Russia and India extended the license for the production of T-90S until 2028

randomradio

Senior member
Joined
Nov 30, 2017
Messages
6,598
Location
India
Reactions
4,290 840 0
#1
Россия и Индия продлили лицензию на производство Т-90С до 2028 года

Russia and India signed a contract to extend the production of T-90S tanks until 2028, Russian Minister of Industry and Trade Denis Manturov told RIA Novosti on Tuesday, February 4 .

“In 2019, a contract was signed with the Indian side to extend the licensed production program for T-90S tanks until 2028, and, as we know, the Defense Procurement Council approved the production of 464 tanks of this model,” he said.

The Minister also added that the Indian side made proposals for the supply and joint production of BTR-82A, BMP-3 and self-propelled anti-tank gun Octopus SDM1.

On April 8, it became known that the Indian government decided to purchase an additional batch of 464 T-90MS tanks for its armed forces. According to the head of the Bureau of Military-Political Analysis, Alexander Mikhailov, it is planned to equip 10 tank regiments of the Indian army with new T-90MS tanks .

In February, American media reported that the Russian T-90MS tank is a serious combat vehicle with great export potential.

The T-90S is an export version of the T-90 tank, which was adopted by the Russian army more than a quarter century ago. For high maneuverability, the armored car was dubbed a flying tank.
 

randomradio

Senior member
Joined
Nov 30, 2017
Messages
6,598
Location
India
Reactions
4,290 840 0
#3
So, as I understand it, T-90 production will go on until 2028, and we will be producing 464 T-90S followed by 464 T-90MS.

Otoh, this is my speculation, the Octopus, BTR-82A and BMP-3 will be used to equip mountain units, along with 464 T-90MS. 6 regiments may be earmarked for Sikkim and the remaining 4 regiments for Ladakh. I recall we need as many as 300 Octopus class light tanks for the mountains. It's like we are raising a whole new armoured force to deal with China, separate from the current armoured units facing Pakistan, which will eventually be modernised with FICV and FRCV.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
213
Location
Mumbai
Reactions
61 4 0
#4
So, as I understand it, T-90 production will go on until 2028, and we will be producing 464 T-90S followed by 464 T-90MS.

Otoh, this is my speculation, the Octopus, BTR-82A and BMP-3 will be used to equip mountain units, along with 464 T-90MS. 6 regiments may be earmarked for Sikkim and the remaining 4 regiments for Ladakh. I recall we need as many as 300 Octopus class light tanks for the mountains. It's like we are raising a whole new armoured force to deal with China, separate from the current armoured units facing Pakistan, which will eventually be modernised with FICV and FRCV.
So with BMP-3 and BTR-82A production(read: screwdrivergiri) to be done in India and possibly induction into the army, indigenous FICV and WhAP will be shown the middle finger.
 

randomradio

Senior member
Joined
Nov 30, 2017
Messages
6,598
Location
India
Reactions
4,290 840 0
#5
So with BMP-3 and BTR-82A production(read: screwdrivergiri) to be done in India and possibly induction into the army, indigenous FICV and WhAP will be shown the middle finger.
FICV will go on. Not so sure about the WhaP though.

The BMP-3 may be inducted as a stop gap or specifically for the mountains where you really need proven systems, especially if the entire armour family is coming from Russia. There was a plan to buy 150 IFVs and 198 wheeled APCs. So this could be it.

Indian Army planning to buy 150 armoured combat vehicles

Indian Army looking for new 8x8 APCs

It's also possible the Russians are merely offering the BMP-3 and BTR-82A as their contenders for the army's RFIs and it's not a done deal.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
213
Location
Mumbai
Reactions
61 4 0
#8
T-90MS is the only deal worth doing. We need the upgraded 2A46M5 gun and the 740mm penetration at 2km Sinvets-1 APFSDS to counter Chinese tanks.
All other platforms are not at all necessary.
 

randomradio

Senior member
Joined
Nov 30, 2017
Messages
6,598
Location
India
Reactions
4,290 840 0
#9
T-90MS is the only deal worth doing. We need the upgraded 2A46M5 gun and the 740mm penetration at 2km Sinvets-1 APFSDS to counter Chinese tanks.
All other platforms are not at all necessary.
We need the Sprut as well. Or something else in its class.

