Project 75 India Diesel-electric Submarine Programs (SSK) : Updates and Discussions

[Amarante]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1840741283587064035

i was aware of the Korean issues with re-exporting Korean submarines due to the German tech built in, but i was not aware of the noise issues.

Thanks for posting.

Translating the Korean artcle dated 29.09:

ICC: "Son Won-il-class noise problem is due to defective German parts"​

ICC '손원일함 소음 문제, 獨 부품 불량 탓 맞다'

/deepl:
In an arbitration decision between the government and German company ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS), which dealt with the issue of defective parts of the Son Won-il class submarine, a key submarine force of our military, the government ultimately won and received compensation. There are currently nine Son Won-il class submarines in operation, and it is believed that the government can now take the lead in any disputes that may arise in the future. By concluding that the failure of the last submarine built in a Korean shipyard to function properly was ultimately due to foreign parts, some predict that the company could find itself in an advantageous position in the global submarine industry, worth tens of billions of won in the future.



According to the legal community and defense industry on the 29th, TKMS, which supplied the propulsion motor for the first Son Won-il class ship (Son Won-il), filed a lawsuit to cancel the international arbitration award due to serious procedural violations and unfairness in the arbitration process. The international arbitration court dismissed the lawsuit this month, stating that “there is no basis for viewing the arbitration process as problematic or unfair.” Accordingly, the Defense Acquisition Program Administration plans to collect the debt by issuing a payment notice for the repair cost of approximately 13.68 billion won by next month at the latest. Since the Jangbogo-II (KSS-II) project began in 2000, our military has been operating nine 214-class (1,800-ton) submarines. HD Hyundai Heavy Industries, which built the first ship, delivered it to the Navy in December 2007, but around 2011, the submarine began making unusual noises, causing major disruptions in operations. Submarines must minimize noise as much as possible due to the nature of their operations, but they were practically rendered useless. At the time, there was controversy over whether it was a problem with the parts, whether the crew operated it incorrectly, or whether it was a problem with the final assembly company, HD Hyundai Heavy Industries.



Accordingly, an international dispute lawsuit was initiated between TKMS of Germany, which finally supplied the propulsion motor, and the Agency for Defense Development. It was agreed that any issues arising from the initial contract would be resolved under the International Chamber of Commerce (ICC) arbitration rules. In September 2021, the International Arbitration Tribunal acknowledged that there were some problems with TKMS parts and ordered the government to pay 13.68 billion won and interest. However, TKMS filed a lawsuit to cancel the arbitration award, claiming that there were procedural violations and unfair elements in the arbitration, and it was recently dismissed as “unfounded.”



It is known that all 9 Class 214 submarines currently in operation have TKMS propulsion motors. With the government’s final victory, it is expected that the government will be in a favorable position if the same problem occurs in Class 214 submarines in the future. A lawyer specializing in arbitration said, “It is very significant that TKMS finally acknowledged that there was a defect in the product it delivered.”



Separately from the noise issue with the Son Won-il, it is known that there was a problem with German parts for the 214-class submarine in the past. According to the ‘214-class submarine parts defect case’ submitted by the Navy to Shin Won-sik, then a member of the National Assembly, in 2022, all nine vessels were found to have defects in the inverter module (power conversion device). This device is a key component of the propulsion motor that rotates the submarine propeller. Currently, a maintenance contract has been signed with the original manufacturer, Siemens of Germany, and maintenance has been completed for four vessels and maintenance is in progress for five vessels.



Some say that the final result, which is not a problem for our military operation or domestic final assembly companies, could have a positive impact on the global submarine business worth tens of trillions of won in the future. Recently, the Canadian government sent a request for information disclosure (RFI) for the submarine construction business to our shipyards, including HD Hyundai Heavy Industries and Hanwha Ocean, as well as Japanese and European companies. The Canadian government plans to order up to 12 3,000-ton diesel submarines. This project is known to be a huge project costing 70 trillion won.



There are also voices saying that we should use this opportunity to strengthen the domestic production of ship parts. Moon Geun-sik, a special professor at Hanyang University, said, “We should increase the R&D budget for the domestic production of ship parts to eliminate dependence on overseas technology for key parts.” /deepl

 

[randomradio]

Spain has yet to launch the 2nd submarine, and it's new projected commisioning date is somewhere in 2026.

The 3rd submarine with AIP isn't anywhere near in being launched it seems.

