PAK-FA / Sukhoi Su-57 - Updates and Discussions

But isn't the CFM-56 superior in terms of efficiency than Russian engines. It's so ironic that US ,France and China have there entire aerospace industry based on this one single engine.

How are they inferior? We know that Chinese mtbf is between 300-600 hours as compared to rd-33's 3000-4000 hrs.
It's a joke—nothing but industrial garbage.
The WS-10“太行”, codenamed 'Tai-hang' after the famous mountain range, earned itself a far more infamous moniker among military enthusiasts back in the golden era of Chinese defense forums: WS-10“太行”'Tai-Bu-Xing' (meaning 'Too Incapable' or 'Total Failureand'Premature Ejaculation'").
Back when those online military forums were still thriving, no matter which site you visited, the Air Force board was invariably split into three predictable camps:
one-third of the threads were actively cursing out the WS-10;
one-third were locked in a relentless, 20-year-long grand debate over whether the Su-27 or the F-15 reigned supreme(Whether it was weaponizing raw engineering data or trash-talking each other's ancestors and privates—this vicious circle was the undying soul of the Chinese web, right up until the 2017 government crackdown that wiped every single domestic military forum off the face of the internet.);
and the remaining third covered everything else.

The WS-10 had an abysmal reliability rate and a painfully narrow flight envelope—meaning that the moment the pilot pulled a high-g combat maneuver, the engine was highly prone to compressor surges and stalls.
It wasn't even fit to carry the water for the Russian AL-31F very far, especially when it came to mid-to-high altitude kinetic performance.
Furthermore, the American F110 itself is fundamentally inferior to the authentic AL-31F.

In terms of operational lifespan, even when the WS-10B fully matured and received its production certification by 2017, it only managed to match the performance of the absolute baseline version of the AL-31F, lagging 15%~20% behind the AL-31FP.

As for the CFM56, the WS-10 is merely a fighter engine derivative kludged together by reverse-engineering the CFM56 core and marrying it to an AL-31F-cloned low-pressure section.
Beyond that, China did a direct carbon-copy of the knockoff CFM56 for the Y-20—which is that piece of junk known as the WS-20, currently rebranded as the AEP-1200 and originally designated as the FWS-10-118. Domestic military fanboys spent years hyping its thrust up to 16 tons, only for last year’s defense exhibition to slap them in the face with a static display boldly labeling it as a '12-ton thrust' engine. Think about the implications: the Chinese spent over 30 years reverse-engineering the CFM56, yet using the exact same frame size and fan diameter, they ended up with a total flop that cannot even match the raw thrust of the ancient D-30KP-2. From that,
it's blindingly obvious what kind of garbage the WS-10 is, given that it shares the exact same knockoff core lineage.

AEP‑1200 is to CMF‑56 as WS‑10 is to F110 — this is called dialectical thinking.

How are they inferior? We know that Chinese mtbf is between 300-600 hours as compared to rd-33's 3000-4000 hrs.
People love hyping up that trash WS-10, while completely ignoring that total failure of a engine, the WS-13—which even our own air force won't look twice at.

Just ask yourself: would Pakistan ever dare to put that hot garbage inside their FC-1? For a single-engine jet, that's not a flight risk, it's straight-up suicide.


The Chinese use the al 31FM2 and used for atleast 4+ years. From what I know the initial versions of the ws-10 were trash so the al-31 has been reliably used for atleast a full decade for j-20 testing and production. The rd-33 very similar(slightly bigger) than the ge-414. Let's not forget that ge-414 is not a stealth engine either.View attachment 52515
Now for all purposes it is good enough especially the sea wasp Rd-33mk. Both the AMCA and TEDBF can be built on the rd-33mk. Apart from the f-22's f-119 there's not a single engine that is truly fifth gen or aircraft that is fifth gen.
Also we are not US, China or Russia. We are stuck at 2000-3000$ gdp per capita. Our baseline capabilities don't allow us to make a fifth gen engine. War is fought on economics we don't have the money of technical capabilities right now. Even Iran is a richer economy than us so is Turkey and SoKo.
Use the rd-33 mk till Kaveri 2 or ge-414 gets online you can make TD's based on both Kaveri and Ge-414 once the deliveries start.
Modern Air warfare basically is having the biggest radar and the longest range missile that you can lob into enemy airspace. We saw the same in Russia-Ukraine we saw the same in Op Sindoor and the same thing has happened in Iran.
When Iran can use f-5's to bomb American airbases what is stopping us from using rd-33mks to make AMCA or MCA or TEDBF.
The mig 29 pretty much has the best kinematics in the IAF after the MKI. The IAF kebabkhors actually think they will get top of the line American tech to shove in the AMCA and take 2 decades to pump one aircraft out of the production line per year.
Having the rd-33 mk allows us to lower cost and speed up or delivery speed. In fact the rd-33mk has fadec like the ge-404(which was the primary reason IAF didn't want Russian engines the mig 29upg RD-33 series 3 doesn't have fadec but the IN mig 29k rd-33mk has fadec)
What kind of silo the IAF is living in only God knows.
We are an enemy state for the Americans. It must now become a priority to de link every major defence program from the Americans.

Most of the stuff on this table doesn’t exist—it’s made up, so its credibility is in the negative.

J-20
2011:AL-31F
2015:AL-31F-M2

2019-Now:WS-10x(The specific designation has not been announced, but there is no such thing as a B‑3. To this day, it has always been the WS‑10. As for whether the WS‑15 has been installed and tested, there is no evidence whatsoever, nor can it be determined by looking at the exhaust nozzle, since the nozzle can be swapped out.)
But the likelihood of the WS-15 officially entering service with the J-20 is extremely, extremely low—just as laughable as the claim that the Chinese internet keeps repeating every single day: 'the H‑20 will make its maiden flight this year.' This assertion has persisted for 20 years, unchanged year after year.
 
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