The latest Sprut carries the 2A46M-5 main gun and its ammo, including missiles. A C-17/IL-76 can carry 2 of these.

Another reason is the army chief said we need theatre-specific weapons systems. So wahtever's being designed for plains cannot be used on mountains.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2019
Messages
213
Location
Mumbai
Reactions
61 4 0
#10
We need the Sprut as well. Or something else in its class.

The latest Sprut carries the 2A46M-5 main gun and its ammo, including missiles. A C-17/IL-76 can carry 2 of these.

Another reason is the army chief said we need theatre-specific weapons systems. So wahtever's being designed for plains cannot be used on mountains.
Sprut light tank or Octopus SDM1 are good options but we should look to mount a 120mm/125mm on the Kestrel hull for our indigenous light tank.
Sprut light tank or Octopus SDM1 are good options but we should look to mount a 120mm/125mm on the Kestrel hull for our indigenous light tank.
Something like this Type 16 tank destroyer of the Japanese Armed Forces.
images (17).jpeg
 

randomradio

Senior member
Joined
Nov 30, 2017
Messages
6,598
Location
India
Reactions
4,290 840 0
#11
Sprut light tank or Octopus SDM1 are good options but we should look to mount a 120mm/125mm on the Kestrel hull for our indigenous light tank.

Something like this Type 16 tank destroyer of the Japanese Armed Forces.
View attachment 14271
There are quite a few like that, Stryker, Centauro etc, but it's unclear if the army is interested in a variant with a tank gun on an 8x8.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

Senior member
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Messages
3,852
Reactions
2,010 973 0
#12
With the coming of Long Range ATGMs like SPIKE -- LR /ER , Armoured Corps will
See maximum Casualties

The future of Warfare lies in Artillery
Rockets, Missiles and Airpower

And Pakistanis will have plenty of Suicide bombing squads who will mount Vehicle Borne IED attacks And RPG attacks
 

Sulla84

Well-Known member
Joined
May 31, 2019
Messages
756
Location
India
Reactions
438 166 0
#13
With the coming of Long Range ATGMs like SPIKE -- LR /ER , Armoured Corps will
See maximum Casualties

The future of Warfare lies in Artillery
Rockets, Missiles and Airpower

And Pakistanis will have plenty of Suicide bombing squads who will mount Vehicle Borne IED attacks And RPG attacks
There will always be a place for contact warfare.. ultimately infantry (boots on the ground) will occupy territory, and that will need armour to back them up... you soften them up before moving your armour in with artillery and missiles. Vehicles, soldiers .. wielding spike - lr can be taken out by close air support ..
 

STEPHEN COHEN

Senior member
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Messages
3,852
Reactions
2,010 973 0
#14
There will always be a place for contact warfare.. ultimately infantry (boots on the ground) will occupy territory, and that will need armour to back them up... you soften them up before moving your armour in with artillery and missiles. Vehicles, soldiers .. wielding spike - lr can be taken out by close air support ..
For a country that could not handle One Abhinandan in enemy custody , How will our people react when we have casualties
Happening On the Enemy territory

Our people ONLY WANT SACRIFICE
While defending and protecting our land

All left -- liberals will start crying the moment We attack Pakistan

Kargil was different , we were taking back our territory

Our people have rotten DNA

And Given our better financial condition
We should spend heavily on stand off weapons

For Pakistan the biggest worry is Loss
Of Assets since they cannot replace them

So if they lose large number of assets on the ground and in the Air , And on The SEA, they will never again mess with us

I am always sceptical about this plan to take back POk
 
Last edited:

Sulla84

Well-Known member
Joined
May 31, 2019
Messages
756
Location
India
Reactions
438 166 0
#15
I am always sceptical about this plan to take back POk
Modi had no intent to take back pok.. India deescalated not because people on Twitter and media were clamoring for Abhinandan's return, but because Modi wanted to deescalate.. If, Modi had responded to PAF attack on our military installations, by launching a dozen Brahmos and other bombs on 10 Pakistani bases, killing hundreds of pakistani soldiers. .and destroying the bases; the next day, nobody would even have bothered about Abhinandan, because the conflict would have escalated to a whole new level.. So, no use blaming the public... For, all the qatal ki raat talk by Modi, the endgame of GOI was forcing a descalation.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

Senior member
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Messages
3,852
Reactions
2,010 973 0
#16
Modi had no intent to take back pok.. India deescalated not because people on Twitter and media were clamoring for Abhinandan's return, but because Modi wanted to deescalate.. If, Modi had responded to PAF attack on our military installations, by launching a dozen Brahmos and other bombs on 10 Pakistani bases, killing hundreds of pakistani soldiers. .and destroying the bases; the next day, nobody would even have bothered about Abhinandan, because the conflict would have escalated to a whole new level.. So, no use blaming the public... For, all the qatal ki raat talk by Modi, the endgame of GOI was forcing a descalation.
Modi was assured by US And Saudi that
Abhinandan would be released immediately

And by doing so we lost all reasons to escalate

Secondly , I believe that Govt was Not happy with IAF response and performance on Feb 27 , especially the absence of SDR
And MI 17 shot down

So they realised that it would be better to
First FIX all deficiencies

This is what the Pork-is also talk about

That is all that PAF did was Point out to IAF , what they needed to do

In Hindsight we learnt a lot with the loss of just One MIG 21

And Pork--is not only exposed all their tactics and tricks but ALSO lost an F 16

So the Net beneficiary was India

All that " Un official and undeclared "
Attacks that have happened ie
Muzafarabad , Chakoti , Tarbela, Athmuqam , Fort Abbas , Some places near Sialkot and Akhnoor -- all this will only help in breaking the enemy morale

But people like Us -- who say "Dil Maange More " have been left unsatisfied -- ie till these undeclared attacks are declared like
The 2002 Mirage 2000 Attacks became known after 10 years
 

randomradio

Senior member
Joined
Nov 30, 2017
Messages
6,598
Location
India
Reactions
4,290 840 0
#17
Okay, I have found out what the BTR-82A, Octopus and BMP-3 are for. These are just Russia's planned offers to some of IA's upcoming tenders.

The BTR and BMP are for support units and not the main armour and infantry forces, so it supposed to be inducted in small numbers. And before anyone says anything about Kestrel, FICV etc, support units need proven systems, not development models. Also their requirement is immediate, whereas Kestrel and FICV will take a long time to finish development and primary army units will induct those first, so support units will get them far into the future, as much as 10 years after inductions begin, hence pointless at this time. This requirement is for artillery units and engineers.

The Octopus is obviously for the light tank requirement for mountains. There should be other contenders as well.
 

STEPHEN COHEN

Senior member
Joined
Dec 4, 2017
Messages
3,852
Reactions
2,010 973 0
#18
Okay, I have found out what the BTR-82A, Octopus and BMP-3 are for. These are just Russia's planned offers to some of IA's upcoming tenders.

The BTR and BMP are for support units and not the main armour and infantry forces, so it supposed to be inducted in small numbers. And before anyone says anything about Kestrel, FICV etc, support units need proven systems, not development models. Also their requirement is immediate, whereas Kestrel and FICV will take a long time to finish development and primary army units will induct those first, so support units will get them far into the future, as much as 10 years after inductions begin, hence pointless at this time. This requirement is for artillery units and engineers.

The Octopus is obviously for the light tank requirement for mountains. There should be other contenders as well.
If we look at " Indian Army Equipment " in
Wikipedia , there are many different types of Vehicles and Combat support equipment

When were they acquired , nobody knows

But it is only the BIG weapon systems
-- Tanks , Artillery and Missiles ,That create curiosity