Maximus

Well-Known member
Jan 22, 2019
94
282
India
Personally, I wouldn't place too much credence on the equipment decisions of any Middle-Eastern entity with the exception of Israel (ofcourse) and to an extent Jordan.

Pretty much every deal is political, and I very much doubt the expertise & leadership qualities of the ones in command. Even those of whom are Pakistanis (who are relatively far more competent) are unlikely to weigh in much with procurement decisions of Arabs, as long as they get their cut.

I'd be really glad if the PLR Systems JV (now Punj Lloyd stake owned by Adani) actually gets a sizable bulk order from a MoD client for a change. So far their sales have been mostly X95s to MHA users (central & state).


I agree with pretty much everything,most of the weapons purchase all over the world have political,monetary and lobbying influence involved.Rest, due to the secrecy clause not much details come out in the open.Still,it would be interesting to know the reason behind Saudi Arabia opting for ak 103 ,especially when it come to the special forces.It is a fact that in Pakistani trials AK 103 did perform very well,did it influence the Saudi decision or not ,we can't say.

It is good to be informed about various developments ,reports and experiences regarding small arms in forces around the world,for example the opinion of Ukrainian forces was not much favorable towards tavor,whereas there were negative reports regarding the stability of the galil ace top cover from Vietnam.


I think ak 103/ak 203 is one of the best rifles around when it comes to 7.62x39mm,while fielding a rifle in large numbers ak 203 makes a lot of sense due to ease of manufacturing,relatively cheaper price,simplicity to use and maintain ,reliability and good enough accuracy ,it is only let down by the vulnerability of its top cover which affects the stability of the optics mounted on it.The performance of the AK 103 in this video is pretty impressive with 1400 rounds fired and the rifle still going strong,apart from the melting of the polymer hand guard ,there was no damage to the rifle.This is even more impressive when you consider the pencil thin barrel of ak 103 and the use of 7.62x39mm round which is known to generate more heat as it exist barrel.


The only sizable order I want the IWI to have is of Negev NG 7 and Jericho maybe carmel,ARAD could be considered depending on their performance ,but I want our forces to stay away from galil ace and Tavor ,nothing particularly bad in these two platform but ace is know to have issue with its top cover stability and tavor family is overpriced for what its worth.I am not too happy to see the growing number of x95 among CAPF and police forces,better rifles could be bought with similar amount of money,maybe caracal 816 or sig 516,mcx virtus.

When it comes to NG 7 ,I would be happy if it becomes the standard issue LMG of our forces.Although I wished that Sig would field the SLMAG for this tender,unfortunately they stayed away from this,another one of my favorite was Russian PKP,unfortunately it is not chambered for 7.62x51mm . NG 7 is also a very good choice,especially because of its light weight and manageable recoil.These two point are important considering average built of our jawans ,who will be able to easily lug around as well as fire from shoulder,while on move from NG 7,if required.NG 7 is one of the best lightweight LMG around.Nevertheless,I would still want PKP or SIG SLMAG .338 as a section level GPMG .


SSS Defence is going to announce 3 new small arms at the Defence Expo 2020:
1.) New Sniper Rifle for Law enforcement and Military.
2.) 7.62x39 Assault Rifle
3.) PDW Carbine

I from bottom of my heart wish for SSS defence to succeed in small arms not only in India but globally,as a passionate enthusiast and a well wisher my two paise worth of words to them will be :

1. Since they are also in ammunition manufacturing ,built their own version of 6.5 grendel and a rifle for it and try to convince army top brass,MOD and PM office how it makes more sense over the 7.62x39mm,and thus deserve to be the new mass fielded round for Indian forces ,be it army,CAPF or police.I said a version of 6.5 grendel, because it will be more economical ,quicker and easier to do than product development of a completely new round from scratch.

2. Let's assume MOD do want to go ahead with 7.62x39mm ,than they should convince and prove to the MOD,PM himself or AJit doval that their 7.62X39MM rifle can stand upto ak 203 or is a standard above it.It will not be easy, as ak 103/203 is a accomplished product, when it comes to rifles chambered in 7.62x39mm,to prove your rifle worth in front of it will be a tough task,but not something which cannot be done.With PM having already committed to the AK 203 in public,and the hype and PR created around this deal ,it will not be easy to cancel it.But they can be convinced as nothing will be a better example of "Make in India" with our forces adopting a designed and produced rifle in India.It can act as a flagship to the Make in India scheme,and will bring quite a positive PR for the Government.

3.What makes SSS defence different from OFB producing ak 203 or other private manufacturer doing a JV is that unlike others SSS defence hold the IPR for their products.If it receive the stimulus in form of a sizable order ,it could transform into a hub of all kind of small arms solutions .They will invest more in R&D for not only their current lineup but also for new products,and frankly right now SSS defence in the only private sector that has shown its intent on R&D ,whereas others are solely relying on manufacturing right now.So success of SSS defence is imperative for a new dawn in small arm R&D in India.I would relate to what SSS defence is doing in small arms both in work and ambition to what Baba Kalayani is doing in the field of artillery ,both of these effort are crucial for India,and if government has any sense it would hand hold and nurture them right now,and see them flourishing into global giants in their respective fields.

