PAK-FA / Sukhoi Su-57 - Updates and Discussions

Rajput Lion said:
@randomradio, @vstol Jockey, @Parthu, @Picdelamirand-oil, @Bon Plan, @Speedster1, @Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik, @Ashwin, @marich01, @_Anonymous_, @Innominate, @YoungWolf,
@Aniruddha, @Sathya, @Ironhide, @Milspec, @Arctic Wolf, @harry et al.......

Just check out this video and make whatever you can out of it;)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1912412304270119174
Click to expand...

There's nothing there though. Just that whatever we buy will require very high ToT. Just the usual diplomatic answer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ironhide and Rajput Lion
Rajput Lion said:
@randomradio, @vstol Jockey, @Parthu, @Picdelamirand-oil, @Bon Plan, @Speedster1, @Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik, @Ashwin, @marich01, @_Anonymous_, @Innominate, @YoungWolf,
@Aniruddha, @Sathya, @Ironhide, @Milspec, @Arctic Wolf, @harry et al.......

Just check out this video and make whatever you can out of it;)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1912412304270119174
Click to expand...

He gave an expected diplomatic answer in line with political goal of self-reliance. All makers are trying to woo us to fund their future R&D.
I already mentioned + & - points of Su-57 long back. IDK how can Russians make such half-cooked flawed jet & not come up with a V2 of it. They treated just the nozzle. But as it is way better than Su-3X, so few jets as stopgap could be fine. But we should not let anything stall our domestic R&D.
Since 1990s IT boom, we have lots of surplus experienced techies now, absorb them into industry, take the big leap.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Agni 1P and Rajput Lion
  • Like
Reactions: Rajput Lion
Rajput Lion said:
Very balanced take on Su-57's India acquisition by Defence Matrix. Guys, give it a look:

Click to expand...
I don't know why but since a few years I'm getting a feeling of Deja Vu about the Rafales & Su-57. I feel that history will repeat itself for a very different set of reasons .

We'd get a further 2 squadrons of Rafales & possibly anywhere between 2-4 squadrons of Su-57 much like we got the Mirage 2000s & the MiG-29s 4 decades ago.

If you look at the issue logically as I've been these past 2-3 weeks it boils down to whether Dassault will provide us with the source codes. I don't see them doing so.

What this means is we'd most likely close the order once & for all with a further 2 squadrons for which we've already paid for in terms of the base infrastructure , ISE etc .

The shortfall & the need to take on the J-20 + J-16 combination will then fall upon the Su-57. The only issue is time is of the essence. We're running against it .

Quite frankly I don't see how we'd get 2 squadrons of Rafales & 2-4 squadrons of Su-57 by 2030 even if we choose the baseline model to be upgraded to the M version later on like we did with the MKI following the same template for this transaction as well.

Moreover Leaderji better be liberal with his spending which is another issue for he's sitting pretty on a lot of cash which can't be spent on infrastructure anymore as we've reached the limits of capacity expansion unless we want to go down the path of the Chinese & send bullet trains to nowhere , build ghost cities , have metros in jhumri talaiya etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ironhide, redpanda, Asterion Moloc and 1 other person
randomradio said:
2 squadrons of Rafales and MRFA, which Su-57 has to compete in and win to be chosen. The F-35 too.
Click to expand...
IAF & GOI shall soon realize(if they haven't already) that our woes are because of this either Rafale/MRFA or FGFA/Su-57/60 thing. It always should have been Rafale + Su-57. Both of us have already debated this umpteenth times and I know that your viewpoints can't be altered on this subject. But I have always maintained that to take on PLAAF & PAF in 2030s, we need both Rafale and Su-57s. Anyways, by the look of things now, my wish may soon get fulfilled;)
 
Rajput Lion said:
IAF & GOI shall soon realize(if they haven't already) that our woes are because of this either Rafale/MRFA or FGFA/Su-57/60 thing. It always should have been Rafale + Su-57. Both of us have already debated this umpteenth times and I know that your viewpoints can't be altered on this subject. But I have always maintained that to take on PLAAF & PAF in 2030s, we need both Rafale and Su-57s. Anyways, by the look of things now, my wish may soon get fulfilled;)
Click to expand...
It was always the LCA -> MMRCA -> FGFA -> AMCA.

That was how the series of procurement was to roll except LCA kept getting delayed & IAF kept shifting the goalposts till MP stepped in & brought sanity to the project & brought it back on track by bifurcating the requirements.

MMRCA kept coming back like a bad penny since the past 2 decades or 4 , take your pick.

Russians played dirty with the PAKFA & we opted out which was the right decision as we weren't getting what we wanted .

Besides the Aerospace ecosystem had matured considerably by then & with no other choice in terms of a 5th Gen FA the IAF backed the ADA for the AMCA.

When the decision was taken to get out of the PAKFA / FGFA project , things were in a far better shape than what it turned out to be .

We were supposed to induct the MK-1a by 2022 , the Mk-2 was to begin testing by 2024 & the AMCA Mk-1 was to do so by 2026.

