PAK-FA / Sukhoi Su-57 - Updates and Discussions

Why is the J20 a abomination? If they sort the engine issues, it's a capable 5th gen jet.
It's a bloated boat aerodynamically. If it becomes a knife fight the j-20 will lose to both the su-57 and f-22 and even the f-35. The thing that is going for it is it's huge range and huge aesa radar and BVR capability. Even a mig 21 can take it down if it becomes a wvr fight. It is design as a long range sniper while the j-10 and j-11 get into the aerial knife fights. It's A2G capability is inferior to both the su-57 and f-22. The only thing going for it are pl-15/pl-16 missiles.
On top of that it's ugly af with those canards. I feel the j-20 has a huge room for improvement even in its present state and when the Chinese are done with the design we will see a world beater but it's still nowhere near su-57 and f-22 when it comes to basic of aerial combat.
J-36 follows the same philosophy. So it will be taken out in a very similar fashion to the j-20.
 
No chance and no thanks. Su-57 is a super plane while Su-75 is just a cheap 5th gen jet for 2nd tier air-forces. As far as our 5th gen plans go, it's going to be structured around 140-200 Su-57D/60MKI & 250+ AMCAs(along with 20-25 squadrons of stealthy UCAVs like Ghatak/FUFA etc.).
When IAF is looking to join 6gen & get some Su-57, crying about LCA, MWF, AMCA delays, then it's possible it MAY look for some Su-75. We can transform MWF easily, cal it Tejas-3. Russia in its advertisement has already included us so in background it may be already trying to convince us. Time'll tell.
 
Russia entered the war with a huge stockpile of Soviet legacy systems, many of them modernized or upgraded. If the superiority of these “old Soviet relics” were sufficient by itself, Russia should have achieved a decisive victory very quickly. It did not.

To be fair, they failed at execution. If you end up with 2-3x the material losses, the tactics used become the problem.
 
Those are old engines. IM🧅 we should negotiate for Iz-177, as per search it is meant for Su-57 & Su-75 export. The engine has better life span, better SFC, TVC nozzle, FADEC, etc. But we should clarify with Russia if/when it'll have rear ceramic RF blocker, transpiration cooling, flat TVC nozzle.
Ultimately we should have our own appropriate domestic/JV engine, but Iz-177'll do till then.
Absorbing iz-177 tech will take a decade. We have the al-31fp right now with the ability to make the engine. Progressive material improvement will allow us improve the efficiency and heat dissipation of the engine. Plus we have the knowhow of the engine. Just build an AHCA/HCA 5-6th gen aircraft using the al-31fp and a strike bomber. We can make aero designs the only issue is the engine. But we already are producing engines that work pretty well. We can't match western standards but our enemies are other fellow third world states and China and we need numbers which western manufacturing can't fulfill. We need mass production of the su-30's, su-35, al-31 based stealth aircraft and bombers. The best part is we can re-engine them with the iz-177s when the tech starts to age.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kiduva21 and batman
Absorbing iz-177 tech will take a decade. We have the al-31fp right now with the ability to make the engine. Progressive material improvement will allow us improve the efficiency and heat dissipation of the engine. Plus we have the knowhow of the engine. Just build an AHCA/HCA 5-6th gen aircraft using the al-31fp and a strike bomber. We can make aero designs the only issue is the engine. But we already are producing engines that work pretty well. We can't match western standards but our enemies are other fellow third world states and China and we need numbers which western manufacturing can't fulfill. We need mass production of the su-30's, su-35, al-31 based stealth aircraft and bombers. The best part is we can re-engine them with the iz-177s when the tech starts to age.
True, I just realised after reading your comment. Our enemies aka Pakistan and China are operating older Russian and inferior copies of Russian engine, instead of trying to acquire a slightly more advanced western engine from an unreliable partner, we should have acquired a reliable engine from a time tested partner like Russia and mass produced it but I guess it's easy to make such claims in hindsight about decisions taken decade's ago but I have to say that not at all choosing Russia's engines for any our indigenous platforms and being completely dependant on western engines seems to have backfired on us, I just hope that our future platforms have better thought out plans and risk mitigations measures taken place.
 