4. If SSS defence has to succeed it has to be aggressive in its approach ,to not only developing new products but also marketing and lobbying it to the the power center of Indian government.If they have to succeed they have to be hungry for it,they should already form a team which beside salesman/women should also consist of ex spec op operators ,who could pitch their products to clients all around the world through live tactical demonstration. They need to create a hype around their products,this is something IWI is very well versed in,and could be looked upto .Beside Indian army ,there are CAPF,state police,Bhutan,Bangladesh,Srilanka,African countries,Philippines etc which will be looking towards new generation of small arms in future.

5. I feel they should have two different lines of thoughts while developing small arms ,one should emphasize on offering best value in reasonable price and quality,well suited for mass manufacturing ,ideal for equipping a large man power in optimum price.Their other line of approach should entirely based on quality,innovation and cutting edge,irrespective of the cost.These should be developed as niche products,targeting a small but crucial customer base of special forces around the world,these line of products would act as a HALO for company,and would help in establishing its name in highly competitive global market.So,have two line of products ,one for mass ,other for class!

6.IMHO one product they should start working on ASAP is a family of pistols,this is one low hanging fruit which will be up for grabs soon be it army,police,or private ownership in India .If they are able to develop a decent and up to date pistols ,they will have quite a lot going for them by the time next tender is issued.This is one section which has immense sale potential worldwide,and something they should start working on right away,so when the times comes(tender),they have a polished product,ready to offer.

7.IMO firearms beside their functionality is also about the emotions they generate,and how one relate to it depending on its name and looks.SSS defence is a very boring and uninspiring name ,same goes for their logo/trademark,nothing of it is relatable or inspiring to one conscious or sub conscious mind nor does it stimulate one senses.I would like to suggest a brand name and logo,Which I have also mentioned previously in this thread :

Name : ARKA / Origin : Sanskrit / Meaning : Ray of light,lightning,Sun

Brand Logo :
ARKA 1.jpg






Of course they are free to choose whatever they like,but I feel a sun with a lighting bolt would look more cool engraved on a firearm than a three dash of SSS defence.I believe when you do something ,then better do it in style.

8 Rest ,I have my opinion regarding their 7.62x39mm rifle design,which I will pen down in my next post ,as and when I get time.
 

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  • ARKA 1.jpg
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Parthu

Gessler
Team StratFront
Dec 1, 2017
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When it comes to NG 7 ,I would be happy if it becomes the standard issue LMG of our forces.Although I wished that Sig would field the SLMAG for this tender,unfortunately they stayed away from this,another one of my favorite was Russian PKP,unfortunately it is not chambered for 7.62x51mm . NG 7 is also a very good choice,especially because of its light weight and manageable recoil.These two point are important considering average built of our jawans ,who will be able to easily lug around as well as fire from shoulder,while on move from NG 7,if required.NG 7 is one of the best lightweight LMG around.Nevertheless,I would still want PKP or SIG SLMAG .338 as a section level GPMG .

On that note, SOCOM has adopted the new SIG MG-338 and accompaniments:

USSOCOM Completes Safety Certification and Purchase of SIG SAUER MG 338 Machine Guns, Ammunition, and Next Generation Suppressors | Sig Sauer

CRZUC3PA3ZHATLRSM3OTTZDIRU.jpg


7.IMO firearms beside their functionality is also about the emotions they generate,and how one relate to it depending on its name and looks.SSS defence is a very boring and uninspiring name ,same goes for their logo/trademark,nothing of it is relatable or inspiring to one conscious or sub conscious mind nor does it stimulate one senses.I would like to suggest a brand name and logo,Which I have also mentioned previously in this thread.

A few months ago I had made a suggestion to Vivek Krishnan of SSS on Twitter that they ought to rename their brand to "S3" or "S3 Defence". Didn't get any response.
 
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Gautam

Team StratFront
Feb 16, 2019
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Source : Unknowncommando
Jawans from MARATHA LI, GARHWAL & KUMAON Regiments
EXFIL & MKU Helmets
BEL & EoTECH Holo Sight
FAB DEFENSE Modifications
Quarter Zip Combat T Shirts
Tactical Gloves
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EOaLAPCUwAMtJa9.jpg
EOaK-7jUwAAuyek.jpg
EOaJT8BU8AE1Uva.jpg
EOaJUQqVUAAwKQg.jpg
EOaJVAjUYAMkBL_.jpg
EOaJRU9U0AANe7s.jpg
EOaJR6gUYAAdGpO.jpg
EOaJSYuUcAEVVFk.jpg
 

Moondweller

Member
Dec 30, 2019
63
83
Norway
They're really popular with enthusiasts, but how often do you see a drum mag on a carbine in service with an actual military:unsure:? On an HK416 no less.

Capture.JPG


Really cool to see one out the wild in actual military service and not just at your local shooting range.

And just for fun... name this firearm, caliber and country of origin:geek::giggle:.

 
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Parthu

Gessler
Team StratFront
Dec 1, 2017
923
1,805
24
Vizag, India
They're really popular with enthusiasts, but how often do you see a drum mag on a carbine in service with an actual military:unsure:? On an HK416 no less.

View attachment 13244

Really cool to see one out the wild in actual military service and not just at your local shooting range.

Do post a list of firearms you've personally used in service (and those of your personal collection), and about your experiences with each model.

And just for fun... name this firearm, caliber and country of origin:geek::giggle:.


