booster to the domestic private-sector arms industry.

To that effect, I'd like to propose: the IWI Masada

https://twitter.com/x/status/1598333725406035969

Already being license produced in India as the PLR9 by PLR Systems, and also got some orders from Navy's MARCOS unit.

Thoughts, @Milspec ?

Good Striker fired option, I almost bought one the other day. It is a wannabe Glock 19, but again the same business case as the IWI Jericho, Indo Israel relations, local manufacturing, business savvy IWI/IMI conglomerate.

If Geopolitics wasn't an issue, I would have proposed the Turkish Canik TP9SFX, a $500 Striker-fired handgun that shoots almost as well as my CZ75 Shadow 2 which costs 3 times as much.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

If and when IA does show intention for something like this, I think now the domestic industry is in a place to offer a solution too.

 

[Jaymax]

Can we make a pistol. Hell yes.

can ofb mass produce one reliably?

can we leave private players alone if their project takes off? Tavor was a Punj Lloyd project. Any guesses who owns it now ?

 

[randomradio]

The Indian Army's legacy handgun, the Pistol Auto 9mm 1A, has served the army well for several decades. However, as technology and warfare tactics evolve, it is becoming increasingly clear that the Pistol Auto 9mm 1A is now on the verge of obsolescence. In light of this, the Indian Army should begin exploring options for a replacement handgun that can better meet the changing needs of modern warfare.

View attachment 26010
Pistol Auto 9mm 1A

One option for the Indian Army to consider is the CZ75 sp01, a Czech-made handgun known for its accuracy and reliability. It features a modular design that allows for easy installation of different accessories and has a high magazine capacity of 18 rounds. CZ75Sp01 is a natural successor to the Hi Power based PA91A, it has a similar low bore design to the Hi Powers, and can slo be carried cocked and locked. The steel frame adds heft to the package and combined with its low bore axis has arguably the best recoil impulse in the 9mm universe.

View attachment 26011
CZ75 SP01

Another option is the Glock19/17, a widely used handgun known for its durability, reliability, and ease of use. It is a polymer-framed handgun that is lightweight and has a high magazine capacity of 15 rounds. Glock 19 changed the world of firearms since it was introduced, its polymer frame construction, unbeaten reliability, and light weight make it a do-everything handgun. In addition, Glock 19 has incredible aftermarket support with a large number of drop-in chassis which can convert the pistol into a carbine.


View attachment 26012
Glock 19

View attachment 26013
Glock 19 Fab defense kit

The Jericho 941 PSL, an Israeli-made handgun, is another potential contender known for its accuracy and reliability. It features high-quality steel construction and has a high magazine capacity of 16 rounds and also has a polymer lower option. Jericho is based on the CZ75 design, and thus bring about all the advantages of the CZ platform. Additional advantage being an Israeli product has better prospects as a commercial package to bolster Indo-Israeli ties.

View attachment 26014
IWI Jericho PSL9


The Sig Sauer P320, a newer model, is also a viable option for the Indian Army. It's known for its accuracy and reliability, and features a modular design that allows for easy installation of different accessories, and high magazine capacity of 17 rounds.Sig P320 has, about 24 variants out theres and pretty much offers every feature under the sun within that family.

View attachment 26015
Sig P320

It's important to carefully evaluate the technical specifications, performance, durability, and cost-effectiveness of these handguns before making a decision on which one to adopt as the replacement for the Pistol Auto 9mm 1A. There is also tremendous potential for Indian players to offer some of these systems as local manufacturing partners for the product. In addition to the Indian Army, paramilitary forces and law enforcement sales can further sweeten the business case for the replacement proposition as well as provide system commonality for training and deployment ease.

@randomradio @_Anonymous_ @Parthu @Ashwin @nair @suryakiran @Hellfire

DRDO's new machine pistol.

It was jointly designed and developed by the IA and DRDO.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Here you go @Milspec

No wonder your post triggered a deja vu in me . I just couldn't recall the details.Thanks to manchild for jogging my memory .

 

[Hellfire]

It should be whatever is cheapest and can be licence built. Also, can you please elaborate more on how the PA91A is obsolete? Apart from iron sights, I don't see much else. I mean how important are electronic sights on a sidearm really? I imagine the ballistics are pretty similar among all these pistols as well. We should be focussing on arming our INSAS weilding troopers with the AK-103 asap. Again, I don't see IA prioritising electronic sights even on these rifles. Not with our budget constraints. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Even PLA is happy enough with iron sights. ACOGs and optical sights are for the wealthier nations.

Somehow, I found it to be too bulky ...kind of a personal preference though for me!