It's a bloated boat aerodynamically. If it becomes a knife fight the j-20 will lose to both the su-57 and f-22 and even the f-35. The thing that is going for it is it's huge range and huge aesa radar and BVR capability.
Well modern warfare isn't designed around visual range dogfights but beyond visual range combat which was the priority behind its design. Even the F35 would be relatively weak in WVR against other jets, I also don't think guns will be very relevant in 2026 and their choice to use that space for better BVR capability is a sound one.
Even a mig 21 can take it down if it becomes a wvr fight.
However unlike the F22, there is no typical 1v1 situation where a Mig 21 would be able to get close enough to engage the J20 in wvr range combat before it gets blown to bits unless it's somehow able to sneak past it's radar blind spots using certain measures.
It is design as a long range sniper while the j-10 and j-11 get into the aerial knife fights. It's A2G capability is inferior to both the su-57 and f-22. The only thing going for it are pl-15/pl-16 missiles.
The J20 just like the F22 was designed to be an air superiority jet, the Su57 was designed to be a multi role jet. I also don't see how the F22 will do better strike roles than the J20 considering it wasn't designed for such roles and is outdated in many ways by today's standards.
On top of that it's ugly af with those canards.
Subjective
I feel the j-20 has a huge room for improvement even in its present state and when the Chinese are done with the design we will see a world beater
Reasonable
but it's still nowhere near su-57 and f-22 when it comes to basic of aerial combat.
J-36 follows the same philosophy. So it will be taken out in a very similar fashion to the j-20.
Except for it's raw kinematics and slightly better stealth profile at some profiles, how is the F22 a better jet?

The J20 has a bigger (it's the biggest nose mounted AESA radar currently operational in stealth jets) and a more advanced GAN radar versus the smaller and inferior GaA radar of F22.

PL-15 has estimated range of 200-300km, with a dual-pulse motor and AESA seeker. AIM-120D has estimated range of 130-160km. This overmatch is publicly recognised by US military planners and is not news.

The J20 has better supersonic performance while F22 has better subsonic performance.

The J20 has twice the combat radius of F22.

The outdated F22 also has no HMD, no IRST, no EOTS, obsolete processor, 90's era cockpit, limited data link capability etc

No jet is perfect, each will have it's share of flaws based on their design constraints.

I'll post a comment from a aviation expert on why the US wanted to retire the F22 in the first place,

"The USAF wants to retire the F-22 beginning around 2030 mainly due to two reasons: the F-22’s high operating costs, and the F-22’s obsolescence in a number of areas, with the latter being the primary reason,

‘With regards to high operating costs, the F-22 fleet was not produced in sufficient quantities to replace the F-15, and therefore its logistics and supply chain do not benefit from economy of scale as much as jets like the F-16 and F-35. The F-22 also uses legacy stealth materials that increase maintenance costs; properly retrofitting the F-22 with the F-35’s more durable full material stack is also not possible without replacing the composite panels of every F-22. These composites are not the same, so the structural strength of the jet and possibly the thickness of its skin would be affected, requiring recertification of its life limit and likely some redesigns of panels and doors to accommodate altered geometry. There are also a number of other technological advances that allows fighters to be cheaper to maintain, but which would require redesigns of the F-22, some being quite deep.

‘In terms of obsolescence, the F-22’s biggest issues are its limited range, its outdated core avionics and its stealth design.’

Smith continues; ‘For range, the F-22 was designed primarily for fighting in Europe and turn of the millennium era threats, and so its combat radius of approximately 590 nautical miles (less with any use of supercruise) is not ideal for a war with China. This is because jets may need to be flying from locations like Guam and relying on tankers only ~400 nautical miles (if F-22s are using supercruise) behind the F-22’s, which would then be threatened by new very long range missiles and enemy stealth fighters that may be able to slip sufficiently far past fighter screens to take those tankers out.

‘By comparison, the F-35A (land-based variant) has an air-to-air combat radius of 760 nautical miles, with a new engine being developed for it which would boost that to nearly 1000 nautical miles. The F-22’s NGAD successor is also anticipated to have an approximately 1000+ nautical miles combat radius.

‘For its core avionics the F-22 is considerably hampered by old ADA code with limited modularity, being run on old processors. Because the software isn’t very modular or open, adding a new sensor requires a lot of extra work. For the F-22 to outperform jets like the J-20 into the 2030s and beyond, it needs to keep up by getting a helmet mounted display, a panoramic cockpit display, updated electronic warfare systems, long range infrared sensors, updated communications systems, improved sensor fusion and combat ID systems, etc. Developing a clean sheet system based around an open architecture will take time and money, but from there it’ll be much easier to keep cutting edge, which will be critical as we enter into something resembling a second Cold War.

