Rafale RB of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

randomradio

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Interestingly, the article supports an Indian production line.

Let's not forget that the MII program also expects some orders for export as well. It should be possible for the Indian line to service some or most of the orders to the UAE and Southeast Asia. It would make most sense for SE Asia because of the China problem. Perhaps it will help rope in Vietnam and Philippines too.
 

Picdelamirand-oil

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Interestingly, the article supports an Indian production line.

Let's not forget that the MII program also expects some orders for export as well. It should be possible for the Indian line to service some or most of the orders to the UAE and Southeast Asia. It would make most sense for SE Asia because of the China problem. Perhaps it will help rope in Vietnam and Philippines too.
What will be the floor price of the Rafale with a production volume of 900 aircraft and a production line in India? :giggle:
 

lcafanboy

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What will be the floor price of the Rafale with a production volume of 900 aircraft and a production line in India? :giggle:
Should be low enough to scrap reconsider any development and induction of ORCA and TEDBF fighter as both offer same capabilities. It will be why invent a wheel when you already have one...

Fact is ORCA and TEDBF fighters will offer capabilities which Rafale offers right now ready to use....😀

Only thing matters is, is Dassault and other ancillary manufacturers like Snecma, sagem ready to shift their production lines in India and believe in mass production of Rafales on the scale of American fighters. If so then IAF requirement alone will surpass French Air Force requirements...😊
 
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A Person

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You've lost all that with Spain.
Did we? They participated in Neuron, they joined FCAS. That shows political interest for French aircraft projects. (Too bad the FCAS is doomed due to Germany being greedy, delusional, and incompetent; I'd be a lot more optimistic about it if it were just France and Spain.) For the Eurofighter, when France left, they thought about leaving along to work on the Rafale instead. In the end they didn't, something I'm sure they now regret.

The opinions of the pilots are nice and all, but in the end in a democracy it's the civilians who decide. Spain doesn't have a traditional bias against French aircraft. But they aren't looking for a new fighter aircraft at the moment.
There are some who are more optimistic than me:
It's not a question of optimism or pessimism; just keeping to what is verifiably factual at the moment when arguing about stuff. A Rafale victory in Switzerland seems the most likely to me, but right now, it's not out yet.
The US have discovered that the Rafale exists, they have not yet discovered that it has an AESA but that will come.
It sounds like a bunch of text blurbs from Wikipedia and press releases fed through a speech synthesizer.
 

randomradio

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Did we? They participated in Neuron, they joined FCAS. That shows political interest for French aircraft projects. (Too bad the FCAS is doomed due to Germany being greedy, delusional, and incompetent; I'd be a lot more optimistic about it if it were just France and Spain.) For the Eurofighter, when France left, they thought about leaving along to work on the Rafale instead. In the end they didn't, something I'm sure they now regret.

The opinions of the pilots are nice and all, but in the end in a democracy it's the civilians who decide. Spain doesn't have a traditional bias against French aircraft. But they aren't looking for a new fighter aircraft at the moment.

Oh, come on, the R&D of the Neuron was far too small and it obviously did not lead to production. It's not enough to mobilise the bureucratic machinery that makes a dent in the foreign policy of the country.

Yeah, they should have stayed with the Rafale, but they didn't. And this is practically when and how the end of the relationship began. India and Russia dealt with the same thing after India abandoned FGFA.

Also, yeah, they aren't looking for anything new. They appear to have decided to replace some of their Hornets with Typhoons for now.
Should be more than 35% for both mass production (the number should go as high as more than 2000 units spread over next 20years with upgrades from FCAS Program) and lower wages in India....

Doubt it's gonna be that big.
 
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lcafanboy

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India alone needs replacement for mirage 2k, mig29k, first batch of su30mki from 2035 to 2040 apart from mmrca2 along with the already short fall of squadron numbers need to be filled and there is a need for Naval fighter for ins Vikrant Vikramaditya and IAC 2. Add Chinese threat India alone needs more than 300 by 2040. If Rafales are upgraded by avionics from FCAS and more powerful engines it will remain relevant till 2070 easily...

Rafales will be affordable for many countries like Vietnam, Brazil, Philippines, Malaysia who won't need and afford 5th or 6th generation extremely expensive fighters and Dassault can earn royalty from it till 2070 and beyond....
 
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jk007

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I suppose a 20% discount on it.

Should be low enough to scrap reconsider any development and induction of ORCA and TEDBF fighter as both offer same capabilities. It will be why invent a wheel when you already have one...

Fact is ORCA and TEDBF fighters will offer capabilities which Rafale offers right now ready to use....😀

Only thing matters is, is Dassault and other ancillary manufacturers like Snecma, sagem ready to shift their production lines in India and believe in mass production of Rafales on the scale of American fighters. If so then IAF requirement alone will surpass French Air Force requirements...😊
India needs ORCA & TEDBF & AMCA. It is important to procreate the R&D culture.
 

lcafanboy

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India needs ORCA & TEDBF & AMCA. It is important to procreate the R&D culture.
Yes we do need ORCA & TEDBF & AMCA but these will come only after 2030 to be realistic but if go for Rafales we will get those numbers and technologies right now. Here only roadblock is Dassault and its mindset to bring down the Rafale's fly away cost and long term maintenance costs down drastically by allowing mass production on the scale of F-16 s by producing all the parts in India and using India as export hub for Rafale for longer periods of time and using French line for NGAF. This will bring in expertise and aeronautical ecosystem for India and all the avionics can be ported to AMCA directly reducing the research and development cost and faster development and deployment of AMCA...

