Operation Sindoor: India Strikes Terroist Camps Inside Pakitsan

[Picdelamirand-oil]

I'm talking about the gap between RBE-2AA and APG-81.

RBE2 AESA prototype was built using APG-81 TRMs: it had 892 TRMs and the improvement in range compared with the PESA was 40%. The serial RBE2 AESA has been produced using European UMS TRMs, with 1048 TRMs and a 100% improvement in range compared with the PESA. We have been able to increase the number and power of the TRMs.

 

[Jaymax]

Certain OSINT sources are saying the details for strikes will come out much later as op is still ongoing.

Op is technically ongoing, alert levels are slowly coming down.

This is increasingly looking like the climbdown post Balakot.

The reasons for the slow release of information could be:

1. International Pressure - Pak has again worked the situation and extracted a concession where India will not openly embarrass Pak. In return Pak will keep a lid on terror and not cause any incident where India is compelled to act

2. There is a low probability that there is a planned phase 2 which is still on cards and India doesnt want to give out any information. ( I would like this to be true, but it is looking more and more unlikely).

 

[vstol Jockey]

Op Sindoor is on Hot Standby. Its not over yet and can go into full Spectrum war on very short notice.

 

[screambowl]

Op is technically ongoing, alert levels are slowly coming down.

This is increasingly looking like the climbdown post Balakot.

The reasons for the slow release of information could be:

1. International Pressure - Pak has again worked the situation and extracted a concession where India will not openly embarrass Pak. In return Pak will keep a lid on terror and not cause any incident where India is compelled to act

2. There is a low probability that there is a planned phase 2 which is still on cards and India doesnt want to give out any information. ( I would like this to be true, but it is looking more and more unlikely).

Demeaning Indians on their success by teasing like a monkey is what every one does. This tactic was implemented by Britishers when they were in India and it has been adopted by most of the countries. Demean everything what is Indian as low grade is how they create a narrative. Chinese were also on the same boat earlier, but they made every one silent by taking over Tibet and later buying all media houses and keeping them on their parole.

EDIT: To a large extent Indians are also responsible for their own condition when it comes to narratives, especially the Indian politicians who can't rise beyond party interest. Only this time they have sent their MPs along with the ruling party to build a narrative, that UNSC seat is really very important now.

 

[Shan]

Demeaning Indians on their success by teasing like a monkey is what every one does. This tactic was implemented by Britishers when they were in India and it has been adopted by most of the countries. Demean everything what is Indian as low grade is how they create a narrative. Chinese were also on the same boat earlier, but they mad every one silent by taking over Tibet and later buying all media houses and keeping them on their parole.

Operational success is for all to see. No respected analyst who writes papers has the nerve to call it otherwise. Pakistani's have been saying they won every war since 1965. The chinese have aided them this time that's all. India needs to wise up and focus on literacy and media education. Tik Tok has aided the PAF big time. Commies do media propaganda well.

 

[screambowl]

The chinese have aided them this time that's all. India needs to wise up and focus on literacy and media eduction. Tik Tok has aided the PAF big time. Commies do media propaganda well.

That bl**dy TikTok is influencing the minds of NRIs and all fake videos are peddling all over it. There I have seen Nepalis ( muslims) doing anti Indian propaganda, Khalistanis have taken over all the stage, it is tiktok which is the adda of all Khalistani propaganda, who are basically Pakistanis in disguise. Many pro Modi people were bitching about cease fire and falling for Pakistani propaganda run by Pakistanis handles and ISI agents on Tiktok targetting Hindu women and changing their mindset as well.

Afghans are countering Pakistanis on operation Sindoor there all the time in favor of India but then they are not very huge in number.

 

[Parthu]

RBE2 AESA prototype was built using APG-81 TRMs: it had 892 TRMs and the improvement in range compared with the PESA was 40%. The serial RBE2 AESA has been produced using European UMS TRMs, with 1048 TRMs and a 100% improvement in range compared with the PESA. We have been able to increase the number and power of the TRMs.

What do you mean by APG-81 TRMs? You mean TRMs imported from the US?

It would be unlikely that they would export the latest TRM design that they use for their in-development radars. Maybe a slightly older generation.

This is a department where every year can mark an improvement.

 

[banthelwa]

Op is technically ongoing, alert levels are slowly coming down.

This is increasingly looking like the climbdown post Balakot.

The reasons for the slow release of information could be:

1. International Pressure - Pak has again worked the situation and extracted a concession where India will not openly embarrass Pak. In return Pak will keep a lid on terror and not cause any incident where India is compelled to act

2. There is a low probability that there is a planned phase 2 which is still on cards and India doesnt want to give out any information. ( I would like this to be true, but it is looking more and more unlikely).