Bor....7.62x51 from Poland.

http://www.zmt.tarnow.pl/wordpress/en/item/762-mm-karabin-wyborowy-bor/
 
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Aniruddha

Member
Oct 3, 2019
224
72
Mumbai
I agree with pretty much everything,most of the weapons purchase all over the world have political,monetary and lobbying influence involved.Rest, due to the secrecy clause not much details come out in the open.Still,it would be interesting to know the reason behind Saudi Arabia opting for ak 103 ,especially when it come to the special forces.It is a fact that in Pakistani trials AK 103 did perform very well,did it influence the Saudi decision or not ,we can't say.

It is good to be informed about various developments ,reports and experiences regarding small arms in forces around the world,for example the opinion of Ukrainian forces was not much favorable towards tavor,whereas there were negative reports regarding the stability of the galil ace top cover from Vietnam.


I think ak 103/ak 203 is one of the best rifles around when it comes to 7.62x39mm,while fielding a rifle in large numbers ak 203 makes a lot of sense due to ease of manufacturing,relatively cheaper price,simplicity to use and maintain ,reliability and good enough accuracy ,it is only let down by the vulnerability of its top cover which affects the stability of the optics mounted on it.The performance of the AK 103 in this video is pretty impressive with 1400 rounds fired and the rifle still going strong,apart from the melting of the polymer hand guard ,there was no damage to the rifle.This is even more impressive when you consider the pencil thin barrel of ak 103 and the use of 7.62x39mm round which is known to generate more heat as it exist barrel.


The only sizable order I want the IWI to have is of Negev NG 7 and Jericho maybe carmel,ARAD could be considered depending on their performance ,but I want our forces to stay away from galil ace and Tavor ,nothing particularly bad in these two platform but ace is know to have issue with its top cover stability and tavor family is overpriced for what its worth.I am not too happy to see the growing number of x95 among CAPF and police forces,better rifles could be bought with similar amount of money,maybe caracal 816 or sig 516,mcx virtus.

When it comes to NG 7 ,I would be happy if it becomes the standard issue LMG of our forces.Although I wished that Sig would field the SLMAG for this tender,unfortunately they stayed away from this,another one of my favorite was Russian PKP,unfortunately it is not chambered for 7.62x51mm . NG 7 is also a very good choice,especially because of its light weight and manageable recoil.These two point are important considering average built of our jawans ,who will be able to easily lug around as well as fire from shoulder,while on move from NG 7,if required.NG 7 is one of the best lightweight LMG around.Nevertheless,I would still want PKP or SIG SLMAG .338 as a section level GPMG .




I from bottom of my heart wish for SSS defence to succeed in small arms not only in India but globally,as a passionate enthusiast and a well wisher my two paise worth of words to them will be :

1. Since they are also in ammunition manufacturing ,built their own version of 6.5 grendel and a rifle for it and try to convince army top brass,MOD and PM office how it makes more sense over the 7.62x39mm,and thus deserve to be the new mass fielded round for Indian forces ,be it army,CAPF or police.I said a version of 6.5 grendel, because it will be more economical ,quicker and easier to do than product development of a completely new round from scratch.

2. Let's assume MOD do want to go ahead with 7.62x39mm ,than they should convince and prove to the MOD,PM himself or AJit doval that their 7.62X39MM rifle can stand upto ak 203 or is a standard above it.It will not be easy, as ak 103/203 is a accomplished product, when it comes to rifles chambered in 7.62x39mm,to prove your rifle worth in front of it will be a tough task,but not something which cannot be done.With PM having already committed to the AK 203 in public,and the hype and PR created around this deal ,it will not be easy to cancel it.But they can be convinced as nothing will be a better example of "Make in India" with our forces adopting a designed and produced rifle in India.It can act as a flagship to the Make in India scheme,and will bring quite a positive PR for the Government.

3.What makes SSS defence different from OFB producing ak 203 or other private manufacturer doing a JV is that unlike others SSS defence hold the IPR for their products.If it receive the stimulus in form of a sizable order ,it could transform into a hub of all kind of small arms solutions .They will invest more in R&D for not only their current lineup but also for new products,and frankly right now SSS defence in the only private sector that has shown its intent on R&D ,whereas others are solely relying on manufacturing right now.So success of SSS defence is imperative for a new dawn in small arm R&D in India.I would relate to what SSS defence is doing in small arms both in work and ambition to what Baba Kalayani is doing in the field of artillery ,both of these effort are crucial for India,and if government has any sense it would hand hold and nurture them right now,and see them flourishing into global giants in their respective fields.

4. If SSS defence has to succeed it has to be aggressive in its approach ,to not only developing new products but also marketing and lobbying it to the the power center of Indian government.If they have to succeed they have to be hungry for it,they should already form a team which beside salesman/women should also consist of ex spec op operators ,who could pitch their products to clients all around the world through live tactical demonstration. They need to create a hype around their products,this is something IWI is very well versed in,and could be looked upto .Beside Indian army ,there are CAPF,state police,Bhutan,Bangladesh,Srilanka,African countries,Philippines etc which will be looking towards new generation of small arms in future.

5. I feel they should have two different lines of thoughts while developing small arms ,one should emphasize on offering best value in reasonable price and quality,well suited for mass manufacturing ,ideal for equipping a large man power in optimum price.Their other line of approach should entirely based on quality,innovation and cutting edge,irrespective of the cost.These should be developed as niche products,targeting a small but crucial customer base of special forces around the world,these line of products would act as a HALO for company,and would help in establishing its name in highly competitive global market.So,have two line of products ,one for mass ,other for class!