I was going by USNI. I don't know what the status is today.

https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2024/january/s-80-plus-class-growing-potential-spains-submarine-program

Second in the class, the Narciso Monturiol, is now planned for delivery in 2024, while the Cosme Garcia is expected in 2026.

If the second sub is delayed, it may not have much to do with the AIP itself.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

I was going by USNI. I don't know what the status is today.

https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2024/january/s-80-plus-class-growing-potential-spains-submarine-program

Second in the class, the Narciso Monturiol, is now planned for delivery in 2024, while the Cosme Garcia is expected in 2026.

If the second sub is delayed, it may not have much to do with the AIP itself.

The delays are significant.

Problemas para la Armada: la entrega del submarino S-82 se retrasa hasta 2026 y el S-83 y S-84 no llegarán hasta 2028 y 2029

Los retrasos en la producción de estos sumergibles se deben a una combinación de problemas técnicos y la falta de personal experimentado en Navantia

www.larazon.es

I am not saying AIP might have problems, just that because the 2nd sub is delayed, the 3rd sub will also be delayed, therefore actual testing of AIP on an operational submarine will be further delayed.

 

[Bon Plan]

latribune.fr_01.10.24 (paywall)
Sous-marins : Pourquoi Naval Group a remporté la Ligue des champions aux Pays-Bas

Submarines: Why Naval Group won the Champions League in the Netherlands​

[deepl] On Monday, the Netherlands made official the sale of four latest-generation submarines developed by Naval Group as part of the renewal of the Dutch fleet. Innovation has been a decisive factor in the success of the French naval group.

It was a Champions League final not to be lost; Naval Group won it despite the headwinds. Thanks to its decisive new commercial weapon, the Barracuda expeditionary submarine, the French naval group prevailed in the Netherlands against its two most formidable rivals at the time - the Swedish-Dutch duo Kockums/Damen and above all the German ThyssenKrupps Marine Systems (TKMS) - while awaiting the emergence of more financially aggressive South Korean rivals. In this respect, the campaign in Poland, which wants to buy three submarines, is likely to be very instructive with this new South Korean competition (Hanwha and Hyundaï).

For the time being, Naval Group is once again popping the champagne in the Netherlands, having already recently brought down its European rivals in India and Indonesia. Despite a change of government and an appeal by TKMS, the Netherlands has not changed course. The new government has realised that they are getting "state-of-the-art submarines" from Naval Group. "This will enable us to serve Dutch, NATO and European security interests to the full," said State Secretary for Defence Gijs Tuinman on Monday. Naval Group is currently maintaining a strong commercial momentum in the submarine sector. And why is that? The Barracuda submarine is a vessel where the level of innovation has made Naval Group more attractive than its competitors.

The innovation card​

In the Netherlands, the innovation card played by Naval Group has been decisive. Particularly when it comes to batteries. The naval group has worked with Saft, a subsidiary of TotalEnergie, to develop a new generation of ultra-secure lithium-ion batteries for submarines. These batteries can be used for missions lasting more than 70 days. The Barracuda submarine emerges approximately every ten days to recharge its diesels very quickly. All in all, it spends more than 90% of its mission underwater. Ideal for navies that want to focus on ocean missions like the Dutch. To carry out such missions, you need submarines that can go very far and stay submerged for a long time. This is not the case for navies with so-called coastal submarines equipped with AIP (Air Independent Propulsion), and therefore limited to coastal protection missions.

Compared to the world leader TKMS, Naval Group seems to have taken "several years ahead" in lithium-ion batteries, according to La Tribune. "Because the Germans had the technology of the moment (the AIP, editor's note) and were the market leader, they missed out on a step of innovation", we analyse. On the other hand, Naval Group is lagging behind the Japanese, who have already equipped their submarines with lithium-ion batteries. The South Koreans are also working on this technology. Naval Group therefore has a head start with the development of the Barracuda. It will have to meet the challenge of delivering the submarines.

More weapons to carry​

Naval Group's Barracuda is much larger than the Scorpene (nearly 3,000 tonnes when submerged, compared with 2,000 tonnes). This means it can carry more weapons (missiles and torpedoes), including cruise and anti-ship missiles. This submarine can carry around thirty munitions fired from six tubes. Naval Group has also played the innovation card in this area, particularly with regard to tube systems. The Netherlands has asked us to fire American weapons, in particular the famous Tomahawks. The Group has worked on new technologies to adapt to this requirement. /end

Next bid to win to definitively erase Australian lost bid : Canada....

But we already can thanks Australia for the Dutch bid, as they financed the R&D work well done for Orka.... .

Dutch will have their subs before Australia see the first fin of a SSN.....

