Rafale RB of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

Ashwin

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Give it will be a new fleet of planes, that should be achievable. Depending on how many spare engines you get. They have about a 12 month turnaround for major repair. Going by the link, the government say they are cannibalising 14. Probably because of not being able to be repaired. Possible frame cracking or similar terminal issue. They still have ongoing 'engine issues'.

"Out of 102 Rafale available to the AAE in 2020, 14 were immobilized to be "cannibalized" .... Mr. Ferrara. “Taking into account the issues related to the engine and the level of operational support [NSO], the operational technical availability [DTO] of the Rafale [air and navy] reached 55.8% in the first half of 2021"
This is the same for every modern fighter aircraft. Upkeep is very expensive. French does not have immediate threats and they are prioritizing exports now.

For India, Dassault will have to pay if they couldn't keep 75% in flying conditions. IAF has achieved ~70% availability for their heavier and maintenance-intensive Su-30MKI fleet. This will be easier with enough resources.
 
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A Person

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Just to bring some light on these numbers: in France there are two measures of readiness. The technical readiness (DT, disponibilité technique) is a simple percent value of how many aircraft are ready to fly a combat mission, compared to how many aircraft are in the fleet in total. Since this includes all the aircraft that are cocooned due to having their yearly quota of flight hours met, this value has an effective glass ceiling.

The second value is the operational readiness (DTO, disponibilité technique opérationnelle). This one is how many aircraft are ready to fly a combat mission, compared to how many aircraft are needed to fulfill the highest operational tempo demanded in the air force's contract mission. So it's not relative to the number of aircraft in the fleet, but to the number of aircraft that the military deems necessary to basically withstand WW3 suddenly starting.

Needless to say, DTO is a value that has suffered a lot from three decades of peace dividends and two decades of low-intensity bombing raids. Because the aircraft that are sent abroad to explode some jihadist pickup truck? They're not on the national territory, ready to react to WW3 suddenly starting. The spare parts and maintenance effort is focused on them (they reach availability rates in the high 90%) rather than on those on the national territory. And the second hand sales to Greece and Croatia are gonna widen the gap between aircraft actually in the fleet and aircraft required by the military even more.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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The last I heard, they want to keep their M2000s. The same with Taiwan.
But Qatar has just sold its own.
Ares, la PME française qui rachète les Mirage du Qatar
Ares, the French SME that is buying back the Mirage from Qatar

This aeronautical company, based in south-eastern France, has just concluded the purchase of 12 second-hand Mirage 2000-5s from Qatar, in order to develop the "Red Air" market in Europe. In other words, the training of armed forces by private fleets.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil

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Please look at the above picture

My question is that

If One Rafale and 2 Su 30s are flying in a Triangular formation then
Will SPECTRA of the Rafale in front also help in Reducing the RCS of Sukhois following the Rafale
I don't think so, SPECTRA is fine for self-protection. A good approach for this combination is to have the Rafale far in front in silent mode, and the SU-30 MKI behind with an active Radar watch and a diffusion of the collected data to the Rafale.

The Rafale can then attack the enemy at long range, and then at shorter range.
 
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randomradio

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Please look at the above picture

My question is that

If One Rafale and 2 Su 30s are flying in a Triangular formation then
Will SPECTRA of the Rafale in front also help in Reducing the RCS of Sukhois following the Rafale

With active cancellation? Nope. The formation is going to send a nice gigantic return of some big monster, and even without SPECTRA the Rafale will be able to hide itself there.

The alternative is for the Rafale to jam enemy radars in order to render the MKI invisible, 'cause that's what jammers do. Although I don't know how well AC will work along with jamming.
 
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WHOHE

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Please look at the above picture

My question is that

If One Rafale and 2 Su 30s are flying in a Triangular formation then
Will SPECTRA of the Rafale in front also help in Reducing the RCS of Sukhois following the Rafale
The answer is absolutely not. Why do you ask these two? You actually believe their claims as some "expert" especially pic-oil?

Spectra has always been nothing but hype it is no more advanced than a AN/ALQ-131(v) EW pod.

Now F-35 can not only reduce the RCS of 4th gen fighters but it can completely hide them and themselves.

‘The initial scenario was that our two F-35s would escort a four-ship of F-16s across a notional border and protect them against another eight-ship of F-16s simulating a modern adversary. A relatively inexperienced flight leader was in charge of the F-16s on our side and Lt Col Joost ‘Niki’ Luijsterburg, the Tucson detachment commander, was responsible for the adversaries. Up to this point we had only practised these scenarios in the simulators and while we had a decent game-plan, we were all anxious to see how the F-35 would perform in real life. We figured that the F-35’s stealth would keep us out of harm’s way for most of the fight, but that we also need to protect the friendly F-16s, maximize the lethality of their missiles and get them to the target.

To make this happen, we planned to initially use electronic attack against the adversary F-16s, see if we could avoid having them detect friendly fighters and datalink the location of the hostile aircraft to our F-16s. This way we could use the F-16s on our side to shoot down the initial wave of enemy fighters and keep our own missiles available once the ‘Blue Air’ F-16s had to focus on their target attack. The plan worked flawlessly.
Dutch F-35As OUT of the SHADOWS - Combat Aircraft May 2018 pp6.pdf

EPAWSS being installed on 4th gen fighters also have this capability however it was tested to see if it can hide F-22s and F-35s getting them closer to advanced IADS and it was able.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil

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IAF to start upgrading Rafale fighter fleet from January 2022

NEW DELHI: Having already received around 30 Rafale combat aircraft from France, the Indian Air Force would start upgrading its fleet of French-origin fighters from January 2022, with India specific enhancements.