6.IMHO one product they should start working on ASAP is a family of pistols,this is one low hanging fruit which will be up for grabs soon be it army,police,or private ownership in India .If they are able to develop a decent and up to date pistols ,they will have quite a lot going for them by the time next tender is issued.This is one section which has immense sale potential worldwide,and something they should start working on right away,so when the times comes(tender),they have a polished product,ready to offer.

7.IMO firearms beside their functionality is also about the emotions they generate,and how one relate to it depending on its name and looks.SSS defence is a very boring and uninspiring name ,same goes for their logo/trademark,nothing of it is relatable or inspiring to one conscious or sub conscious mind nor does it stimulate one senses.I would like to suggest a brand name and logo,Which I have also mentioned previously in this thread :

Name : ARKA / Origin : Sanskrit / Meaning : Ray of light,lightning,Sun

Brand Logo :
View attachment 13151





Of course they are free to choose whatever they like,but I feel a sun with a lighting bolt would look more cool engraved on a firearm than a three dash of SSS defence.I believe when you do something ,then better do it in style.

8 Rest ,I have my opinion regarding their 7.62x39mm rifle design,which I will pen down in my next post ,as and when I get time.
Convincing the Army top brass to leave aside their love for imported maal, kickbacks is going to be an uphill task.
 

Gautam

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Feb 16, 2019
11,788
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Tripura, NE, India
This is old but still shows the kind of experimentation going on with the SVD Dragunov :

1579372072500.png

1579372127313.png


That's the Tonbo Imaging's EK Gen2 TI sight. The manufacturer says the following about the sight :

EK-Gen2 is a smart thermal weapon sight (STWS) designed as a TI weapon sight with an integrated fire control system. It features integrated laser range finder, meteorological sensors and an integrated ballistic computer for real time computation of the bullet drop.

With an integrated sensor package it dramatically increases hit probability and reduces time used for engagement, which in turn raises the overall effectiveness of the weapon system considerably.

It is designed for a variety of small, medium and large caliber weapons including sniper rifles.

EK is based on state-of-the-art HawkVision thermal imaging core. With a 640 x 480 micro bolometer array and advanced thermal image processing.

EK provides a cost effective smart thermal imaging solution to antiquated image intensifier sights offering far superior detection and engagement capabilities along with integrated ballistic calculations.

Unlike any other weapon sight, it is designed with custom tactical mounts that provide zero retention even after firing hundreds of rounds. The sight is designed to maintain zero even if detached and reattached thus allowing soldier to change optics on the battlefield without requiring to zero the weapon.

Capabilities :
  • Integrated
    • Thermal Imager
    • Laser Range Finder
    • GPS
    • Meteorological sensors (temperature / humidity / air pressure)
    • Inertial sensors (gyro, accelerometer, compass)
    • Laser Pointer
    • Ballistic computer
    • Integrated Target Tracking
  • Video / Snapshot Recording
    • Manual
    • Auto trigger on fire
  • Multiple weapon and Ammo support with multiple profiles
  • Multiple Reticle types cross hair, mil-dot, SVD etc
  • Multiple language support
  • Target Geo Referencing
  • Video Streaming over wireless to android based phone/tablet/helmet mounted heads up display
  • Bluetooth support for external Kestrel type MET sensors.
  • External Remote keypad for ease of use
Applications :
  • Handheld Day/Night Laser Range Finder
  • TI Weapon Sight for 84mm Carl Gustaf RCL
  • TI Weapon Sight for Sniper Rifles like Galil, PSG, Dragunov
 
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Gautam

Team StratFront
Feb 16, 2019
11,788
7,909
Tripura, NE, India
Ninda Turtle inaugurating new robotic welding setup for nubs on ammunition shells during his visit to Ordnance Factory at Ambajhari, Nagpur on Saturday, January 18, 2020. Looks like the new OFB 5.56X45 NATO carbine is ready, we will probably see it in Defexpo2020 :
EOnLAasVUAAJQjr.jpg

1579408729555.png
 
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Maximus

Well-Known member
Jan 22, 2019
94
282
India
Convincing the Army top brass to leave aside their love for imported maal, kickbacks is going to be an uphill task.

With greater emphasis on Make in India these days,it should not be difficult ,given that you present a worthy,quality product.

sss defence 7.62.jpg

Talking about their 7.62x39mm rifle prototype chassis :

1.Design - It appears to be an decent design,nothing too radical or wow about it,something which would create an excitement or zeal to know more about it.Eventually it will all boil down to its functionality and performance in real world,but an aesthetically pleasing/unique design will help to create the initial hype and buzz around it,tavor and carmel are good examples of this,which got a lot going for them even before they were tested,just because of how they look.So if SSS defence want to make some mark in global market,it is imperative for them to come with a more radical design,which is futuristic both in its looks as well as function.Create something which create a loud bang visually,something which compel even an non firearm enthusiast to stop and take notice,because of the uniqueness and the radical nature of the design itself.The first impression should be such that it ignite a strong desire to have it,unfortunately this is nothing as such.Just look at the chatter,interest,and hype generated around Tavor,Carmel,AK alfa,CZ bren 2 when they were first introduced,it has a lot to do with the way they looked.See unlike a spring ,a toaster or geyser ,a rifle is something which generate emotions,before anything it's the design which generate the desire to own it ,in our subconscious mind.You are dealing with passion,desire,lust so your product should be which arouse these feeling just by the looks.AK rifles are something which also stimulate these feeling ,but not based on the design but the legacy it has.