 

[Bon Plan]

https://****/indian-navy-set-to-choose-german-submarine-for-local-manufacturing/#more-353055

Not a surprise.
The spanish sub is failed and come from a non mature sub manufacturer.

 

[Amarante]

Next bid to win to definitively erase Australian lost bid : Canada....

But we already can thanks Australia for the Dutch bid, as they financed the R&D work well done for Orka.... .

Dutch will have their subs before Australia see the first fin of a SSN.....

the Caribouz???!!!
don’t ever ever ever talk 2 me about the caribouz:

[aukus thread edit] It reminds me of a very goood movie, in which an official angle says in a confidential tone: "this is the Canadian delegation: you can recognize them by their surprised expression at having received an invitation to participate in the summit".
huhu.
(sorry for the Caribous)

On this subject, do you know the story of the sale of the 4 old rotten English Upholder class subs (1) to the Maple Leafs?
In the late 80s, the French had been chosen to provide SSNs to the Canadian Navy, and then the anglos made us "a Caribou". (2)

Here is [FRENCH SSNs SOLD TO CANADA? [A COLLECTIVE DREAM THAT WAS CLOSE TO SUCCESS]:
In May 1989, the French head of the General Delegation for Armament was in Ottawa, invited by his Canadian counterpart to sign the intergovernmental agreement launching the program. When suddenly:

"the [Canadian] Minister of Finance made a flash presentation on television at the beginning of the 8 p.m. news to announce the cancellation of the Nuclear Attack Submarine Acquisition Program by the Canadian authorities.

We would later learn that this decision, taken in the greatest secrecy between the Prime Minister, Brian Mulroney and the Minister of Finance, who had not informed the Minister of Defense, Perrin Beatty, had been dictated by the Americans. Our English competitors having learned that the Canadians were going to announce the choice of the French submarine, in preference to theirs, had denounced the program to the Americans so that the latter would sink it... etc."

_______
(1) 4 submarines that will spend most of their career in the Canadian Navy docked, due to chronic unavailability.

(2) 30 years later, the same ones will make us « a Kangaroo ». We are really too stupid.

 

[Bon Plan]

the Caribouz???!!!
don’t ever ever ever talk 2 me about the caribouz:

Even if we loose, we will make such an offer that the winner will loose money

 

[Ashwin]

Germany, Spain await key decision as Navy seeks proven tech for submarines to stay underwater longer​

New Delhi: The Navy’s insistence on a proven Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system for its submarine acquisition programme—Project 75 India, or P-75(I)—has become the focal point for the two frontrunners, Germany and Spain, ThePrint has learnt.

German submarine maker ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS)—which is in talks with an American private equity firm for selling its submarine arm with a German state-run bank enjoying minority blocking rights—has tied up with India’s state-run Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Ltd (MDL) to bid for the project.

On the other hand, Spanish submarine manufacturer Navantia has partnered with Indian private company Larsen & Toubro (L&T).
Both the German and Spanish governments have now stepped in to push for their companies as the Navy is in the final stages of finalising the AIP system’s field evaluation trials (FET).

The main point of contention is the AIP. Under P-75(I), the Navy will procure six new conventional diesel-electric submarines with AIP technology that allows the vessels to operate underwater for longer periods instead of surfacing every two or three days to recharge their batteries.

However, this is where the project—first envisaged in 1998 and cleared as part of a 30-year submarine-building plan that ends in 2030—gets into tricky waters.

AIP evaluations​

Sources in the defence establishment told ThePrint that neither company, during the FET, was able to present a proven AIP of the size and capacity the Navy had mentioned in its request for proposal (RFP) documents.

While Navantia’s AIP parameters come closest to the Navy’s requirements, its first submarine with the technology will only be out in 2026, a fact the Indian authorities knew from the beginning.

Navantia showcased its AIP using a mix of land and onboard systems for the FET, but it is up to the Navy to decide if it considers this proven, even though the system has undergone over 50,000 hours of testing and has been selected by the Spanish Navy.

The AIP showcased by TKMS was smaller than the Navy wanted. This is because the AIP is fitted on board the Type 214 submarines, which are smaller than the ones required by the Navy and hence need a smaller pack of the AIP system.

Sources said this means TKMS will have to develop a bigger AIP system. The fuel cell batteries on board the German submarines are manufactured by a different firm and TKMS has offered its own for the Indian contract, which means the battery performance will have to be tested again, sources said.