The contract negotiations for the MK-1a took 3 years . Then CCS sat on approvals for the Mk-2 for ~ 3 years & the follow up to the initial batch of Rafales just didn't materialise.

I'd lay the blame squarely on the MoD & the no good Raksha Mantri for the state of affairs with Leaderji offering lip sympathies to the armed forces by visiting them every Diwali for photo ops but not putting his money where his mouth is .

In the final analysis it's his apathy which is responsible to a large extent for the dismal current state of affairs . What else explains our defence spending in terms of % of the GDP is even lower than what it was during Nehru's tenure .

At least in the latter's case it could be argued we inherited a broken economy & state where the room for manoeuvre wasn't much , Nehru's own idiosyncrasies about defence notwithstanding . What excuse does Modi have to offer ?
 
  • Like
  • Agree
Reactions: Immortal, Ironhide, Asterion Moloc and 3 others
Rajput Lion said:
IAF & GOI shall soon realize(if they haven't already) that our woes are because of this either Rafale/MRFA or FGFA/Su-57/60 thing. It always should have been Rafale + Su-57. Both of us have already debated this umpteenth times and I know that your viewpoints can't be altered on this subject. But I have always maintained that to take on PLAAF & PAF in 2030s, we need both Rafale and Su-57s. Anyways, by the look of things now, my wish may soon get fulfilled;)
Click to expand...

The old plan from the mid-2000s disappeared with the arrival of LCA Mk2 and AMCA's design change.

The earlier plan was LCA Mk1A in the form of old Mk2, MMRCA, non-stealth AMCA (in place of MWF-Mk2), and FGFA. AURA was in the works with no guarantees of success.

Later the IAF was provided more information by both Dassault/EADS and DRDO (and some air forces) which changed the IAF's entire line of thinking, so they came up with a new doctrine which was published in 2022, which means things had already changed between 2014-16. This new 2022 doctrine is what resulted in the massive success of Op Sindoor, this is why, as I had pointed out for more than half a decade, spending was obscured from the public, which only a few people and the industry could pick up on.

DRDO came up with MWF-LCA Mk2, Dassault (and EADS) came up with their networked warfare plan with Rafale/Typhoon alongside DRDO's independent but new networking plan, and DRDO came up with a plan to junk FGFA with an advanced version of AMCA. And AURA results showed development of a stealth drone was feasible.

In the meantime, HAL and Sukhoi assessed that MKI's real life expectancy was 40 years instead of 25, and the IAF could push off the planned replacement of the MKI with FGFA from 2025 to 2045.

IAF wanted LCAs in a hurry, so HAL came up with Mk1A.

So the new plan became LCA Mk1A + Mk2, MRFA, and AMCA, along with Ghatak. The new AMCA alongside MKI's delayed service exit removed the need for Su-57, and the IAF is interested in a jet that's a step or two above that to replace the MKI. This new plan is essentially about 8-9 years old now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: babablacksheep, redpanda and Rajput Lion
  • Like
Reactions: nair, D68, marich01 and 3 others
Rajput Lion said:
Now that the cat is out of the bag, everyone knows where we are heading. But your boy said this just few days ago and have been saying this for the last year after the news of J-35 to PAF first broke out;)

View attachment 44301
@randomradio, @vstol Jockey, @_Anonymous_, @YoungWolf, @Speedster1, @marich01, @Parthu, @South block, @redpanda, @Defc0n, @RASALGHUL, @D68, @Arpit, @Asterion Moloc, @Milspec, @nair, @Ironhide et al
Click to expand...

Lol if this is the bar for your prediction who all should be celebrating over F-35 "offer". There is no such confirmation.

There will be no shortage of stupid decisions when in panic. Russian junk with chinese electronics is not something to celebrate.

We should be questioning the incompetence of this government's policies and the decade-long delays in LCA Mk2 and AMCA approvals.
 
  • Like
Reactions: D68, 12LeadsNeverLie, South block and 2 others
Tatvamasi said:
Lol if this is the bar for your prediction who all should be celebrating over F-35 "offer". There is no such confirmation.

There will be no shortage of stupid decisions when in panic. Russian junk with chinese electronics is not something to celebrate.

We should be questioning the incompetence of this government's policies and the decade-long delays in LCA Mk2 and AMCA approvals.
Click to expand...
Time will tell my friend. Till then hold tight.
 
Rajput Lion said:
Now that the cat is out of the bag, everyone knows where we are heading. But your boy said this just few days ago and have been saying this for the last year after the news of J-35 to PAF first broke out;)

View attachment 44301
@randomradio, @vstol Jockey, @_Anonymous_, @YoungWolf, @Speedster1, @marich01, @Parthu, @South block, @redpanda, @Defc0n, @RASALGHUL, @D68, @Arpit, @Asterion Moloc, @Milspec, @nair, @Ironhide et al
Click to expand...
A lot of "sources" make a lot of noise and mostly lack any substance. I won't read anything into it. This is the farthest thing from "official" anything can be. This is barely a step above empty rumours. Until anyone from IAF top brass hint towards any negotiations for a foreign 5th gen, which they haven't, everything's hot air.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tatvamasi, redpanda, Asterion Moloc and 2 others
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom