Third battle of panipat---Ashdoc's account

@vstol Jockey

The First Major Power to Enter into a SUBSIDIARY ALLIANCE with British was RAJPUTS

They did so because they hated the Growing
Maratha Empire

The Worst aspect of Indian infighting is the Maratha - Rajput rivalries after 1707 ie
After Aurangzeb' s death

Since Rajputs had been a Major part of the Mughal Maratha wars from 1650 till 1707
Marathas SPECIFICALLY marked out Rajputs for Revenge and imposed heavy Taxes on them

So Rajputs entered to into a Subsidiary alliance with the British ONLY to preserve their Rajputana Kingdoms
I have never denied this and I also stated longback that this so called Hafta culture has its roots in Marathas imposing over bearing 7% tax other than 25% Lagaan, as protection money. Rajputs never refused to support Marathas in the Third Battle of Panipat. They asked this 7% additional tax to be stopped and Marathas refused to do it.
 
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@vstol Jockey

The First Major Power to Enter into a SUBSIDIARY ALLIANCE with British was RAJPUTS

They did so because they hated the Growing
Maratha Empire

The Worst aspect of Indian infighting is the Maratha - Rajput rivalries after 1707 ie
After Aurangzeb' s death

Since Rajputs had been a Major part of the Mughal Maratha wars from 1650 till 1707
Marathas SPECIFICALLY marked out Rajputs for Revenge and imposed heavy Taxes on them

So Rajputs entered to into a Subsidiary alliance with the British ONLY to preserve their Rajputana Kingdoms

Rajputs did not worry about the fragmenting Mughal empire when they joined the subsidiary alliance.

They were weakened by infighting and constant raids by the Marathas who wanted a 25% tax on revenue (Chauth) and a cess on top of it (sardeshmukhi).

The only way they could have fended off the Marathas was by projecting a unified force - something that never materialized. Events like the Battle of Malpura where Scindia defeated Jaipur and the Siege of Mehrangarh prompted Jaipur and Jodhpur to seek British protection.
 
I knew that such an attempt will be made based on Leftist thinking. Bengal was under Muslim rule and the areas attacked by Marathas were also muslim majority. But just like many others, you found fault with Marathas here.
I tell you what Marathas did wrong? They won territories and instead of ruling them and reconverting muslims back to hinduism they left them with a demand of taxes. That was their biggest undoing. Every attacker who came to India, first converted Hindus to Islam and then used them as the firstline of attackers to witherout Rajputs. The people who died in the initial assault were always the recently converted hindus and they kept their most accomplished troops for final assault when the defenders got tired. Please read the history and the accounts written by the invadors themselves from Ghaznavi to Ghouri to Khilji to Taimur to Baber and you will know the truth in my statement.
 
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Aurangzeb had sent Mirza Raja Jai Singh a Rajput to defeat Chatrapati Shivaji , hence it was but obvious that Marathas were against those who sided with the enemy Mughals. Prominent Mughal generals were Rajputs
 
Aurangzeb had sent Mirza Raja Jai Singh a Rajput to defeat Chatrapati Shivaji , hence it was but obvious that Marathas were against those who sided with the enemy Mughals. Prominent Mughal generals were Rajputs
Even the battle of Singhadh, in pune in which Tanaji Malasure lost life was defended by a Rajput warrior and they both died in the dual. Singhadh Fort makes the backdrop of NDA, My Alma Mater.
 
I knew that such an attempt will be made based on Leftist thinking. Bengal was under Muslim rule and the areas attacked by Marathas were also muslim majority. But just like many others, you found fault with Marathas here.
I tell you what Marathas did wrong? They won territories and instead of ruling them and reconverting muslims back to hinduism they left them with a demand of taxes. That was their biggest undoing. Every attacker who came to India, first converted Hindus to Islam and then used them as the firstline of attackers to witherout Rajputs. The people who died in the initial assault were always the recently converted hindus and they kept their most accomplished troops for final assault when the defenders got tired. Please read the history and the accounts written by the invadors themselves from Ghaznavi to Ghouri to Khilji to Taimur to Baber and you will know the truth in my statement.
This happened probably theres no importance of conversion in Hinduism like Islam or Christianity.
Hinduism doesn't teach us to kill non Hindus as we follow the principle of Vasudaiva Kutumbakum. Sarva Dharma Sam Bhav.
Remember Chatrapati Shivaji had many prominent Muslims in his army as well.
There's a consistent effort atleast in Maharashtra to paint Marathas as some barbarians
 
I knew that such an attempt will be made based on Leftist thinking. Bengal was under Muslim rule and the areas attacked by Marathas were also muslim majority. But just like many others, you found fault with Marathas here.
I tell you what Marathas did wrong? They won territories and instead of ruling them and reconverting muslims back to hinduism they left them with a demand of taxes. That was their biggest undoing. Every attacker who came to India, first converted Hindus to Islam and then used them as the firstline of attackers to witherout Rajputs. The people who died in the initial assault were always the recently converted hindus and they kept their most accomplished troops for final assault when the defenders got tired. Please read the history and the accounts written by the invadors themselves from Ghaznavi to Ghouri to Khilji to Taimur to Baber and you will know the truth in my statement.
The author of the article is a known Hinduphobe. While the Marathas weren't any saints but marauders , ever since the Tipu Sultan & other such controversies began along with elevating the Marathas / Sikhs as saviours of Hindus, there has been a sustained attempt to denigrate the latter particularly the Marathas as if to establish some equivalence.