“Both the companies don’t meet the complete requirements as sought by the Indian Navy in the RFP but both are good and can deliver. The Spanish would be a faster one since they already have the larger S-80 class and were inducted into the Spanish Navy and will undergo minor design tweaks. TKMS will have to design the submarine completely,” a source said.

Sources said the Navy had insisted on proven AIP technology because it feared the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) would say it could offer the systems it was developing indigenously, which would delay the programme further.

India is building six Scorpene-class submarines, with the fifth and sixth to have an indigenous AIP system, but both have missed their deadlines.

The plan was then tweaked for the first Scorpene-class submarine coming into refit next year to be integrated with an AIP system. However, it is not certain because trials are still on, sources said.

Navantia uses the latest-generation Bio Ethanol Stealth Technology for its AIP with bioethanol as a fuel, making it both environmentally friendly and easy to refuel as bioethanol is easily available across the world.


Bioethanol’s availability makes it easy to refuel an AIP plant at any port without needing specialised hydrogen refuelling systems, unlike previous generation AIP plants offered by TKMS, which require handling of pure hydrogen.

Navantia’s AIP plant is also relatively safer as hydrogen is produced on demand and not stored on board, unlike the other technology where hydrogen is stored and carried in the form of metal hydrides.

Navantia’s AIP plant has been cleared by the Spanish Navy for installation on board its third S-80 class submarine, thereby demonstrating the technological readiness of the system.

Price discovery could be key​

While both TKMS and Navantia have bid for the project, the Germans will have to design a completely new submarine for the Navy, whereas the Spanish are offering the latest S-80 class of submarines, inducted into their Navy in 2023.


The S-80 class is among the latest conventional submarines in the world. With a displacement of close to 3,000 tonnes and a hull diameter of 7.2 metres, it is almost identical to the Indian Navy’s specifications, it is learnt.

Given the size and space, the submarine packs a staggering level of automation, enabling the entire submarine to be operated by a significantly smaller crew strength than smaller submarines.

Sources in the Indian defence establishment admitted that the S-80 class would require minimal redesign for the programme, unlike the other platforms in the fray, as its design and specifications were closest to P75(I) requirements.

Sources said the FET was undertaken after the bids by the German and Spanish companies were technically cleared by the Navy.

It is learnt that the Spanish submarine maker argued with the Navy and the Indian defence ministry that there should be a price discovery, meaning that the bids of both firms should be opened up rather than just going by the FET.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

“Both the companies don’t meet the complete requirements as sought by the Indian Navy in the RFP but both are good and can deliver. The Spanish would be a faster one since they already have the larger S-80 class and were inducted into the Spanish Navy and will undergo minor design tweaks. TKMS will have to design the submarine completely,” a source said.

Best way forward is Naval Group's Barracuda with DRDO AIP.

We will have DRDO AIP fitted on Kalvari by 2026.

 

[_Anonymous_]

If I didn't know better I'd say Snehesh Alex Philip seems to be batting for the Spanish. It's one thing to have a tested AIP but what about the performance of the submarine itself that too a product of an extremely troubled program which has been inducted after plenty of delays & was only possible due to outside consultancy to set the program right. There's not a word of it there.

Are we actually weighing Navantia's experience & expertise against that of TKMS wherein the S-80 class having been recently commissioned is yet to prove itself & its performance can only be evaluated over a period of time to gauge its longevity & maintainability ?

Besides Philipchetta conveniently neglects to mention that the AIP in the Spanish submarine hasn't been developed in house by Navantia but by another Spanish firm Abengoa which has since gone bankrupt due to financial irregularities among other issues apart from utlizing US made components in it which also finds it's way in other vital parts of the S-80 .

It's either this or a very subtle Psy Ops by IN & MoD to unsettle ze Germans who'd probably approach the IN for clarifications only to be told that what they thought is a done deal was their perception but there are genuine problems with their design in order to force more concessions from TKMS much like those multiple rounds of negotiations MoD / IN had with Dassault for purchase of those 26 nos Rafale M .

Those silent farts are almost always the most deadly ones . @Picdelamirand-oil

 

[Ashwin]

Best way forward is Naval Group's Barracuda with DRDO AIP.

We will have DRDO AIP fitted on Kalvari by 2026.

They are not even in the race.

S80 + Indian AIP, matured design and the added benefit of new private shipyard making SSKs.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

They are not even in the race.

S80 + Indian AIP, matured design and the added benefit of new private shipyard making SSKs.

Barracuda is winning, S80 is trying not to sink. The defence minister of Spain visited Navantia and was disappointed by the progress and Navantia had no answers.

