Probably, for the first time, a navy official has confirmed the existence of an indigenously designed SSK program called Project 76.
Project-76 Indigenous Diesel-electric Submarine (SSK) Program
- Thread starter Ashwin
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Probably, for the first time, a navy official has confirmed the existence of an indigenously designed SSK program called Project 76.
So 12 more in plan means how long timeline do you think? lead time of 3-5 years?
@Rajput Lion @Ashwin @Fatalis sir?
@Rajput Lion @Ashwin @Fatalis sir?
Remaining is 3-6 not 12.
6+3 P75 + 6 P75I + 3-6 SSN + 3-6 P76 = 24
It will take a lot of time. Probably, all will be in service by the end of the next decade.
Not 12 most likely 6-9 as we are already getting 3 more P75.
IMO the first boat will be in water by the time last P-75I enters sea trials so my guess is around 2034ish.
12 Subs, Pumpjet for stealth & preliminary design done?
Yeah this is still with the WDB still per MDL, suggesting not fully mature by that time (it prob has , just to tie up some loose ends maybe). Hopefully a flurry of proposals in next 1-2 years time.
I've mentioned it a few years ago. P-76 will start as soon as P-75I is signed.
However it's already been delayed by 2 years. P-76 was supposed to have started this year, at best the next year, with the completion of P-75I in 2023. That's probably why IN is sitting with the PDP blueprint.
If IN pushes for the P-76 before P-75I is finalized to some extent, like at least contract negotiations, then the govt will take this chance to cancel it in favor of P-76. That will put the brakes on P-76 too 'cause the ToT is supposed to come with some new production techniques.
Was the AIP being retrofitted on scorpenes/additional scorpenes a plan from the start ? esp an indigenous aip yet to be tested? I thought they wanted a foreign aip fitted sub first for benchmarking , both for the forces and DRDO.
I an mot sure but possibly the Naval commander conference that was ongoing, 3 days event.
DRDO takes up preliminary study on development of indigenous conventional submarine
After the year-long study, DRDO would make the case for a project sanction.
As the procurement of new submarines under P-75I goes on, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has taken up a preliminary study on the design and development of an indigenous conventional submarine under Project-76.“DRDO got a go ahead from defence ministry to carry out a preliminary study to determine the project contours. It is expected to take upto a year after which a formal case will be put up to the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) for project sanction,” a defence source in the know said. This will be a continuation of the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) project, to build a conventional submarine, under which the Arihant series of nuclear ballistic missile submarines (SSBN) are being built and another project for building nuclear-powered submarines (SSN) is currently underway, the source stated.
Under P-76, there will be substantial indigenous content, including weapons, missiles, combat management system, sonars, communications, Electronic Warfare suite, mast and periscope, sources said.
The Navy has a 30-year submarine building programme and after the P-75I, it intends to design and build conventional submarines indigenously, senior officials had stated on several occasions.
Air Independent Propulsion
An Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) module designed and developed by DRDO is now awaiting fitment on the Scorpene class submarines. The first Scorpene-class submarine Kalvari is expected to go for refit in 2025 when the fitment process would begin and is expected to take 2-3 years, 2027 or 2028, sources said. This is being done in collaboration with Naval Group, the original manufacturer of Scorpenes.An AIP module acts as a force multiplier as it enables conventional submarines to remain submerged for longer duration thereby increasing their endurance and reducing chances of detection.
The AIP is currently being continuously run on shore, and as there is no submarine, a simulated hull has been created to have near-sea conditions and also run the same cycles, the source stated. An AIP module is inside a submarine so there is no corrosion issue and the only aspect to be checked in a submarine is the reliability of the AIP module.
The DRDO-developed AIP module is phosphoric acid based which is widely available, officials noted. An AIP module has a stack of fuel cells generating hydrogen. The power output of each fuel cell in the DRDO AIP is 13.5 kW. It is being so asked up to 15.5 kW and will eventually be scaled up to 20 kW which will meet future submarine requirements like the P-76, sources said.
The final configuration of the AIP is a stack of 24 fuel cells and the overall output will be higher than the requirement, to build in redundancy and optimise performance, another source explained.
why would they derive it from a sub scale SSBN if its to be conventional diesel electric ?
Probably under the same project as it is just a study. Less bureaucratic.
only the manufacturer (MDL) gets the ToT, which is limited to the construction side. Even testing and certification have to be done under NG's supervision.
the additional scorpene order is similar, Indigenous content (baring AIP system) will go up due to IDDM systems, not just license manufacturing.
This thread is dedicated to the indigenous SSK class P76.
With the deal to buy six new diesel-electric submarines entering the contract negotiation phase, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is gearing up to bring a proposal to design and develop an indigenous conventional submarine to the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) for approval.
The procurement deal comes under Project-75I, while the indigenous development proposal comes under Project-76.
“The inter-ministerial consultation is going on and it should be ready for CCS approval in the next two months,” said an official who did not wish to be named. “Once approved, the design phase is expected to take two to three years, and another five years for construction. So it is expected to take around eight years to have the first submarine, once the project is sanctioned,” the source said.
The indigenous submarine is expected to displace around 3,000 tonnes and will be capable of launching land attack cruise missiles (LACMs), which are still under development, from its torpedo tubes. A new LACM being developed by DRDO fits this criteria, sources stated.