I agree with the rest of your viewpoint. They lacked political sagacity and couldn't rise beyond being plunderers. They never indulged in religious persecution, destruction of mosques, rapine, etc on the scale that any Turco - Afghan - Mughal or any other Muslim ruler in India did.
 
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This happened probably theres no importance of conversion in Hinduism like Islam or Christianity.
Hinduism doesn't teach us to kill non Hindus as we follow the principle of Vasudaiva Kutumbakum. Sarva Dharma Sam Bhav.
Remember Chatrapati Shivaji had many prominent Muslims in his army as well.
There's a consistent effort atleast in Maharashtra to paint Marathas as some barbarians
The author of the article is a known Hinduphobe. While the Marathas weren't any saints but marauders , ever since the Tipu Sultan & other such controversies began along with elevating the Marathas / Sikhs as saviours of Hindus, there has been a sustained attempt to denigrate the latter particularly the Marathas as if to establish some equivalence.

I agree with the rest of your viewpoint. They lacked political sagacity and couldn't rise beyond being plunderers. They never indulged in religious persecution, destruction of mosques, rapine, etc on the scale that any Turco - Afghan - Mughal or any other Muslim ruler in India did.

Marathas did only one thing wrong. They did not fortify any of their frontiers from enemies. They left Nizam and other muslims within peninsular India to create problems for them. They shud have atleast taken over those areas under their own control. But they did not and that caused them Panipat. They had large force dealing with these idiots in South which prevented them to move their finest guys forward to Panipat and we also know the stupidity of Bhau. I can say that Panipat is a watershed moment in Indian and Hindu History. Our survival depends only and only on offensive actions and not defensive actions. The theory of offensive defense as stated by Doval is what we need.
 
True Indology (@TIinExile) Tweeted:
The new fake narrative is that Marathas "attacked" Tirupati temple.

When they were in fact liberating Tirupati from British had occupied the territory and were usurping revenue of Tirupati temple.

When Marathas entered the temple,they were welcomed with flowers by devotees True Indology on Twitter ( )


Yogen Bhawsar (@yogen198) Tweeted:
@ShrikZinga @TIinExile This is all lie ... You have to read whole article written by Shri @MulaMutha ji.. The problem is present gov hsnt changed our history yet...
I don't know @PrakashJavdekar ji what are you waiting for?? Change the draconian McCauley edu system...

What Exactly Happened At Sringeri Math In April 1791? ( )


The author of the embedded article in the 2nd tweet is Uday Kulkarni who's also authored what many consider one of the finest accounts of the 3rd Battle of Panipat titled Solstice At Panipat. For those who're interested, it's available on Amazon.


In continuation of my posts #24 & #29 . This is the level of distortion we've been brought up on. I've quoted selected posts on this thread.You may want to read the entire thread.This may interest you @vstol Jockey
 
Has anyone seen this movie yet? What I have heard is that it is a hit job on Jats and rest Hindu rulers while the Marathas have been glorified. The failures and absolute stupidity of Sadashiv Rao Bhau have been hidden and the main reason for defeat-Betrayal by Malhar Rao Holkar has been shown in the end and that too in such a manner that it goes nearly unnoticed.
The movie shows that Jat Ruler Maharaja Surajmal was asking for some price for his support while the truth is that he wanted to be opposite Najib Khan to finish him off and Holkar had a secret deal with Najib Khan. Holkar deserted the Yamuna flank when Marathas started wheeling from their right flank which paved the way for Abdali's forces to race behind Maratha lines and directly threaten the womenfolk and unarmed civilians which were part of the entourage.
@ashdoc
 
Has anyone seen this movie yet? What I have heard is that it is a hit job on Jats and rest Hindu rulers while the Marathas have been glorified. The failures and absolute stupidity of Sadashiv Rao Bhau have been hidden and the main reason for defeat-Betrayal by Malhar Rao Holkar has been shown in the end and that too in such a manner that it goes nearly unnoticed.
The movie shows that Jat Ruler Maharaja Surajmal was asking for some price for his support while the truth is that he wanted to be opposite Najib Khan to finish him off and Holkar had a secret deal with Najib Khan. Holkar deserted the Yamuna flank when Marathas started wheeling from their right flank which paved the way for Abdali's forces to race behind Maratha lines and directly threaten the womenfolk and unarmed civilians which were part of the entourage.
@ashdoc

It cannot be said to be a hit job on jats . Raja Suraj mal is shown quitting the alliance because bhau does not agree to give him agra for which he has been promised earlier .

Yes , another hindu ally is shown betraying bhau . Bhau has been glorified unnecessarily and his huge mistake of taking camp followers and women to the battlefield has not been shown.

Nothing wrong in glorifying marathas in general however. The whole movie is on marathas so what else do you expect ?

In my opinion Suraj mal left the alliance because he was asking bhau to keep women and camp followers in his territory so that they would not become an impediment to the expedition---which was the correct advice of course. But bhau rebuffed him by saying that he was not going to listen to the advice of a mere zamindar. Suraj mal who was a raja not just zamindar felt slighted and left the alliance.
 
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It cannot be said to be a hit job on jats . Raja Suraj mal is shown quitting the alliance because bhau does not agree to give him agra for which he has been promised earlier .

Yes , another hindu ally is shown betraying bhau . Bhau has been glorified unnecessarily and his huge mistake of taking camp followers and women to the battlefield has not been shown.

Nothing wrong in glorifying marathas in general however. The whole movie is on marathas so what else do you expect ?


The secret is , Panipat 3 was British strategic response against united India. Some Hindus and all Muslims got played by Britishers, Brahmins were clever they wanted united India to fight the invasion this was the aim of Maratha Empire as well. Britishers secretly told Shah Wali Ullah that Hindus are rising so there is a danger to Muslim sultanat in Delhi and North. So they advised walli ullah to send secret letter to Ahmed Abdali inviting him to invade India.

First all these baniya and rajputs along with Brahmins fought with Abdali

Later after the Hindu loss, and half injured Muslims the Britishers invaded India with force in Battle of Plassey there after India went into the hands of Britishers. There was no way to stop this it was imminent and with that plan India was destined to go into Hands of Britishers. They only divided and ruled by diverting the attention from east to Abdali in the west.

What I learnt from Panipat 3 is maverick british plan to conquer India using it's inter kingdom rivalry and religion.

sabko ch.... banya ;)
 
The secret is , Panipat 3 was British strategic response against united India. Some Hindus and all Muslims got played by Britishers, Brahmins were clever they wanted united India to fight the invasion this was the aim of Maratha Empire as well. Britishers secretly told Shah Wali Ullah that Hindus are rising so there is a danger to Muslim sultanat in Delhi and North. So they advised walli ullah to send secret letter to Ahmed Abdali inviting him to invade India.

First all these baniya and rajputs along with Brahmins fought with Abdali

Later after the Hindu loss, and half injured Muslims the Britishers invaded India with force in Battle of Plassey there after India went into the hands of Britishers. There was no way to stop this it was imminent and with that plan India was destined to go into Hands of Britishers. They only divided and ruled by diverting the attention from east to Abdali in the west.

What I learnt from Panipat 3 is maverick british plan to conquer India using it's inter kingdom rivalry and religion.

sabko ch.... banya ;)
Discussion on Indian history always happens like this. Those bygone things never seem to end, did they learn any thing from it ....nope, will they repeat it ....yes, will the discussion stop .... never.

 
In my opinion Suraj mal left the alliance because he was asking bhau to keep women and camp followers in his territory so that they would not become an impediment to the expedition---which was the correct advice of course. But bhau rebuffed him by saying that he was not going to listen to the advice of a mere zamindar. Suraj mal who was a raja not just zamindar felt slighted and left the alliance.
Maharaja Suraj Mal did not return from the Maratha camp, Bhau was an idiot who got fooled by Holkar and ordered the Holkar troops to attack Jaats at night to finish them off. I have covered that in detail as my forefathers were part of Jat forces and in the inner ring of Maharaja Surajmal. Holkar's only son died in a standoff with jats in 1753. He was even after that asked to sign a peace treaty with Jats by Peshwa Nana Saheb. He harboured a grude against Peshwas for this reason and it was only his betrayal which was the reason for loss in third battle of Panipat. Marathas had nearly won the battle by 3pm and lost it by 5pm.
Maharaja Surajmal did not ask for Agra, his advice was not heeded by Bhau to confine Abdali to eastern bank of Yamuna and attack and ransack Lahore and disrupt his lines of communication and supplies. he was belittled and yet he decided to stay with Marathas. His only demand was to be put against Najib Khan and that is where Holkar fooled Bhau. plus there was a running feud between Scindias and Holkars for control of Malwa. Scindias favoured Jats while Holkar was against them.
Maharaja Suraj mal could have forgiven Marathas for everything but their decision to attack him within their camp was the turning point. he became so badly humiliated that he decided to sign a treaty with Abdali to remain neutral in the war and that gave the chance to Abdali to cross the river Yamuna just north of Delhi and get behind Marathas. Had Holkars not tried to attack Maharaja Surajmal, he may not have remained neutral and could have easily prevented Abdali from arriving behind the Marathas in the Battle. or even sandwich him between Marathas and his own forces.