 

[Ashwin]

Barracuda is winning, S80 is trying not to sink. The defence minister of Spain visited Navantia and was disappointed by the progress and Navantia had no answers.

Barracuda winning what?

Let them be disappointed, what does it have to do with if we are using our AIP.

 

[Parthu]

Germany, Spain await key decision as Navy seeks proven tech for submarines to stay underwater longer​

New Delhi: The Navy’s insistence on a proven Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system for its submarine acquisition programme—Project 75 India, or P-75(I)—has become the focal point for the two frontrunners, Germany and Spain, ThePrint has learnt.

German submarine maker ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS)—which is in talks with an American private equity firm for selling its submarine arm with a German state-run bank enjoying minority blocking rights—has tied up with India’s state-run Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Ltd (MDL) to bid for the project.

On the other hand, Spanish submarine manufacturer Navantia has partnered with Indian private company Larsen & Toubro (L&T).
Both the German and Spanish governments have now stepped in to push for their companies as the Navy is in the final stages of finalising the AIP system’s field evaluation trials (FET).

The main point of contention is the AIP. Under P-75(I), the Navy will procure six new conventional diesel-electric submarines with AIP technology that allows the vessels to operate underwater for longer periods instead of surfacing every two or three days to recharge their batteries.

However, this is where the project—first envisaged in 1998 and cleared as part of a 30-year submarine-building plan that ends in 2030—gets into tricky waters.

AIP evaluations​

Sources in the defence establishment told ThePrint that neither company, during the FET, was able to present a proven AIP of the size and capacity the Navy had mentioned in its request for proposal (RFP) documents.

While Navantia’s AIP parameters come closest to the Navy’s requirements, its first submarine with the technology will only be out in 2026, a fact the Indian authorities knew from the beginning.

Navantia showcased its AIP using a mix of land and onboard systems for the FET, but it is up to the Navy to decide if it considers this proven, even though the system has undergone over 50,000 hours of testing and has been selected by the Spanish Navy.

The AIP showcased by TKMS was smaller than the Navy wanted. This is because the AIP is fitted on board the Type 214 submarines, which are smaller than the ones required by the Navy and hence need a smaller pack of the AIP system.

Sources said this means TKMS will have to develop a bigger AIP system. The fuel cell batteries on board the German submarines are manufactured by a different firm and TKMS has offered its own for the Indian contract, which means the battery performance will have to be tested again, sources said.


“Both the companies don’t meet the complete requirements as sought by the Indian Navy in the RFP but both are good and can deliver. The Spanish would be a faster one since they already have the larger S-80 class and were inducted into the Spanish Navy and will undergo minor design tweaks. TKMS will have to design the submarine completely,” a source said.

Sources said the Navy had insisted on proven AIP technology because it feared the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) would say it could offer the systems it was developing indigenously, which would delay the programme further.

India is building six Scorpene-class submarines, with the fifth and sixth to have an indigenous AIP system, but both have missed their deadlines.

The plan was then tweaked for the first Scorpene-class submarine coming into refit next year to be integrated with an AIP system. However, it is not certain because trials are still on, sources said.

Navantia uses the latest-generation Bio Ethanol Stealth Technology for its AIP with bioethanol as a fuel, making it both environmentally friendly and easy to refuel as bioethanol is easily available across the world.


Bioethanol’s availability makes it easy to refuel an AIP plant at any port without needing specialised hydrogen refuelling systems, unlike previous generation AIP plants offered by TKMS, which require handling of pure hydrogen.

Navantia’s AIP plant is also relatively safer as hydrogen is produced on demand and not stored on board, unlike the other technology where hydrogen is stored and carried in the form of metal hydrides.

Navantia’s AIP plant has been cleared by the Spanish Navy for installation on board its third S-80 class submarine, thereby demonstrating the technological readiness of the system.

Price discovery could be key​

While both TKMS and Navantia have bid for the project, the Germans will have to design a completely new submarine for the Navy, whereas the Spanish are offering the latest S-80 class of submarines, inducted into their Navy in 2023.


The S-80 class is among the latest conventional submarines in the world. With a displacement of close to 3,000 tonnes and a hull diameter of 7.2 metres, it is almost identical to the Indian Navy’s specifications, it is learnt.

Given the size and space, the submarine packs a staggering level of automation, enabling the entire submarine to be operated by a significantly smaller crew strength than smaller submarines.

Sources in the Indian defence establishment admitted that the S-80 class would require minimal redesign for the programme, unlike the other platforms in the fray, as its design and specifications were closest to P75(I) requirements.