If you have any doubts let me clear. If Snecma produces engines for AMCA, and if French share spectra electronic warfare suite we can have a mature AMCA by 2030 itself...😊
 

A Person

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Indonesia signed a contract for 36 Rafale aircraft. However, it's not effective yet, since first comes the "IDKLO" negotiations (Indonesian acronym for "trade returns, local content, offsets").

And perhaps Bangladesh, too?
They want 16 of a "western MRCA". Looks like they want to diversify their sources, since the last time they went with the MiG-29 and now they specify a western aircraft -- not Russian or Chinese. Will they follow India's footsteps?
 
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randomradio

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Indonesia signed a contract for 36 Rafale aircraft. However, it's not effective yet, since first comes the "IDKLO" negotiations (Indonesian acronym for "trade returns, local content, offsets").

Rather than a contract, that's just an IGA.

And perhaps Bangladesh, too?
They want 16 of a "western MRCA". Looks like they want to diversify their sources, since the last time they went with the MiG-29 and now they specify a western aircraft -- not Russian or Chinese. Will they follow India's footsteps?

It's gonna be an American teen, the F-16V in particular. There have been a lot of military to military contacts between the two over the last few years. After buying Chinese J-7s, purchasing American jets would be a good way to balance out their relations.

Myanmar has been buying new Su-30SMs and JF-17s, so the BAF is willing to match their buildup. There's a pretty expensive modernisation plan going on in BD right now and quite a bit of American hardware is planned, like the Apaches and perhaps even the NASAMS.

And I actually prefer they don't get the Rafale. Any country that is supplied by China should never become a Rafale customer. It's gonna be too enticing for debt-ridden countries to give up western secrets in exchange for debt-forgiveness. So let the Americans deal with that.
 
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Hydra

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Rather than a contract, that's just an IGA.



It's gonna be an American teen, the F-16V in particular. There have been a lot of military to military contacts between the two over the last few years. After buying Chinese J-7s, purchasing American jets would be a good way to balance out their relations.

Myanmar has been buying new Su-30SMs and JF-17s, so the BAF is willing to match their buildup. There's a pretty expensive modernisation plan going on in BD right now and quite a bit of American hardware is planned, like the Apaches and perhaps even the NASAMS.

And I actually prefer they don't get the Rafale. Any country that is supplied by China should never become a Rafale customer. It's gonna be too enticing for debt-ridden countries to give up western secrets in exchange for debt-forgiveness. So let the Americans deal with that.
Hope BD will not turn against India in future.
 

_Anonymous_

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👆I like this member @Ashwin .

May I humbly recommend your due consideration of the said member the next time you decide to elevate members here to the senior member position. His analysis of geo politics reminds me of another esteemed member here @BMD who in my opinion also should be a dead ringer for elevation to senior member.
 
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Hydra

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BD will be our future lieutenant, like the UK is to the US. :p

👆👆👆If you are old enough you must be remembering this incident. I am having clear cut memory of this particular incident where we lost 10+ jawans to BD in an armed clash. I even remembering a picture printed on front pages of many news paper too, in which BD uniformed guys carrying a dead Indian BSF jawan by tying his wrist and ankles to a pole & hanging him down, just like how some farmers carrying dead animals.

And, there was a talk surfaces long back on Pakistan gifting its old sub to Bangladesh Navy, when our navy chief asked about this his reaction was "IN need to patrol bay of Bengal too". Dont ask me to provide link for IN admirals's reaction, i cannot. But i can provid this.👇👇👇

So dont expect BD to be our side kick, any thing can happen. No serious power will be happy to have a strong military in neighborhood, & china too doesnt want this scenario and they will do nasty things to sabotage their only military powerhouse in its neighborhood, India. They can do to BD what they have done with Srilanka by giving development aid.

After all we all know forefathers of present day BD population choose not stick with indian federal republic in 1947. I want BD to choose any fighter other than Rafale any day, anything can happen between us in future after they improved their economy & is growing with tremendous speed, may be we will continue existing friendship or it may turn upside down.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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👆👆👆If you are old enough you must be remembering this incident. I am having clear cut memory of this particular incident where we lost 10+ jawans to BD in an armed clash. I even remembering a picture printed on front pages of many news paper too, in which BD uniformed guys carrying a dead Indian BSF jawan by tying his wrist and ankles to a pole & hanging him down, just like how some farmers carrying dead animals.

And, there was a talk surfaces long back on Pakistan gifting its old sub to Bangladesh Navy, when our navy chief asked about this his reaction was "IN need to patrol bay of Bengal too". Dont ask me to provide link for IN admirals's reaction, i cannot. But i can provid this.👇👇👇

So dont expect BD to be our side kick, any thing can happen. No serious power will be happy to have a strong military in neighborhood, & china too doesnt want this scenario and they will do nasty things to sabotage their only military powerhouse in its neighborhood, India. They can do to BD what they have done with Srilanka by giving development aid.

After all we all know forefathers of present day BD population choose not stick with indian federal republic in 1947. I want BD to choose any fighter other than Rafale any day, anything can happen between us in future after they improved their economy & is growing with tremendous speed, may be we will continue existing friendship or it may turn upside down.

This happened too.

And this.