It's just on pause mode. All it is waiting for is a minor mistake from Pakistan to be turned on again. Of course it's also to give time to analyse the phase 1 and accordingly decide and prepare for phase 2 of the operation.

 

[Jaymax]

It's just on pause mode. All it is waiting for is a minor mistake from Pakistan to be turned on again. Of course it's also to give time to analyse the phase 1 and accordingly decide and prepare for phase 2 of the operation.

Why will they? To get shredded again?

The dreams sold to them by Turkey and China were all BS. Drones, Rockets, Missiles didnt hit anything. Air defense did not detect targets leave alone track or engage.

It is so bad that their news channels are resorting to claiming that Pakistanis shot down drones with shotguns/ jumped on drones from trees.

Pak is gearing up for a massive PR, Diplomatic and information campaign. They will crawl out from under the rock once China sells them more snake oil packaged as new systems and planes.

 

[Shan]

Gents, do use Sarvam AI and see how it goes for you. This is a small new thinking model coming out of Bangalore. Decent experience so far. Asked it for the some info about the two systems that aided the IAF and IA in this operation and their unique advantages:

Sarvam AI

We speak India's languages – all 10 (and counting!) of them. From Hindi to Telugu, we're on a mission to make AI truly Indian.

www.sarvam.ai

Prompt:
Please provide the unique advantages of integration of Barak 8 and Akash Missile Defence Systems into Indian Air Defence Network


The Barak 8 (jointly developed by Israel’s IAI and India’s DRDO) and Akash (indigenous Indian system) are two critical components of India’s layered air defense strategy. While both systems are medium-range surface-to-air missiles (MR-SAMs), they offer distinct advantages tailored to different operational needs. Below is a detailed comparison of their unique strengths:


1. Barak 8 (LR-SAM)
Key Advantages:
Multi-Role Capability:

Designed to counter aircraft, missiles, drones, and anti-ship missiles (ASMs).
Effective against cruise missiles (e.g., Russian Kalibr) and loitering drones (e.g., Shahed-136).
Advanced Radar Integration:

Uses the AN/SPY-7 radar (from Israel’s Elta Systems), which provides 360-degree coverage and tracks up to 50 targets simultaneously.
Compatible with NATO-standard networks, enabling seamless integration with other air defense systems (e.g., S-400, Patriot).
High Success Rate:

Proven performance in intercepting low-altitude threats (e.g., drones, short-range missiles) and high-speed targets.
Used by the Indian Navy (on ships like INS Kolkata) and Air Force (land-based batteries).
Longer Range:

70–100 km range (upgraded to 100+ km in Barak 8 MX variant), making it effective for coastal and naval defense.
Proven in Combat:

Successfully intercepted Houthi missiles during the Yemen conflict and tested against cruise missile threats in joint exercises.

2. Akash (SAM)
Key Advantages:
Mobility and Rapid Deployment:

Mobile launcher systems allow quick repositioning (crucial for countering fast-moving threats).
Deployed in high-altitude and mountainous regions (e.g., Siachen Glacier, Ladakh).
Dual-Pulse Rocket Motor:

Enhances maneuverability and accuracy, enabling interception of agile targets like drones and fighter jets.
Cost-Effectiveness:

Indigenously developed (under India’s IGMDP), reducing reliance on foreign suppliers.
Lower per-unit cost compared to imported systems (e.g., S-300V4).
High Hit Probability:

80–90% success rate in intercepting aircraft and drones (tested during the Kargil War and Balakot airstrike).
Upgraded Versions:

Akash Prime: Extended range (25–30 km), improved radar (Rajendra TED), and better electronic counter-countermeasures (ECCM).
Role in Layered Defense:

Fills the short-to-medium range gap (20–30 km) between shorter-range systems (e.g., Trishul) and longer-range systems (e.g., S-400).

3. Comparative Analysis​

Range	70–100+ km (MX variant)	25–30 km (Akash Prime)
Mobility	Fixed/ship-mounted	Highly mobile
Target Priority	Cruise missiles, drones, ASMs	Aircraft, drones, helicopters
Radar Integration	AN/SPY-7 (NATO-compatible)	Rajendra TED (indigenous)
Cost	Higher (imported components)	Lower (indigenous production)
Unique Edge	Multi-role, naval compatibility	Rapid deployment, cost-effective

[th]

Feature​

[/th][th]

Barak 8​

[/th][th]

Akash​

[/th]​

4. Strategic Impact on India’s Defense
Barak 8:

Critical for coastal defense (e.g., protecting naval assets from Chinese/Pakistani missiles).
Enhances interoperability with Western systems (e.g., Patriot, THAAD).
Akash:

Indigenous pride: Symbolizes India’s self-reliance in missile tech.
Ideal for border defense (e.g., LoC, Himalayan borders) due to mobility and rugged terrain adaptability.
Complementary Roles:

Barak 8 handles longer-range threats (cruise missiles, drones).
Akash provides quick, localized defense against aircraft and drones.