"A high-level team of Indian Air Force officers is in France to evaluate the performance of the testbed aircraft with tail number RB-008 at the Istres airbase there. The aircraft has been equipped with all the India Specific Enhancements agreed upon between the two sides in the 2016 contract," government sources told ANI here.

Once the enhancements are approved and accepted by the IAF, the upgrade is planned to be started from January next year onwards making the Indian planes more capable," they said. The India specific enhancements would include integration of highly capable missiles, low band jammers and satellite communication systems as per Indian requirements.

India has already received around 30 of these planes and three more of them would be arriving in the country on December 7-8.
As per the contract schedule, sources in the Air Force said kits would be brought to India from France and every month, three to four Indian Rafale would be upgraded to the ISE standards. The last aircraft to arrive in India from France would be the RB-008.

[...]

The upgrade of the aircraft would be carried out at the Ambala Air Force Station which is the first base of the plane in the country.

The Indian Air Force has also started the training of its pilots on the aircraft within the country itself after training its personnel in France.

[...]

India is now planning to go ahead with the case for acquiring 114 multirole fighter aircraft for which a case is to be moved to the defence ministry by the IAF in near futur.
 

AbRaj

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The answer is absolutely not. Why do you ask these two? You actually believe their claims as some "expert" especially pic-oil?

Spectra has always been nothing but hype it is no more advanced than a AN/ALQ-131(v) EW pod.

Now F-35 can not only reduce the RCS of 4th gen fighters but it can completely hide them and themselves.

‘The initial scenario was that our two F-35s would escort a four-ship of F-16s across a notional border and protect them against another eight-ship of F-16s simulating a modern adversary. A relatively inexperienced flight leader was in charge of the F-16s on our side and Lt Col Joost ‘Niki’ Luijsterburg, the Tucson detachment commander, was responsible for the adversaries. Up to this point we had only practised these scenarios in the simulators and while we had a decent game-plan, we were all anxious to see how the F-35 would perform in real life. We figured that the F-35’s stealth would keep us out of harm’s way for most of the fight, but that we also need to protect the friendly F-16s, maximize the lethality of their missiles and get them to the target.

To make this happen, we planned to initially use electronic attack against the adversary F-16s, see if we could avoid having them detect friendly fighters and datalink the location of the hostile aircraft to our F-16s. This way we could use the F-16s on our side to shoot down the initial wave of enemy fighters and keep our own missiles available once the ‘Blue Air’ F-16s had to focus on their target attack. The plan worked flawlessly.
Dutch F-35As OUT of the SHADOWS - Combat Aircraft May 2018 pp6.pdf

EPAWSS being installed on 4th gen fighters also have this capability however it was tested to see if it can hide F-22s and F-35s getting them closer to advanced IADS and it was able.
You were right about the DRFM of rafale aka SPECTRA but then out of your habitual fan boyishness went on further and started bragging about same thing on F35. LoL.

Right now only Active Jamming using massive jammers like those AN/ALQ 249 on new Growlers or Khibny on Su 35 and 57, can hide such large formations by blinding the hostile radars.
 

WHOHE

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Really? How? This is now sounding more like plasma stealth of the Russians.
How about you read my whole reply that talks about the Dutch F-35s and what they did.
You were right about the DRFM of rafale aka SPECTRA but then out of your habitual fan boyishness went on further and started bragging about same thing on F35. LoL.

Right now only Active Jamming using massive jammers like those AN/ALQ 249 on new Growlers or Khibny on Su 35 and 57, can hide such large formations by blinding the hostile radars.
Oy vey. Another one... I guess you stopped reading just before you got to the part in what the Dutch F-35s did? Keep reading sweetheart.

If you think what the F-35 did is the same as a Growler than you don't get it.
 
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AbRaj

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How about you read my whole reply that talks about the Dutch F-35s and what they did.

Oy vey. Another one... I guess you stopped reading just before you got to the part in what the Dutch F-35s did? Keep reading sweetheart.
TBH I didn’t read your post as it’s lengthy.
You should’ve highlighted the relevant lines.

Anyway, just googled about EPAWSS and looks like it is designed to do precisely what he was asking.
Really useful for some serious SEAD/DEAD missions.
 

Optimist

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India wants transfer of technology, to enable manufacturing their own platforms. The US isn't going to do this. So it doesn't suit India. It is a mistake to think that this reflects on the standard of US platforms.
 

lcafanboy

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India wants transfer of technology, to enable manufacturing their own platforms. The US isn't going to do this. So it doesn't suit India. It is a mistake to think that this reflects on the standard of US platforms.
One more point. After buying India doesn't like pestering snooping and advice on how to use and on whom to use/not use the weapons it bought after fully paying for it.....
This is the biggest problem in buying US weapons not the transfer of technology which is just one aspect India considers when buying a new weapon.....