Rafale RB of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

sunstersun

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Dec 4, 2017
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There is a file number referenced on the response letter I received. I will keep this reference and I am sure that my new letter will be taken seriously even if there is a new team after the election. But the most likely outcome is the re-election of Macron.

We are all praying for the re-election of Macron. Europe cannot afford to dither rn at all.
 

Bon Plan

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Dec 1, 2017
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We are all praying for the re-election of Macron. Europe cannot afford to dither rn at all.
Europe is only a commercial entity, far from a political one.
Macron is a little bit alone in Europe about its future.
And nowadays the frenchpeople is mostly for right aisle ideas. So Macron re election is all but not achieved.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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So I have something to write my letter about

Pushing for FCAS cooperation with India is always an option. But it's a very, very difficult proposition to make to India because DRDO can claim to make the same stuff for much cheaper while maintaining full strategic autonomy.

The difference is cooperation will get us a result by 2040, whereas DRDO's effort could take up to 2050. So the 10-year advantage is a selling point. But that's where DRDO will argue that a stop gap purchase can be made to make up for the 10-year difference while also offering greater advancements by 2050 with a superior design. Nevertheless, they will still argue that AMCA Mk2 will be more than enough. Even an Mk3 can be made available to replace the first 3 MKI squadrons before the main replacement comes in. The IAF have way too many options for them to be convinced by FCAS beyond a stop gap purchase.
 

Optimist

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Oct 31, 2021
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Without real world testing on an aircraft carrier how would navy know how much Rafale M can carry on mission and lands safely and how much space will it take, and how it can fit into the lifts. Same for F18sh.

Personally I think F18sh has an upper hand due to folding wings and the fact it will be available almost immediately if leased and also the speed at which Boeing can deliver newly built too at faster pace than Rafale...
It's probably the last thing India needs. Is another small number buy and the costs of running another separate platform. They need to do the sums, but there may be a cost benefit in buying the Rafale. To make the fleet bigger. You aren't going to send either of them against china 5th gen 2030.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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Pushing for FCAS cooperation with India is always an option. But it's a very, very difficult proposition to make to India because DRDO can claim to make the same stuff for much cheaper while maintaining full strategic autonomy.

The difference is cooperation will get us a result by 2040, whereas DRDO's effort could take up to 2050. So the 10-year advantage is a selling point. But that's where DRDO will argue that a stop gap purchase can be made to make up for the 10-year difference while also offering greater advancements by 2050 with a superior design. Nevertheless, they will still argue that AMCA Mk2 will be more than enough. Even an Mk3 can be made available to replace the first 3 MKI squadrons before the main replacement comes in. The IAF have way too many options for them to be convinced by FCAS beyond a stop gap purchase.
Thank you for the warning. I have already written my letter but I still need to write a technical annex, which the President will not read but which may help his cabinet to validate my proposal.

I am convinced that if France and India work together, we can do much better than the US or China and that Asia's stability needs it.

France is too small to be a pole of stability, Europe could but it has the same ambitions as Germany: to become an economic giant and remain a political dwarf .... which is a bit contradictory on a European scale.

India can be this pole of stability in front of the US, which has been a troublemaker for over 60 years, and China, which has worrying expansionist aims. And it can do so simply by being well equipped, in a deterrent way, without being aggressive.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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It's probably the last thing India needs. Is another small number buy and the costs of running another separate platform. They need to do the sums, but there may be a cost benefit in buying the Rafale. To make the fleet bigger. You aren't going to send either of them against china 5th gen 2030.

Cost benefit depends on how much modification the Rafale and the carriers need though. But since the deal is gonna be a GTG instead of tender, the technical specs will be the most important criteria. All the Rafale has to do is meet the IN's specs.

We are going to send them up against Chinese fighters, but not directly. We will also be operating drones alongside these fighters, which is why the avionics build networking of these jets is more important than whether they have stealth or not.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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Thank you for the warning. I have already written my letter but I still need to write a technical annex, which the President will not read but which may help his cabinet to validate my proposal.

I am convinced that if France and India work together, we can do much better than the US or China and that Asia's stability needs it.

