Rafale M of Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

Picdelamirand-oil said:
I have the impression that the only disadvantage of doing “governments to governments” is that it's never enough to set up an assembly line in India (you need at least 100), but with the 26 we're setting up a fuselage production line, so maybe we'll go step by step with each batch they order, in which case the chances of the 40 have increased a lot.
  • 26 Marine => you start partial production.
  • +40 IAF (without tender) => you complete the local workload.
  • + maybe 74 remaining (to reach 114) later in two steps => you would then have enough to economically justify a full FAL.
As a result, the chances of going G2G fast have increased considerably: by gradually installing industrial capacity, India avoids wasting time and does not abandon its objective of industrial sovereignty. The manufacture of fuselages for the 26 Marines paves the way, making the G2G contract for 40 IAF more attractive and more likely than before.
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The ToT for these stopgap deals seems to be left for the OEMs to decide, whereas MRFA will see some negotiations.

These stopgap deals are independent from MRFA. The govt and IAF need MRFA for more than just a fighter jet, there are other political implications involved.

Maybe a potential war with Pakistan could kill MRFA in favor of more Rafales, or we could buy more Rafales and launch MRFA simultaneously to make up for some heavy losses expected.

So it's possible that the elimination of 100-150 jets over the next 2 months over Pakistan could see us buying Rafale in numbers, and MRFA will be launched for a non-Rafale jet, or something else will replace MRFA but with similar impact. It's become quite unpredictable now.
 
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randomradio said:
The ToT for these stopgap deals seems to be left for the OEMs to decide, whereas MRFA will see some negotiations.

These stopgap deals are independent from MRFA. The govt and IAF need MRFA for more than just a fighter jet, there are other political implications involved.

Maybe a potential war with Pakistan could kill MRFA in favor of more Rafales, or we could buy more Rafales and launch MRFA simultaneously to make up for some heavy losses expected.

So it's possible that the elimination of 100-150 jets over the next 2 months over Pakistan could see us buying Rafale in numbers, and MRFA will be launched for a non-Rafale jet, or something else will replace MRFA but with similar impact. It's become quite unpredictable now.
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MRFA wat also see Rafale emerge as a winner. Dassault already has some industrial feet to be ready before any other.
And with F5 std on the horizon, it always has a brillant futur.
 
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Bon Plan said:
Probably.
But the quality was found more attractive than price because it wins in IAF and in IN. And probably twice in the IAF case.
SH18 was supposed to be a little bit cheaper.
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We know the IAF loves its M-2000s too much to skimp on them. There was a competing upgrade offer from the Isrealis (IAI) which worked out cheaper but they still chose the OEM.

Though expensive, I'd say the upgrade paid for itself over Balakot (low altitude terrain hugging flight thanks to RDY-3 TF mode).

And as I've mentioned in another thread, the IN would've preferred to buy the Rafale-M instead of MiG-29K had Russia not objected. You should have offered us the Clemenceau or one of your older carriers vs Russia's Gorshkov.
 
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randomradio said:
I am talking about if war losses forces us to go for 2 types of jets at the same time in order to maximise supplier sources and increase political clout.
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A new production line in India and a new production line in France + an increase of Merignac production line... we are producing 65 Airbus by month because they are needed. The same for Rafale, if they are needed we can produce them.
 
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Speedster1 said:
We know the IAF loves its M-2000s too much to skimp on them. There was a competing upgrade offer from the Isrealis (IAI) which worked out cheaper but they still chose the OEM.
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Our procurement rules state OEM is the first point of contact. We look at others when OEM cannot meet expectations.

For MKI, HAL is the OEM.

Speedster1 said:
And as I've mentioned in another thread, the IN would've preferred to buy the Rafale-M instead of MiG-29K had Russia not objected. You should have offered us the Clemenceau or one of your older carriers vs Russia's Gorshkov.
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That was unrealistic. France would have had to provide significant details about the Rafale to Russia to qualify the carrier. The only choice was Mig-29K.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
A new production line in India and a new production line in France + an increase of Merignac production line... we are producing 65 Airbus by month because they are needed. The same for Rafale, if they are needed we can produce them.
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The issue is beyond a certain number buying more jets of the same type is pointless.

If we ignore the current lot of Mk1s and Rafales (as they will be replaced by Mk1A/Mk2 and Rafales anyway), with the rest being irrelevant ('cause they are set to be replaced), any losses among MKIs will have to be closed up with a new jet. If we lose 70-100 MKIs, we can induct 6-7 squadrons of a new jet, even after counting LCA, Rafale, and AMCA, all at 200+.
 
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randomradio said:
The issue is beyond a certain number buying more jets of the same type is pointless.

If we ignore the current lot of Mk1s and Rafales (as they will be replaced by Mk1A/Mk2 and Rafales anyway), with the rest being irrelevant ('cause they are set to be replaced), any losses among MKIs will have to be closed up with a new jet. If we lose 70-100 MKIs, we can induct 6-7 squadrons of a new jet, even after counting LCA, Rafale, and AMCA, all at 200+.
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The Rafale has replaced 7 different types of aircraft in France, so I'm sure it can replace MKIs too.
 
randomradio said:
That was unrealistic. France would have had to provide significant details about the Rafale to Russia to qualify the carrier. The only choice was Mig-29K
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No. If France had offered one of their older carriers (like the one they sold to Brazil), we could've ditched MiG and gone for the Rafale-M back in 2010. But then again, Gorshkov and it's airwing were all tied to the Akula so we had absolutely no wiggle room anyway.
 
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