‘For stealth, the F-22 is quite stealthy, but its potential was compromised in order to make it very agile, which in this day and age is becoming a lesser and lesser priority as air-to-air missiles become more advanced.’

Smith concludes;

‘By creating a clean sheet fighter, you can make a jet better shaped to have highly effective stealth against both fire control radar bands like the X-band, and lower frequency “counter-stealth” search radars operating in the UHF and VHF bands, allowing jets like NGAD to escort B-21 bombers as they penetrate deep into enemy airspace.’ "
 
45 MiG-29Ks (twin-seat variants included) — covering everything from R&D to production — plus the Vikramaditya, all for $2.2 billion.

16 Mig-29K + carrier = $2.2B. 2002.
29 Mig-29K = $1.2B. 2010.

2025 price for all. $6.8B + $2.5 = $9.3B.

26 Rafale Ms — $7.5 billion.
IAC-2 aircraft carrier — $5billion.

$12.5B.

Now add upgrade costs for Mig-29Ks to bring it up to Rafale class. A few more billion.
 
Absorbing iz-177 tech will take a decade. We have the al-31fp right now with the ability to make the engine. Progressive material improvement will allow us improve the efficiency and heat dissipation of the engine. Plus we have the knowhow of the engine. Just build an AHCA/HCA 5-6th gen aircraft using the al-31fp and a strike bomber. We can make aero designs the only issue is the engine. But we already are producing engines that work pretty well. We can't match western standards but our enemies are other fellow third world states and China and we need numbers which western manufacturing can't fulfill. We need mass production of the su-30's, su-35, al-31 based stealth aircraft and bombers. The best part is we can re-engine them with the iz-177s when the tech starts to age.

- There're DoD PPT slides showing "HFA" but IDK what plans behind it.

1781166769791.png

- Our HFA/AHCA TD'll also take some time say 5-10 years if started this year with supercomputing, AI/ML, modern prod. tech, etc.
- If Russia allows Su-57 airframe modification then it can also be used for TD but still its modification'll also take few years.
- But Iz-177 has already flown with Su-57, that's what we wan't just for our TD, so waiting 10 years not needed.
- I've said since 2000s when J-20 was rumored, Su-30K were inducted, AL-31 license was given, that we should've started our heavy class 5+gen jet, like China did.
- Russian & Chinese products are far less quality than American/European doesn't mean they stopped their R&D & compromised national security, which we did bczo of which import culture has touched 6gen also.

> But now when -
- AL-41 is common,​
- Russians moving to AL-51 & AL-41 derivatives,​
- TD demonstrates engine tech too,​
- we don't need ToT to fly TD,​
hence we should try to negotiate ideally for Iz-177 which has been flown & said to have most 5gen parameters & on remaining parameters we should clarify with Russia.

- 2nd quick option is AL-41F1 (Iz-117) with 3D TVC used by Su-57 so far.
- 3rd quick option is AL-41F1-S (Iz-117-S) with 3D TVC used by Su-35-S.

- AL-51 (Iz-30) with flat TVC nozzle, is for their domestic 5gen upgrade over AL-41F1 (Iz-117).
- Iz-177-S is for their 4gen upgrade over Iz-117-S.
- Iz-177 is for exported 5gen.
I hope i got the internet search correct.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Lolwa
India, on the other hand, clearly stood by completely unmoved during the great Soviet blueprint fire sale of the 1990s. I have no idea what sort of decision-making led to that — it was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. The Chinese, however, seized it with both hands.

The technologies we wanted, like cryogenic engine, was stopped by the US.

But as I see it, securing the license and local production of the AL-31F is even more critical and practical.

We already have that.

The 177S — I don't think they'd ever sell you that

Russia's offered Izd 30 for local production.

(The WS-10x is a piece of garbage, and what I find baffling is why no one on these foreign forums ever discusses it. It's very strange. Have you all been brainwashed by watching too many Douyin short videos, or does the U.S. government need a target to hype up, so it's deliberately "killing with praise" when it comes to Chinese equipment? For a veteran of Chinese military forums like myself, these reactions feel utterly surreal — as if I've stepped into some alternate dimension.)

We already know WS-10X is garbage. We just don't bother bringing it up because this discussion ended more than a decade ago.