France is too small to be a pole of stability, Europe could but it has the same ambitions as Germany: to become an economic giant and remain a political dwarf .... which is a bit contradictory on a European scale.

India can be this pole of stability in front of the US, which has been a troublemaker for over 60 years, and China, which has worrying expansionist aims. And it can do so simply by being well equipped, in a deterrent way, without being aggressive.

India and France have a symbiotic relationship, so the political aspects are fine. The only real hurdles for FCAS are how much you can impress DRDO and the Ministry of Finance, nothing more.
 
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thinkingcap81

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Jun 2, 2019
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India and France have a symbiotic relationship, so the political aspects are fine. The only real hurdles for FCAS are how much you can impress DRDO and the Ministry of Finance, nothing more.
Impress DRDO dreaming of greatness and ensuring their survival at the same time :LOL: and the Finance Ministry running a ration shop.
 
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AbRaj

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1642188517160.png

if true , imagine how hopeless the rest of IAF fleet is compared to any modern airforce with 5th gen jets and good AD Systems.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil

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Longback also I had written that Rafale had complete dominance in BVR fight but only with Su-30MKI in dogfight it was found wanting.
That was not my question, what I would like to know is whether this exercise took place and whether the report is accurate. What you said was related to another exercise where the French could have been surprised by particular tactics allowed by the TVC, whereas today the surprise effect does not exist any more especially for Indian pilots.
 

halloweene

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Dec 1, 2017
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Before our President's visit to India in December 2017, I had written to Macron for him to propose French assistance for the development of your AMCA with explanations on the interest of the approach. To my great surprise, the President's office gave me an official reply saying that my suggestion was taken into account, and I have since noticed that this possible help was one of the questions asked in the MRFA's RFI. The evolution of this type of approach if the MRFA were to come to fruition would be to push even further into cooperation on the SCAF.
I did the same and had a similar answer...
 

vstol Jockey

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Dec 1, 2017
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That was not my question, what I would like to know is whether this exercise took place and whether the report is accurate. What you said was related to another exercise where the French could have been surprised by particular tactics allowed by the TVC, whereas today the surprise effect does not exist any more especially for Indian pilots.
These are normal activities to work up a newly raised squadron and part of training of its new pilots. DACTS very common in air bases where different type of aircraft are based. These are not announced as such but take place regularly.
In earlier excercises with Frecn AF in Rajasthan, Su-30MKI had advantage in dogfights due to TVC and HMDS which Rafale lacked that time. But Indian Rafale are equipped with HMDS. So they might reduce the advantage which SU-30MKIs had. The real game changer will be IRST+MICA-NG as it will allow Rafale to hit any aircraft from very long range without even transmitting a signal. complate passive engagement at nearly 100kms. In excercises in Rajasthan, the BVR shots were taken at 50 kms range.
 
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_Anonymous_

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Dec 4, 2017
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France completes first engine test for FCAS fighter jet

Unless France requires money or has a geopolitical strategy, i don' think that the French will care much about India's participation. The French know they have a good defense industry and are way too ahead of us in fighter aircraft design.
If France or Russia want India it's primarily for the moolah with cheap manufacturing & outsourcing being an added attraction for the former not the latter.
 

thinkingcap81

Active member
Jun 2, 2019
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If France or Russia want India it's primarily for the moolah with cheap manufacturing & outsourcing being an added attraction for the former not the latter.
Yeah, plus assured purchases from us as well. An acceptable sharing of the design workload is not going to be easy to decide. I think that it will be practical for us to just participate in certain areas where we require help and also where we can contribute. For example we contributed in the propulsion of the Barak-8 missile system with Israel.
 
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randomradio

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France completes first engine test for FCAS fighter jet

Unless France requires money or has a geopolitical strategy, i don' think that the French will care much about India's participation. The French know they have a good defense industry and are way too ahead of us in fighter aircraft design.

The French want financial assistance and assured orders for a proper 50-50 JV, where both sides end up ordering pretty much the same amount of jets. And they want a partner that is properly politically aligned with their interests. France and India have more in common in terms of security threats than France and Germany. So, for France, there isn't a better partner than India.

But we have no need for FCAS. We are working on our own family of systems which will be operational by 2030-35.
 
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