Over 90% indigenous content
As reported by The Hindu last June, DRDO carried out a preliminary study to determine the contours of P-76, after a go-ahead from the Defence Ministry. P-76 will be a continuation of the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) project, under which the Arihant series of nuclear ballistic missile submarines (SSBN) are being built, with another project underway to build nuclear-powered attack submarines (SSN).
The project is aiming for 90% to 95% indigenous content, with major systems being sourced domestically including the weapons, missiles, combat management system, sonars, communications, electronic warfare suite, mast, and periscope. Only some chips, electronics, and tubes will have to be imported, sources said, adding that the indigenous SSBNs also have over 90% indigenous content.
Parallel development
Meanwhile, the P-75I tender for six conventional submarines is set to begin contract negotiations after long delays, with the bid by Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited (MDL) in partnership with Germany’s ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) of Germany have cleared the technical evaluation. The deal is estimated to be worth around ₹70,000 crore, way above the earlier benchmark of ₹43,000 crore. The final contract is expected to take at least a couple of years given the tough negotiations, and the first submarine will be delivered seven years later. This means that the P-75I and P-76 programmes will progress almost in parallel, if the development of the latter goes as per plan.
As reported earlier, the indigenous SSN programme is also in the design phase, which is expected to take four to five years, with another five years estimated for the construction and validation of the first submarine. From the proof of concept to the final construction plan, there are four stages of development, another source said.
Long timeframes
In December, Navy Chief Adm Tripathi said that a realistic timeframe would probably see the first SSN inducted in 2036-37, followed by the second one a couple of years later. Last October, the CCS approved the indigenous construction of two SSNs estimated to cost around ₹35,000 crore, while India’s fourth SSBN was launched into the water at the Ship Building Centre in Visakhapatnam.
The SSNs are a critical requirement for the Navy to keep a watch over the Indo-Pacific region as they provide unlimited endurance to perform a variety of tasks; their endurance is only limited by that of the crew.
The Indian Navy currently has 17 conventional submarines in service, but the majority of them are ageing platforms. This includes seven Russian Kilo class submarines, four German HDW submarines, and six French Scorpene submarines. A contract for three additional Scorpene-class submarines is set to be signed very soon, with the first of the them likely to be delivered in 2030.
www.thehindu.com
DRDO indigenous submarine proposal to go for CCS approval in couple of months; eight years for first sub
With the deal to buy six new diesel-electric submarines entering the contract negotiation phase, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is gearing up to bring a proposal to design and develop an indigenous conventional submarine to the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) for approval.
The procurement deal comes under Project-75I, while the indigenous development proposal comes under Project-76.
“The inter-ministerial consultation is going on and it should be ready for CCS approval in the next two months,” said an official who did not wish to be named. “Once approved, the design phase is expected to take two to three years, and another five years for construction. So it is expected to take around eight years to have the first submarine, once the project is sanctioned,” the source said.
The indigenous submarine is expected to displace around 3,000 tonnes and will be capable of launching land attack cruise missiles (LACMs), which are still under development, from its torpedo tubes. A new LACM being developed by DRDO fits this criteria, sources stated.
Over 90% indigenous content
As reported by The Hindu last June, DRDO carried out a preliminary study to determine the contours of P-76, after a go-ahead from the Defence Ministry. P-76 will be a continuation of the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) project, under which the Arihant series of nuclear ballistic missile submarines (SSBN) are being built, with another project underway to build nuclear-powered attack submarines (SSN).
The project is aiming for 90% to 95% indigenous content, with major systems being sourced domestically including the weapons, missiles, combat management system, sonars, communications, electronic warfare suite, mast, and periscope. Only some chips, electronics, and tubes will have to be imported, sources said, adding that the indigenous SSBNs also have over 90% indigenous content.
Parallel development
Meanwhile, the P-75I tender for six conventional submarines is set to begin contract negotiations after long delays, with the bid by Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited (MDL) in partnership with Germany’s ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) of Germany have cleared the technical evaluation. The deal is estimated to be worth around ₹70,000 crore, way above the earlier benchmark of ₹43,000 crore. The final contract is expected to take at least a couple of years given the tough negotiations, and the first submarine will be delivered seven years later. This means that the P-75I and P-76 programmes will progress almost in parallel, if the development of the latter goes as per plan.
As reported earlier, the indigenous SSN programme is also in the design phase, which is expected to take four to five years, with another five years estimated for the construction and validation of the first submarine. From the proof of concept to the final construction plan, there are four stages of development, another source said.
Long timeframes
In December, Navy Chief Adm Tripathi said that a realistic timeframe would probably see the first SSN inducted in 2036-37, followed by the second one a couple of years later. Last October, the CCS approved the indigenous construction of two SSNs estimated to cost around ₹35,000 crore, while India’s fourth SSBN was launched into the water at the Ship Building Centre in Visakhapatnam.
The SSNs are a critical requirement for the Navy to keep a watch over the Indo-Pacific region as they provide unlimited endurance to perform a variety of tasks; their endurance is only limited by that of the crew.
The Indian Navy currently has 17 conventional submarines in service, but the majority of them are ageing platforms. This includes seven Russian Kilo class submarines, four German HDW submarines, and six French Scorpene submarines. A contract for three additional Scorpene-class submarines is set to be signed very soon, with the first of the them likely to be delivered in 2030.
DRDO indigenous submarine proposal to go for CCS approval in couple of months; eight years for first sub
DRDO prepares to propose indigenous submarine design to CCS as part of Project-76, alongside Project-75I procurement deal.