If the AL-31F could be fully localized, that would be a genuine leap forward. Fighters, bombers, warships, gas-fired power stations — all of it could be solved in one go.

We are doing that with the indigenous Kaveri (75-90 kN) and a French engine for AMCA (120-140 kN).

Actually, I have a very strange question here — why doesn't India develop its own airliner? It sits right at the center of the Indian Ocean, with a desperate need for aviation capacity.

Just starting one.

Anyway, I'm not optimistic about the F414. Not because I'm Chinese, but because the F414 is an American product. And besides, its thrust is too low.

The aircraft are medium weight, 25T class.

This engine is not mean to support Indian R&D, it's only to ensure domestic sustainability of LCA and TEDBF programs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: YoungWolf
View attachment 52127
View attachment 52126
Crazy to think that Russia is gonna deploy their second 5-5.5th Generation Aircraft before the AMCA. @Hyperactive ADD was right, apart from the Americans, no country can compete with the military industrial complex of the Russians and they are more pragmatic and realistic than American's in their approach. I felt that Russians were better Aircraft makers than American's for quite some time but people tend to confuse the affects of the collapse of the Soviet Union and their lost decade on their industrial complex as somehow a lack of their capability which is obviously not true.

Su75 Checkmate is Russia's first single engine aircraft and I like it for a lot of reasons,

The control surfaces on the Su-75 is quite unique - or maybe even revolutionary! It would be interesting to see what effect the extreme angle the inner flaps would have on aerodynamics (esp maneuverability). The beaver tail is yet another quite unique innovation.
View attachment 52128
Makes sense since the Russia's Su57 was the first to employ a lot of things like Levcon's which other 6th gen designs wanted to copy, Russia is simply ahead of the curve than everyone in this matter. Not to mention the multiband arrays and such.

View attachment 52129
First jet after the Americans and Chinese to employ Diverterless Supersonic Inlet with performance optimal for transonic speed which is the critical range of speed used in operation like air combat and high speed low level penetration. The intakes also being close to the nose will prevent a well developed boundary layer from forming and hence the intake will encounter a thinner boundary which will make it easier for the DSI to divert low energy air before it reaches the engine, this seems like a good design compromise.

The Su75 is everything the F35 was supposed to be but failed at doing so, Su75 will be a low cost stealth jet which will be relatively cheap to procure. From what I can gather here and there the competition might be completely overwhelmed and in shock when they see the price tag. They won't believe it or it's impossible or it's just an outright lie! It is even expected that operational cost per hour of the new Sukhoi fighter will be six to seven times lower than that of the F-35 and for the price of one Indian Rafale buy eight to eleven of these while it's a generation ahead. Even if the checkmate costs twice as much as expected, judging by the price to operate them, it's a bargain for everyone.

The Su75 has 30% range than F35, almost similar weapons payload capacity and able to carry 5 BVRAAM missiles in stealth configuration, higher service ceiling, It will also feature an open architecture to integrate non russian systems, it will also probably have a multiband array for stealth detection, an EOTS system under cockpit like F35 and J20.
View attachment 52131
I would like to hear other's opinion as well.

We don't know enough about its specs to form an opinion yet.

It probably sits in between F-16 B70 and AMCA. Should be cheaper to operate but won't be as capable as AMCA due to its expected avionics compatibility with Su-57.
 
But that makes it hard to say that the Russians have demonstrated the effectiveness of their old relics in Ukraine. :D

Based on what's been said by Western experts, Russian equipment is good, Russian tactics are bad.

Due to lack of air superiority and poor planning when it comes to armored thrusts, the war's degraded into attrition warfare. Plus there's way too much surveillance than there would be in case of a much larger war where NATO surveillance can come under attack.
 
We don't know enough about its specs to form an opinion yet.

It probably sits in between F-16 B70 and AMCA. Should be cheaper to operate but won't be as capable as AMCA due to its expected avionics compatibility with Su-57.
Don't see why you are even comparing it with the F16, The Su57 is an advanced 5th gen stealth jet with Su75 having a combat radius of 1500km while AMCA has btw 1000-1600km which I'm not sure. Avionic's? Really? The Su57 has the most impressive radar suite on a fighter jet and it's constantly getting upgraded based on feedback from the war, the utham is nothing more than a lab project at this point, unless the utham is actually deployed, mass produced, certified and gets matured, such points make no sense. Su75 has 5 AA missile capability while AMCA has 4, 6 if the folding fin astra is real. However air to ground, survivability, upgrade potential, strategic value is greater for AMCA.