Sources said the FET was undertaken after the bids by the German and Spanish companies were technically cleared by the Navy.

It is learnt that the Spanish submarine maker argued with the Navy and the Indian defence ministry that there should be a price discovery, meaning that the bids of both firms should be opened up rather than just going by the FET.

I'll stick to my original statement...

Post in thread 'Project 75 India Diesel-electric Submarine Programs (SSK) : Updates and Discussions' Project 75 India Diesel-electric Submarine Programs (SSK) : Updates and Discussions

P75I is an exercise in futility. By the time either contender has an AIP solution + modified submarine design ready, the DRDO AIP will be ready as well. Purchase of a foreign AIP can no longer be justified at that point & the competition will then shift to whoever is ready to integrate the Indian AIP on their sub for the lowest price.

This is all assuming we don't fully re-assess the sub procurement plan in the meantime. Which might very well happen as the +3 Scorpene order looks ready to go through which will tighten capex in the foreseeable future and we've also reshaped the SSN program structure from 3+3 to 2+4 which probably means a lot of yet-to-mature techs have been put off for Batch-2 and the first batch might be realized sooner than previously thought as a result.

The future is bleak for P75I despite all the needless excitement created by the media in last few months. There is simply no ready-made solution available for us to buy off the shelf that meets all our requirements & conditions.

 

[Speedster1]

Are we actually weighing Navantia's experience & expertise against that of TKMS wherein the S-80 class having been recently commissioned is yet to prove itself & its performance can only be evaluated over a period of time to gauge its longevity & maintainability ?

TKMS has had its fair share of problems too. For example, both the Greek and Turkish navies delayed deliveries of their respective Type 214s because of problems with their sonars, AIP and buoyancy. The risk is about the same as S-80 if TKMS is proposing a clean sheet design (Type 216/218?)

Imo, the IN should look at the Israeli Dakar class or Singapore Invincible class which should have had most of their niggles ironed out by now. In the 1990s, when ex-HDW was trying to interest the IN in more Type 209s, one proposal was based on the Israeli Dolphin class. The IN apparently also wanted the Popeye Turbo tube-launched Ashm/LACM on those boats.

 

[_Anonymous_]

TKMS has had its fair share of problems too. For example, both the Greek and Turkish navies delayed deliveries of their respective Type 214s because of problems with their sonars, AIP and buoyancy .

True. You can throw in the recent decision in RoK's favour by an arbitration panel ruling against TKMS. Yet these are exceptions in an illustrious career spent building a few hundred submarines over the past several decades.

The risk is about the same as S-80 if TKMS is proposing a clean sheet design (Type 216/218?)

What's Navantia's comparative record like ?

Imo, the IN should look at the Israeli Dakar class or Singapore Invincible class which should have had most of their niggles ironed out by now. In the 1990s, when ex-HDW was trying to interest the IN in more Type 209s, one proposal was based on the Israeli Dolphin class. The IN apparently also wanted the Popeye Turbo tube-launched Ashm/LACM on those boats.

 

[Chain Smoker]

Biggest L by navy.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1844056569304186937

 

[Sathya]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1843928711927869907

 

[randomradio]

Going by the article, Spain has all the main advantages. Operational design + very close to proven AIP at the specs IN wants. And with Spain insisting on opening bids, they don't just want to win the Indian tender, but to prove to other countries of their superior bid, alongside shutting up domestic and foreign detractors.

DRDO partnering up with L&T for Kalvari's AIP is also a big advantage over MDL. L&T will manufacture and integrate AIP on all the Kalvaris.

And as already expected, which the Germans themselves confirmed, a sub for India would have to be designed and built from scratch, both sub and AIP. The level of risk here is far greater. So the Germans were always the preventing a single vendor situation.

Won't be surprised if L&T is chosen for the SSNs too.

@Parthu
DRDO's AIP is not up to P75I standards either. The one on Scorpene is small, and requires a modernized design for a 3000+T sub. They are in the process of developing a more powerful fuel cell for P76.

Furthermore, DRDO's fuel cell is slightly less powerful than what Kalvari needs, but the IN has decided to go for it anyway. May get an upgrade once P76 is running.

 

[_Anonymous_]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1843928711927869907

Defence policy to be discussed, await Indian decision on submarines: Germany ahead of Chancellor visit

German Chancellor & 8 cabinet ministers expected to arrive in India in October last week for intergovernmental consultations. Defence, military & development partnership on agenda.

theprint.in