2, Stock - Stock appears to be basic M4 type ,adjustable in length,with a rubber recoil pad at back,to further mitigate the felt recoil of 7.62x39mm.If they are not using buffer tube then maybe it will also fold to the side.Again nothing wrong with this stock ,a simple ,sturdy,lightweight and proven design.But then this stock and its derivatives are being used in a number of rifles already.There is nothing new ,exciting in it.A new stock design is required unique to this rifle,which will define the character of this rifle.A lightweight,but meaty design which is adjustable for length,height and folding is what I would desire.If you do not want to create something from scratch ,then take inspiration from the ACR stock,as I feel it is the most well designed stock in the market ,at present.Which is functional,sturdy and beautiful ,it lends a ton of attitude to whichever rifle it is attached to.Create something unique or create your own version of ACR,bren 2,Scar,XCR stock.

The Stock is in line with the barrel,however creator of AK alfa have kept their stock slightly above the barrel.They claim that this reduce the felt recoil and help to keep the rifle stable even in full auto.I think SSS defence should do more research on this claim ,and if working should adopt similar design for their rifle.

3. Pistol grip - This is something which is downright ugly,it also does not gel with the rifle.I would prefer a plain pistol grip.

4.Trigger guard - Going just by the looks ,unlike most of the rifle which have oval ,or circular guard,this looks to have more squarish or cylindrical shape to it.Will be interesting to see it with trigger installed ,to get some idea how good or bad design it is.Somehow looks to me it will be a tight squeeze for free movement of finger.

5. Mag well - I like it,the way design seem to merge with rest of the rifle is nice.

6.The receiver is machined with company signature sign of 4 dash pattern on it.The upper remind me of AK top cover from its shape,however unlike AK top cover ,the upper is monolithic and extend right to the front.The upper and hand guard seem to be one single unit.

7.The hand guard seem to be one single machined aluminium unit,free float with mlok. The design is basic and reminds of an ar pattern rifle,they could have come up with a more unique design ,with some angular elements in it,to further sharpen the looks of the rifle and to impart it some character. The Hand guard and stock are crucial component when it comes to the overall aesthetics of the rifle.Again nothing wrong with the hand guard ,just too plain and basic.

8.Barrel -I have no idea about the barrel,but let me go in general,the length should be around 16 inch to fully utilize the muzzle velocity of 7.62x39m round.It should be chrome lined.I don't have any strong opinion on the production method,but CHF is a time tested and good method which I would prefer.The most important part of barrel is its metallurgy and the kind of steel they are using for their barrel.It will be interesting to know whether they are doing the forging by themselves and the source of the steel,or are they importing ready made barrel at the moment.Regarding thickness of barrel ,there is a general shift towards medium to heavy contour barrel in new military grade rifles,however if you have got your metallurgy right a thin barrel will be just fine for an average soldier.

9.Muzzle device :At the front of the barrel ,there is a standard bird cage flash hider,maybe they could make a hybrid muzzle device to mitigate the recoil and flash simultaneously.

10 Iron sights seem to be flip up,adjustable and removable type,which can be placed anywhere on the top picatinny rail.Rear is the aperture ,while post type at front.These type of adjustable sight,which can be folded are norm in modern rifles.They offer a number of advantages, with the prevalence of use of optics now days,these are only meant for BUIS (Backup Iron Sight).However,imo for military use I feel fixed iron sights are the way to go.

11.Controls - This side of receiver is clean,which means the charging handle ,selector lever as well as ejection port is located on the other side,which also confirms the lack of ambidextrous features.It seem to have a side charging handle(if present at all) ,whether it is reciprocating or non reciprocating type is left to be seen.It seem ,it will have a latch between trigger guard and magwell,to act as mag release ,similar to an ak.The lack of ambidextrous controls and charging handle is a little bit of disappointment.

12.The fit and finish ,looks mediocre at best.Though being an early prototype this can be discounted,however,a much better standard is required if they have to make a name for themselves.I don't like the shade of black used for the polymer parts,make them look cheap.


13. Internals are not visible ,so I cannot comment on them,still I would wish for a adjustable gas block(which seem to be missing) ,a short stroke piston (which they claim) and chrome plating of the components.The disassembly and assembly should be quick and simple with hands,without any tools.The major internal parts required to take down during field striping should be kept minimum,and they should be big enough,so as to not get lost in the field during quick field strip.



Quick summary of my wish list for the rifle :

1.Design - I would want a unique design,with slim profile,which is not only cool to look at but also has a character of its own.A lot more visually appealing design without compromising on the ergonomics.

2.Stock should be adjustable in height and length,if they are not using buffer then side folding too.They can take inspiration from the ACR stock.

3.I don't like the present pistol grip(looks),either keep it plain like this


or design a better grip.

4. Make sure the trigger guard is big enough to enable the shooter to fire with gloves on.The trigger is missing ,but having made a sniper rifle I am sure they are well versed with the importance of a good smooth trigger.

5. Mag well is good.

6. Machined receiver is good,although could be designed better.

7.Free floating hand guard is nice,use of mlok is also a plus ,however design is plain and boring.

8.Barrel should be decided between medium or heavy,chrome lined and minimum 16 inch for 7.62x39mm.It will be great if they could have any kind of heat sink.

9.Bird cage flash hider is fine ,but a better designed muzzle device both in form and functionality can be done.

10.I would prefer fixed iron sights for military use.Although a good quality and design flip up sights would be just fine.Instead of mounting the front sight on the picatinny rail,they could mount it a fixed ,fold able font sight on the gas block ,just like the scar.

11 Ambidextrous control,with either side or front mounted non reciprocating charging handle.A brass deflector at the ejection port.

12.Fit and finish could be a ton better.

13.Adjustable gas block,chrome plated gas block,muzzle device and BCG. Field strip should be possible without any tools.Big and less number of parts for cleaning for simple maintenance. A short stroke piston.

These are the following rifles which are my favorite in term of engineering and would like them to study and draw inspiration from them -AR 18,AK ,Sig MCX virtus patrol,Spear,XCR,IWI carmel,BREN 2,HK 416,433,Scar H.











P.S ALL this is strictly my opinion based on the photo .


Even though this carbine is of decent design ,it's just too little ,too late .I would prefer caracal 816 over it.


Another interesting reveal is the new sniper rifle,which seem to be made of either polymer or aluminium and sporting a higher caliber than 7.62x51mm,judging by the thickness of the barrel .The presence of suppressor is also a heartening sight.
trichy rail.jpg



Also good to see Trichy rifle (based on the machined receiver and 90 degree gas block) sporting a picatinny rail integrated on top cover,similar to Ak 203,also from the shortened length of the barrel and gas block it appears to be a compact CQB version of trichy assault rifle .Although disappointing to see them still using the slant compensator ,when much better muzzle device are available in form and function.


It is good to see a micro red dot mounted over the scope,this is how it should be done while using thermal or night vision scopes.


Sig Sauer is now also bringing 716 with DI ,up till now it was only Short stroke piston.
 
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Moondweller

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Do post a list of firearms you've personally used in service (and those of your personal collection), and about your experiences with each model.

I see your Google-fu is strong, but you're right. it's a Bor rifle from Poland.

Next I'll do one you can't reverse search:devilish:.

Do post a list of firearms you've personally used in service (and those of your personal collection), and about your experiences with each model.

Sure. I own a fair number of firearms, so it'll take a while to do a write-up on them and I've fired far more either in-field or at the range, foreign and domestic, so be patient with me. I'll do a full write-up after doing some tabulation on what all I've had the pleasure or pain of firing.

But as an appetizer I'll at least go over those I've "officially" fired or used during my service history. During my service I was assigned to a search and rescue unit where I was trained to perform any battlefield action short of open heart and brain surgery. Norway has limited SAR units and personnel, some are trained for combat ops and are akin to the American PJs or Unit 669 of the Older Forum. They are trained EMTs and paramedics , trained marksman, trained divers (including operating from submarines), trained parachutists (fixed and rotor-wing insertion), trained drivers (evasive driving, fast boat operations, foreign vehicle commandeering) trained forward air controllers, linguists (I'm fluent in English, Norwegian, Swedish, Icelandic, Russian and Polish. Some grasp on German, Spanish and Danish), and if needed, trained to support combat operations and direct actions. That was me.

When we flew it was to fight.

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Disclosure: my service history didn't end when I left active service.

...

Norwegian soldiers are trained to fire some basic firearms depending on their specialization and assigned unit - P80 (Glock 17), HK417, MG3, FN Minimi Mossberg 500 or Benelli M4, FN MAG, MP7 - but I've had the pleasure of firing or using a number of others including the HK417 during aerial gunnery ops, the Barrett M82 for special actions including mine and fast boat interdiction, aging C8 and a few others such as the now retired AG3. I primarily spent time with a P80 as my side-arm, an HK416 or HK417 as my primary and occasionally fired M82. The AG3 was a training weapon during basic, but I wont really touch on it here.

...

The P80 is super reliable, super accurate - 1.5" group at 25 yards - super durable and I dropped, stepped on or otherwise abused mine in ways that make me feel very dirty on numerous occasions:devilish:. It's idiot proof. I'm an idiot and even I couldn't screw it up. The frame is light, as is the recoil. I'm by no means a large lady, actually rather small, but the P80 is one of the most easy to use pistols I've fired. One handed, two handed, doesn't matter, it's an easy gun to shoot. The trigger does taking some getting used to. Glock has implemented a host of safety measures and pressure does need to be applied constantly across the entire trigger or else it wont fire, but that's no big deal for a trained soldier.

My only issue with it isn't even with the gun itself but the caliber. The 9mm round over penetrates and in urban environments the round is not just likely, but often does travel far beyond the target. It's a risk to harm innocent bystanders. I prefer the .40 cal variant. .45 is a bit too much and limits the mag size too greatly. But meh, overall the Glock 17 is a dream to shoot.

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The HK416N was one of my primaries, but I've also had time on the HK416K carbine, a short barrel variant for ship self-defence teams and special operations units. Ours lacked on the biggest issues on the standard 416 variants - a fixed front post. Norway specifically specified a flip-up front sight so it could mount optics on the rifles with an unobstructed view. Other changes are that the rifles are acclimatized for use in the cold, wet and mountainous terrain of Norway... making them perfect for forays into Afghanistan too.

The HK416 almost never needs to be cleaned due to its operating system and can be broken down and put back together in a few minutes. Dropped in mud, chucked in snow, dumped from a helicopter down a cliff and into a stream, it always kept spitting lead down field. One unique quirk of the operating system is that adding a suppressor actually increases the cyclical rate! But we rarely ever did that except on specialist missions.