I would rank the Su75 << AMCA < Su57.
 
Don't see why you are even comparing it with the F16, The Su57 is an advanced 5th gen stealth jet with Su75 having a combat radius of 1500km while AMCA has btw 1000-1600km which I'm not sure. Avionic's? Really? The Su57 has the most impressive radar suite on a fighter jet and it's constantly getting upgraded based on feedback from the war, the utham is nothing more than a lab project at this point, unless the utham is actually deployed, mass produced, certified and gets matured, such points make no sense. Su75 has 5 AA missile capability while AMCA has 4, 6 if the folding fin astra is real. However air to ground, survivability, upgrade potential, strategic value is greater for AMCA.

I would rank the Su75 << AMCA < Su57.

I was talking about weight and thrust class. 18T, 24T, 36T. F-16 is 15T.
18T sits between 15 and 24. So empty weight, loaded weight, MTOW etc will reflect the thrust.

Su-57's avionics are half a generation to a full generation behind AMCA. With 177, it's performance is 40% inferior to AMCA's. With Izd 30, it will be about 15% inferior to AMCA.

AMCA was designed to surpass the Su-57 in every way imaginable, which is why the IAF decided they are no longer interested in it. It only has a slightly shorter range and a slightly smaller WB. Both tactically irrelevant in comparison. But avionics, stealth, maintenance, operations cost etc are all excessively in favor of AMCA. It was designed 20 years after Su-57 after all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: YoungWolf
- There're DoD PPT slides showing "HFA" but IDK what plans behind it.

View attachment 52146

- Our HFA/AHCA TD'll also take some time say 5-10 years if started this year with supercomputing, AI/ML, modern prod. tech, etc.
- If Russia allows Su-57 airframe modification then it can also be used for TD but still its modification'll also take few years.
- But Iz-177 has already flown with Su-57, that's what we wan't just for our TD, so waiting 10 years not needed.
- I've said since 2000s when J-20 was rumored, Su-30K were inducted, AL-31 license was given, that we should've started our heavy class 5+gen jet, like China did.
- Russian & Chinese products are far less quality than American/European doesn't mean they stopped their R&D & compromised national security, which we did bczo of which import culture has touched 6gen also.

> But now when -
- AL-41 is common,​
- Russians moving to AL-51 & AL-41 derivatives,​
- TD demonstrates engine tech too,​
- we don't need ToT to fly TD,​
hence we should try to negotiate ideally for Iz-177 which has been flown & said to have most 5gen parameters & on remaining parameters we should clarify with Russia.

- 2nd quick option is AL-41F1 (Iz-117) with 3D TVC used by Su-57 so far.
- 3rd quick option is AL-41F1-S (Iz-117-S) with 3D TVC used by Su-35-S.

- AL-51 (Iz-30) with flat TVC nozzle, is for their domestic 5gen upgrade over AL-41F1 (Iz-117).
- Iz-177-S is for their 4gen upgrade over Iz-117-S.
- Iz-177 is for exported 5gen.
I hope i got the internet search correct.
We are stuck in a loop all because the forces, MoD can't give huge orders to anything. Piece meal ordering of technologies while the Chinese do iterative improvement of their tech. The j20A may be trash but by the time the j-20C comes it will have fixed a lot of the issues.
We don't have the luxury that we had in 2018-19 of waiting for a fifth gen engine.
We need over a 1000+ zorawars but the army gives a piecemeal order of 59. No MGS has been ordered.
Even for the Tejas mk1 it's particularly infuriating how not a single individual from the Air force, MoD or Hal put up the proposal of the license manufacturing of ge-404. How do you plan to make your indigenous combat aircraft when you can't even produce the engine that powers it. Then we have clowns online saying that India shouldn't buy the f-35 because America controls it's supply chain and avionics. Well the Tejas is also dependent on Americans for its engine and British for its ejection seat and radome. How can such critical tech not even be partially manufactured in India is beyond my understanding. How has not this still been fixed is a bigger issue we are halfway through our 2020's.
Kebab-Sharaabkhor force are busy doing parties instead.
 
Don't even understand their deep hatred for Russia, they never started a war with America like Pakistan with us, never did terrorist attacks, never had border conflicts with them etc is their predecessor being communist enough to harbour deep hate by the Americans even though Russia is capitalist now? I understand their government having strong feelings but their citizens not so much.

