This is the video of the plane in India - it does not look like it has any RAM coating
PAK-FA / Sukhoi Su-57 - Updates and Discussions
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This is the video of the plane in India - it does not look like it has any RAM coating
There is no discernible RAM coating in any picture or videos from the India visit. I had checked a couple of pictures earlier as well when folks were trolling the F-35 coating. If you look at the overall build of the plane that was present for the airshow, not the best advertisement.
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LOL! Pot, kettle, black? You too are a keyboard warrior, my friend. Difference is, you're just batting from the opposite side. Like I said on my previous comment, Su-57 being stealthier than F-22/F-35 is against the laws of physics.PS: @ALL keyboard warriors
What if Su-57 is more stealthy than F-22/F-35 & J-20
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the T-50-04 (4th prototype) was the same one that visited the Zhuhai Airshow a few months before Aero India. It is a crudely built prototype, with exposed rivets/screws, mis-aligned panels and overall in poor shape, lacking any n all RAS/RAM coating. The T-50-04 and T-50-07 both were trolled mercilessly on the Chinese social media owing to their poor build quality.
And yet its RCS impressed IAF. Just imagine what full-blown Su-57M would be.
Yeah, great way to interact with former Indian Navy pilot. Kindly tone down your aggression when replying to @vstol Jockey sir.
Lol. When I claimed that MKI UPG. will have GaN based radar from the very first batch, people here called me delusional. But guess what bro, one by one literally all my predictions sans a few have come true. I was the first here to say last year that IAF is going to procure Su-57 and everyone laughed but now everything is blatantly obvious. Truth is, I am seldom wrong or proven incorrect.
I don't talk about things I have no idea about. And it was not me who was proven wrong. F-16 with HG V RAM paint has as low frontal RCS like Rafale(0.1m2 class). I still maintain that.
Maybe I'm or maybe I'm not. Who knows
LOL. This comment proves that you've no idea my friend about stealth. Stralth isn't something fixed or static but very dynamic as jet's RCS value changes with a change in frequency and change in aspect ratio.
Su-57 is more stealthy than F-22/F-35/J-20 from some aspects and in some specific radar bands. So it being more stealthy than F-22/F-35/J-20 isn't against the laws of physics but perfectly aligned with laws of radar stealth(invented by Pyotr Ufimtsev-a Russian himself).
IAF has very advance radars and computer simulators. IACCS tracks and analyses everything that flies within India(and beyond
) IAF would have most definitely analysed all radar tracks of Su-57 and came away impressed. Just imagine how impressive the jet would be with stealthy AL-51F engines and flat nozzles with front/rear radar blockers etc.PS: Rest assured that @vstol knows what he is talking about. IAF is also not only impressed with its RCS but also its sensor fusion and insane kinematics where they think it will slay anything in a knife-fight.
No it didn't. When IAF withdrew from PAK-FA project, T-50-04 had been around for a while and it categorically didn't impress the IAF. IAF said so itself, when it highlighted issues with the aircraft's design stealth.
What you're claiming, OTOH, isn't verifiable by anyone from the IAF or closely linked sources from IAF.
Funnily enough. That exact thought has passed through my mind when I read some of your comments.
When I wrote that, I meant the frontal RCS mostly. But even if I were the consider the profile, belly and rear, Su-57 isn't stealthier than F-22 on either of those metrics. F-35, I can concede that Su-57 maybe is stealthier from the rear (higher chance with AL-51F & flat nozzles), and not from the front or sides. Fact is, Su-57 simply hasn't had the kind of R&D either of the US 5th gen have had. Su-57 could've been a lot better than it is, but due to multiple factors, it isn't. We will revisit this when Su-57M with AL-51F&flat nozzles go into serial production.
The IAF wouldn't have insisted on a 2-seat version of FGFA/Su-57- at the risk of further degrading the RCS - if it's man-machine interface was good, imo. (This requirement was based on its experience with MKI, even though no other stealth flying up until then had a twin seat config)
Strangely, it made no such demand for AMCA. That tells me that the Felon's MMI (avionics, sensor fusion) wasn't up to par with our own tech. (Although that might now change with the arrival of AI pilot's associate tech.
Unfortunately, we're out of options right now with Trump going cuckoo. Su-57 is more of a compulsion than a strategic choice atm. Once again, it's up to India to salvage a half-baked, unproven Russian jet and turn it into a winner.
Strangely, it made no such demand for AMCA. That tells me that the Felon's MMI (avionics, sensor fusion) wasn't up to par with our own tech. (Although that might now change with the arrival of AI pilot's associate tech.
Unfortunately, we're out of options right now with Trump going cuckoo. Su-57 is more of a compulsion than a strategic choice atm. Once again, it's up to India to salvage a half-baked, unproven Russian jet and turn it into a winner.
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You guys aren't getting one fundamental fact right in spite of the oodles of knowledge on display here. It doesn't matter if the Su-57 isn't stealthy enough for the China's IADS or J-20s or PLAAF AWA&CS or even Space Based ISR assets or put in other words , is just a LO FA instead of a VLO or VVLO .
What matters is whether the Su-57 can detect the J-20 before or around the same time as the J-20 "sees " the Su-57. I'd extend the same argument to the other FAs in our fleet - if you're able to see the J-20 around the same time as the latter sees the MKI or the Rafale , it's game on else it's game over .
The IAF believes they can "see" the J-20 & not necessarily thru the LPI AESA Radars of the Rafales or even those of the Su-57 although the same capabilities in these FAs are definitely a shot in the arm for the IAF in case it decides to go in for the Su-57 & additional nos of Rafales.
That's the reason I believe that IAF while upset over the massive differential in the sheer numbers PLAAF will bring to bear over the IAF in a war isn't exactly paranoid like the PAF is when it comes to the IAF .
Whether this confidence on the part of the IAF is justified , time will tell .
IAF withdrew because they wanted to buy 200+ Rafales first and they weren't confident in HAL's tech-transfer absorption capability. Russians also didn't open up T-50 prototypes' technical details to them leaving IAF high and dry despite India funding FGFA's RnD.
Now that Russians have come down from their high-pedestal, IAF is finding out first-hand how awesome Su-57 really is.
PS: If you think @vstol isn't linked with IAF or its pilots then so be it. We know who he is and gravity of his revealations here.
Su-57 is designed to hunt and take down world's best 'air-dominance fighter', the mighty F-22 Raptor. A fully mature and Indianized Su-57(hopefully 2-seat variant), is going to be a nightmare for our enemies just like what MKI was for decades( still is, as we saw in the latest Ops). So can Su-57 defeat J-20? Yes. Not only that but a fully mature Su-57 will also hunt down Chinese ELO 6th gen jets behind our IADS bubble.
PS: As you can see, unlike others who flip and flop like treacherous weather, I have stood firm in my belief in Su-57 and have been saying since last year that IAF is going to procure it. No one here believed me since they have been fed the propaganda that it is crap and Rafale or F-35 is the be all, end all for IAF. Once Su-57 deal is signed, my faith in it shall be vindicated.
Propaganda, eh? While you act so high & mighty taking stance in favour of Su-57, you haven't bothered to provide any argument which actually "busts" the "propaganda" you so cavalierly claim everyone has been fed with. Russian R&D hasn't kept up with US R&D for decades, and it'd be foolish to argue otherwise. Without sufficient R&D, all the claims made on paper are just that: claims on paper.
Being designed to do something and actually being able to execute it are entirely different things altogether. For eg: Marut was designed to go Mach 2, barely went past Mach 1 (and we all know why).
If the Su-57 needs an MKI-fication to actually have avionics package & sensor fusion worthy of a 5th gen jet, then the resources required for it will come at the cost of AMCA programme and at AMCA's projected timeline. It beats the entire point of a stop-gap, which you just refuse to understand. Get off your high horse mate, it's a getting a bit nauseating reading such stuff. IAF procuring Su-57 will be a political choice as a direct result of Trump's antics, not bcoz IAF's smitten with it or it is the greatest thing since sliced bread as you make it out to be.
Being designed to do something and actually being able to execute it are entirely different things altogether. For eg: Marut was designed to go Mach 2, barely went past Mach 1 (and we all know why).
If the Su-57 needs an MKI-fication to actually have avionics package & sensor fusion worthy of a 5th gen jet, then the resources required for it will come at the cost of AMCA programme and at AMCA's projected timeline. It beats the entire point of a stop-gap, which you just refuse to understand. Get off your high horse mate, it's a getting a bit nauseating reading such stuff. IAF procuring Su-57 will be a political choice as a direct result of Trump's antics, not bcoz IAF's smitten with it or it is the greatest thing since sliced bread as you make it out to be.
I am only in favour of AMCA however late it may be..and also not is favour of Su 57.
Things are in favour of Su 57 are ,
Made in India with same production facilities .
At minimum, Su 30 kind of deal, at best with Indian radar and avionics.
AMCA program can feed Su 57 , it ll reduce time for MkI zation .
Large IWB.
We get weapons for IWB , anything that's better, we can purchase.
We can upgrade as when we want by ourselves.
against Su57
- Timeline
- 50-60 isn't enough for defensive battle or Make in India , has to be large.
- For offensive operation , ability to penetrate Chines IADS.
- Sanctions if any.
How does Su-57 NG/M differs from our AMCA. Can they complement each other?
Also, the latest announcement regarding Sudarshan Chakra.. although it's to be researched, developed, made in India only.. can S-500 joint production with 100% ToT be used as one layer of the chakra? Or the next gen patriot system.
Su57 is a heavier 35+ mtow ton jet.
Amca will be 27 tons mtow.
Su57 has largest iwb length wise out of all the inservice stealth jets.
For comparison our su30mki has mtow of ~38 tons
Rafale has mtow of 24.5 tons.
F35 A has mtow of 31 tons.
F35B has Mtow of 28 tons.
J20 has mtow of ~37 tons.
Tejas has mtow of 13.5 tons.
Tejas mk2 will gave mtow of 17.5 tons.
S-500 is an upper tier BMD system that is a direct equivalent to PDV/AAD in India. Since we are already deploying the latter, I don't see much room for S-500 (no official specs) unless it has complementary performance in terms of intercept altitude/range/kill probability.
Collaboration on components like C4I, radar could be a possibility though. Sudarshan Chakra seems to have many offensive and defensive layers, both kinetic and cyber. Imo, it could be the core of a national A2/AD architecture.
Ignore some of the arm chair experts here, they dont understand how stealth works and refuse to take their head out of americas butt who quotes peak rcs values like rcs is stationary and same at all angles.And yet its RCS impressed IAF. Just imagine what full-blown Su-57M would be.
Yeah, great way to interact with former Indian Navy pilot. Kindly tone down your aggression when replying to @vstol Jockey sir.
Lol. When I claimed that MKI UPG. will have GaN based radar from the very first batch, people here called me delusional. But guess what bro, one by one literally all my predictions sans a few have come true. I was the first here to say last year that IAF is going to procure Su-57 and everyone laughed but now everything is blatantly obvious. Truth is, I am seldom wrong or proven incorrect.
I don't talk about things I have no idea about. And it was not me who was proven wrong. F-16 with HG V RAM paint has as low frontal RCS like Rafale(0.1m2 class). I still maintain that.
Maybe I'm or maybe I'm not. Who knows
LOL. This comment proves that you've no idea my friend about stealth. Stralth isn't something fixed or static but very dynamic as jet's RCS value changes with a change in frequency and change in aspect ratio.
Su-57 is more stealthy than F-22/F-35/J-20 from some aspects and in some specific radar bands. So it being more stealthy than F-22/F-35/J-20 isn't against the laws of physics but perfectly aligned with laws of radar stealth(invented by Pyotr Ufimtsev-a Russian himself).
So at least you agree that su57m has better rear stealth due to new engine with flat nozzle, however you failed to do so in the other angles, its belly is the best designed belly with least flat surface which will increase rcs when scanned from radars below or in enemy territory, su57 was the best stealth when viewed from below becaused of its disturbed and angled belly, not to mention its the flattest designed 5th gen fighter on the planet with tiny vertical stabilizers unlike the billboard sized rudders on f22 which if you knew the phsyics of rcs, it would mean a much higher chance of getting detected from side for f22 or f35. So the side, belly and rear stealth is already lower for raptor and fat amy vs felon, people need to realize that stealth is not a invisibility cloak when the houthis with passive radars detected the f35 and forced it to run away cause it has nothing much against IR missiles even when they used older IR missiles, stealth can only take you so far in a war, the raptor doesnt even have a proper irst for passive detection, while the felon does and has much better countermeasures against IR missiles, it was also evident that flight performance is also very much important when trying to evade fighter jets when they are trying to bleed the missile of energy using fast evasive maneuvers and su57 is the best jet on the planet right now to survive in contest airspace when missiles are fired at you.
"Least" flat surface.
Russians literally tried to keep everything flat, the only thing not flat on belly is engine intakes.
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