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I'm not a bad shot. Good enough to be an aerial marksman with an HK417, good enough to shoot from a fast boat at 40 knots, good enough to put accurate lead down range in-field under fire. The HK416 is a very accurate weapon if you're patient. It's not a good spray-and-pray rifle, but only because it's so freaking accurate. On full auto from 200 meters using either 5.56mm or .300BLK rounds, suppressor or none, we could unload a 30 round mag within a 3" group on full auto. I don't think I ever fired mine on full auto:whistle:.

Better tighten up those shots recruit:mad:! 3" at 30 meters? Unacceptable. Well ok, good enough for passing basic, I guess.

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When I first enlisted I couldn't hit a damn thing. I'd consistently shoot high. Aim at the groin, hit them in the chest. Aim at the chest, land shots square between the eyes. The scope on these rifles isn't anything to write home about, standard stuff, but they didn't malfunction and weren't hard to zero. I, turns out, needed glasses and later corrective surgery:oops::LOL:. The perks of being the daughter of a high ranking officer is that I wasn't outright DQ'd for not being able to hit a mountain from 10 meters, but I wasn't exactly free from embarrassment either early on. No issues now and the HK416 is as accurate as you. Great rifle.

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The mags are unnecessarily heavy. If you run of of rounds you could always just bludgeon someone to death when an empty mag:rolleyes:.

As much as I adore the HK416, the Hk417 was and always will be my first love:love:. Everything I wrote about the HK416 above, except the part about me not being able to hit anything, applies to the HK417. It's reliable, accurate, light, easy to maintain and fun as hell to shoot, especially from a move helicopter. Learning to lead a moving target and being able to hit it is a rush. Leaning to trail a target and being able to hit it, repeatedly and accurately is a thrill I can't describe. It's so unique. Most militaries don't have the resources to train their marksman in aerial gunnery so for me to not only have that opportunity, but learning and plying my trade was both an honor and a head rush. Seriously, I can't stress enough how fun it is to learn the techniques - quieting the rifle using your hand or sling to dampen vibrations, compensating for prop-wash, trailing a target so the bullet curves into the target as you pass, range, elevation and vector, it's such a thrill and so unique.

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I trained to do the same on fast assault craft and assault vehicles(y).

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The recoil on the Hk417 isn't unmanageable, but it is heavier then the Hk416 due to the larger round. It's stiff and can catch you by surprise if you're used to smaller calibers. The muzzle flash is also a pain and is surprisingly large, even with a compensator or flash suppressor, but that's actually a design feature believe it or not. There's a reason we usually used suppressors for ops with the HK417.

Our's could, but weren't used on full auto. Doing so could and would leave bruises after 60 rounds due to the heavier recoil. Notice the pattern of the bruises on this marksman? Yup, a dead match for the HK417's stock. The 417 is just downright unpleasant to fire as a battle rifle. It's too big and too powerful and too painful during extended usage.

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But used as a marksman rifle it's just too much fun.

The Barrett M82 is a fun, fun rifle to shoot. Loud, heavy, recoil that will break your shoulder if you're not respectful - it's similar to a 12 gauge shotgun - it's a pain to lug around but a hoot to shoot. It's accurate even for a semi-auto and with the MK211 high explosive round you didn't need to be dead on with your shooting either. The M82 is somewhat limited on ammo options though. Either standard ball ammo or the MK211 is generally issued. SLAP rounds - saboted light armor penetrator rounds (jacketed .308 armor penetrating core) - often cause near immediate barrel degradation due to the extreme pressures the round generates. Ball ammo isn't especially accurate either, so most often the MK211 is the standard round for the M82.

It's not a sniper rifle. They can reach out to 2000 meters but aren't accurate enough to engage rapidly on a pin-point target. 4 MOA is military standard for engagements at 300 meters. That should give you an idea of what these rifles are used for operationally That's why explosive rounds are the go-to and why the rifle is generally gear towards light-armored targets, technical or low-flying/grounded aircraft.

Loud, huge muzzle blast angled 45 degrees behind the rifle, powerful, fun. It's a blast to shoot.

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There you are. A bit of my experiences with the four main firearms I used during my service career. Although this is by no means an exhaustive list of weapons I fired or was trained on, just those I had in my hands the most.

I'll do a write-up on my own firearms and those I've used operationally that aren't in Norwegian service and how I like or compare them to those I'm more familiar with next.
 
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Parthu

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The mags are unnecessarily heavy. If you run of of rounds you could always just bludgeon someone to death when an empty mag:rolleyes:.

Something I always wondered...why don't guns like HK416 or SCAR family go with polymer magazines in a big way? Quite a lot of civilian gun buyers in the US put down money on polymer mags, in fact even the USMC recently started issuing Magpul PMAGs. But the metal ones don't seem to be going out of fashion anytime soon, even the new HK433 comes with metal as standard. Is it because of reliability problems with polymer?

Though the latest 416 variant (A7) seems to be testing waters with a rather awkward-looking polymer mag:

 
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Moondweller

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Something I always wondered...why don't guns like HK416 or SCAR family go with polymer magazines in a big way? Quite a lot of civilian gun buyers in the US put down money on polymer mags, in fact even the USMC recently started issuing Magpul PMAGs. But the metal ones don't seem to be going out of fashion anytime soon, even the new HK433 comes with metal as standard. Is it because of reliability problems with polymer?

Though the latest 416 variant (A7) seems to be testing waters with a rather awkward-looking polymer mag:


Good question. The way I see it is a debate between reliability and weight. Steel mags are heavier, but are generally more reliable and durable long-term. Both have very little issue handling abuse from being dropped or stepped on or chunked into a mud puddle, but where steel has an advantage is the reliability of its feed lips.



Steel mags will eventually suffer from issues with their springs, but the feed lips, the most problematic part of any magazine, tend not to warp or wear out. On the contrary polymer magazines will see their springs wear out and the magazine's feed lips crack or thin over time. Their failure rate while small, is higher then steel magazines. Steel also feeds faster, which is nice during an extended engagement when you want as much lead downrange as possible.

I have to suspect the USMC is not adopting a true polymer only mag, but what's called a "Lancer Magazine". These are a polymer mag design with the typical cutouts to check ammo capacity, but have steel feed lips for reliability and long-term durability.



 

Parthu

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I have to suspect the USMC is not adopting a true polymer only mag, but what's called a "Lancer Magazine". These are a polymer mag design with the typical cutouts to check ammo capacity, but have steel feed lips for reliability and long-term durability.




Heard of these, seen guys from SOCOM (primarily Green berets) talk about them. Saw the Marines' Gunner Wade use some once.

The ones USMC is adopting aren't Lancer mags though, they're the standard Gen M3 PMAG from Magpul, with the slit window & everything -



...and with the standard polymer feed lips (and follower):

 

Ashwin

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Brazilian gunmaker Taurus signs JV with Indian steel group Jindal - filing

SAO PAULO, Jan 27 (Reuters) - Brazilian gunmaker Taurus Armas SA has signed a joint venture with Indian steelmaker Jindal Group to produce guns in India, according to a securities filing on Monday.
Under the agreement, Jindal will hold a 51% stake in the venture and Taurus the remaining shares. The deal was signed during Brazil’s President Jair Bolsonaro visit to India. (Reporting by Carolina Mandl; Editing by Jan Harvey)
 
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Gautam

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DefExpo-2020: Made in India Viper and Sabre snipers ! Check details

By: Huma Siddiqui | New Delhi | Published: January 30, 2020 9:28:45 AM

Speaking to Financial Express Online, a top company executive said “All these weapons are purely made in India. And will on display at the DefExpo next week.”

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Dinesh Shivanna, Chief Technology Officer, Satish R Machani, Managing Director and Vivek Krishnan, Chief Executive Officer of SSS Defence.(Photo: SSS Defence)

The latest version of Sniper rifles, assault rifles, upgrade kits, optics, small calibre ammunition & tactical gears will be displayed by the Bengaluru based SSS Defence Company. Speaking to Financial Express Online, a top company executive said “All these weapons are purely made in India. And will on display at the DefExpo next week.” As has been reported earlier, this is the first time ever a private sector company in India has made a sniper rifle in two calibres. And these have not only been designed and developed indigenously by a passionate technical team in a laboratory but also manufactured in India.

The company SSS Defence holds the IPR and has a joint venture with a Brazilian company CBC Global Ammunition for these snipers.

Until now no Indian private sector company has manufactured military-grade ammunition for the small arms. Under the joint venture with the Brazilian company, plans are to manufacture multiple ammunition for different calibres including the 9 mm, 7.62×39 mm,7.62×51 mm, .338 Lapua and 12.7 mm. These will be both for the domestic (military & law enforcement) and for exporting to a third country.

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SSS Defence Viper a Sub MoA precision sniper rifle chambered for the .3087.62×51 mm cartridge.(Photo: SSS Defence)

More than Rs 20 crore has been invested by the SSS Defence in R&D and IP asset creation which is used for all their verticals including -Small Arms, Optics, and Ammunition.

According to company officials, the focus is to create a manufacturing and exporting hub for weapons like snipers. “This will help in cutting down India’s dependence on foreign Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs) for not only the weapons but also optics and ammunition.”

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SSS Defence Viper a Sub MoA precision sniper rifle chambered for the .3087.62×51 mm cartridge.(Photo: SSS Defence)

“The rifle has a two-stage trigger which has been designed indigenously and it also has highly efficient muzzle brake and sound suppressor. They have been designed for accurate and long-range precision shooting.”

The `Viper’ chambered for the .308 (7.62×51 mm cartridge) and the `Sabre’ .338 Lapua Magnum Cartridge (8.6×70 mm cartridge) are preferred by both military and law enforcement snipers across the world. These have been ergonomically designed keeping in mind the Indian soldier and his body built, finger length etc.

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SSS Defence Viper a Sub MoA precision sniper rifle chambered for the .3087.62×51 mm cartridge.(Photo: SSS Defence)

An Assault Rifle 7.62×39 mm calibre and Close Quarter Battle Carbine platforms have been undergoing testing after completion of development.

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SSS Defence Viper a Sub MoA precision sniper rifle chambered for the .3087.62×51 mm cartridge.(Photo: SSS Defence)

Indian Army needs 5,719 rifles with ammunition. And SSS Defence has plans for manufacturing 15000 arms per annum from day one during Phase 1 and in Phase II 45,000 arms per annum and then gradually scale it up to 80,000 arms per annum in some years.

DefExpo-2020: Made in India Viper and Sabre snipers! Check details
 
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