What's your take on the Su75 Checkmate?


I think whether something is good or not comes down to price first.
If the Su-75's price is within 60% of the Su-57's, then it's a pretty good deal.

I believe the Indian Air Force is too small, and a single-engine aircraft like this would provide a massive boost to its combat capability.

At the very least, I think it's far superior to that flashy F-35...

And from a commercial standpoint, if you buy both types simultaneously, it becomes easier to gain leverage when negotiating engine production licenses.

Of course, in the long term, I believe all fifth-generation fighters are already obsolete, and India should go straight into developing a sixth-generation fighter.

As a transitional aircraft, the Su-75 is very suitable. Moreover, its shape is clearly optimized for ground attack (for example, the forward-tilted intakes are obviously meant to shield against radar waves from below), and it has a relatively flat underside. Compared to the Su-57, it would be far less dependent on long-range guided munitions. Perhaps when dropping cheap bombs, the cost would be lower, and it could be used more boldly and with greater confidence...

So in summary, since my fundamental position is that India should pursue sixth-generation fighter development, not fifth-generation,

I think the Su-75 is actually very good,
and an irreplaceable choice.

After all, the Su-57 is twin-engine and just too expensive.
 
We are stuck in a loop all because the forces, MoD can't give huge orders to anything. Piece meal ordering of technologies while the Chinese do iterative improvement of their tech. The j20A may be trash but by the time the j-20C comes it will have fixed a lot of the issues.
We don't have the luxury that we had in 2018-19 of waiting for a fifth gen engine.
We need over a 1000+ zorawars but the army gives a piecemeal order of 59. No MGS has been ordered.
Even for the Tejas mk1 it's particularly infuriating how not a single individual from the Air force, MoD or Hal put up the proposal of the license manufacturing of ge-404. How do you plan to make your indigenous combat aircraft when you can't even produce the engine that powers it.

You're in full angry-birds mode today 🐦🦅🐓🦃
What we sowed🌱 is what we're reaping today.🌵 instead of 🌳
- over-import culture & stalling self R&D.
- over optimism with peace & capability☮️
- over-confident with Himalayas, seas, ocean.🗻🏖️
- linear chain approaches instead of fishbone.
- love afairs with 3gen & 4gen💋👩‍❤️‍💋‍👨, late retirement. 👴
- not catching global tech where we canlike geometric treatment when DRDOwas making RAS, RAM, etc.
- too long procedures for review & approval.

Anyways, some of our govt. units like ISRO, DRDO, etc have done well. Others like HAL are being handled. Next could ADA/NAL.

Then we have clowns online saying that India shouldn't buy the f-35 because America controls it's supply chain and avionics. Well the Tejas is also dependent on Americans for its engine and British for its ejection seat and radome. How can such critical tech not even be partially manufactured in India is beyond my understanding. How has not this still been fixed is a bigger issue we are halfway through our 2020's.
Kebab-Sharaabkhor force are busy doing parties instead.

Sanctions after our nuke test. Delays of F404, F414. Now see the rules with trade tarrifs, Visa, education, job, oilcontrol, etc.
Most of the West just want our money & their business continuity.
Hence we can't trust their quality products also. If we can't even review F-35 source code then it could send sensor data in the name of diagnostics & servicing.
They wanted to sell F-16, perhaps F-15-EX, but will they share F100 or F110 engine? F414 is better but we need higher thrust.
Now when they're moving towards 6gen, will they give F-119 or F-135 engine with limited ToT, i don't think so.

So we should inspect Iz-177 & get it for our TD. it's shame we're looking at GCAP, FCAS airframe when we have talent to make it. We need good management.
 
16 Mig-29K + carrier = $2.2B. 2002.
29 Mig-29K = $1.2B. 2010.

2025 price for all. $6.8B + $2.5 = $9.3B.



$12.5B.

Now add upgrade costs for Mig-29Ks to bring it up to Rafale class. A few more billion.
Despite all the back-and-forth calculations you've thrown at me here, I don't even need to fact-check them to see the sheer success and economic sense of the MiG-29K and the Vikramaditya combination right from your own numbers.


On the other hand, both the Rafale-M and that new dual-shaft aircraft carrier—which carries a measly 20 jets but commands a staggering initial price tag of 5 billion—are nothing short of a total laughingstock