5. Limitations
Barak 8:

High operational costs and reliance on Israeli components.
Limited effectiveness against ballistic missiles (unlike S-400).
Akash:

Shorter range compared to Western systems (e.g., Patriot).
Requires frequent maintenance in harsh environments.

Conclusion
The Barak 8 and Akash represent India’s balanced approach to air defense: leveraging foreign tech (Barak 8) for multi-role versatility and indigenous systems (Akash) for cost-effective, mobile defense. Together, they address diverse threats—from cruise missiles to drones—while supporting India’s goal of Atmanirbhar Bharat (self-reliance). Their integration with NATO and Russian systems underscores India’s strategic agility in a contested geopolitical landscape.

 

[screambowl]

One shall not forget that Naval and Army up-gradations are required as well.

A proper guided MBRL can also work as SEAD if the radar has been spotted. That would be cheaper and will reduce pressure on airforce. This is why there is integrated rocket force.

 

[RationalGuy]

A vet on their forum claimed "minor splinter" damage to one C-130.

We clearly saw footage of a C130 or at least a part of it literally on fire. Idt that's minor damage lol.

 

[screambowl]

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/erdogan-pakistan-pm-sharif-meet-istanbul-sunday-2025-05-25/

Turkiye’s Erdogan meets Pakistan PM in Istanbul weeks after India conflict

President Erdogan holds talks with Prime Minister Sharif as they strive to boost ties.

www.aljazeera.com

Erdogan told Sharif it was in the interest of Turkey and Pakistan to increase solidarity in education, intelligence sharing and technological support in the fight against “terrorism”, Turkiye president’s office said.

The two countries would strive to boost cooperation, particularly in defence, energy and transportation, Erdogan’s office said on Sunday.

What kind of terrorism they are talking about? It is India which is fighting terrorism, and obviously Turkey will continue the defence cooperation with Pakistan.

 

[South block]

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/erdogan-pakistan-pm-sharif-meet-istanbul-sunday-2025-05-25/

Turkiye’s Erdogan meets Pakistan PM in Istanbul weeks after India conflict

President Erdogan holds talks with Prime Minister Sharif as they strive to boost ties.

www.aljazeera.com

What kind of terrorism they are talking about? It is India which is fighting terrorism, and obviously Turkey will continue the defence cooperation with Pakistan.

India will continue to strengthen its military cooperation with European Christian countries...... Specially Orthodox Christian nations.... Two of which are neighbour to Turkey & both have very colourful history with them.

 

[screambowl]

India will continue to strengthen its military cooperation with European Christian countries...... Specially Orthodox Christian nations.... Two of which are neighbour to Turkey & both have very colourful history with them.

I don't know but I have a gut feeling that something major is going on in Pakistan

1. Second major terror strike in J&K during Munir's period, he is continuously pursuing these tactics
2. Skirmish with India with IWT on hold
3. Asim Munir becoming Field Marshall
4. Pakistan suddenly begins investments in Crypto by allotting 2.4 giga Watt for mining
5. Second year of coalition of 16th national assembly with the same PM

 

[Shan]

 

[randomradio]

I'm talking about the small HBJ under the nozzles. It doesn't exist on any Rafale except ours.

A new jammer array requires deep integration with Spectra to ensure it doesn't interfere with other operations. That's an example of a major change to the EW suite.

That's part of SPECTRA, it wasn't uniquely developed for India. The French are operating the mid-range model, we chose the luxury model with all bells and whistles, including extras they did not develop like the towed decoy and Litening pod.

The F-35I's plug and play model is even more intrusive, and even that's not considered major changes to the core avionics. So, no.

I can't either if you think the substrate generates its own power.

It's funny when you put out statements when you obviously have no clue what you're talking about.

Either way, it would require us to order more.

Sure, depends on requirements. But AMCA requirement is 250. A stopgap could be 2 or 3 squadrons. For F-35 to be bought, AMCA should fail in the next 4 years. If AMCA fails at the LSP stage, we will end up with more options to choose from. So my point remains unchanged. When AMCA fails, we will most likely be in the 2030s by default anyway, whether it fails in the prototype stage or the LSP stage.

That's why you need the AEW input. It tells your other assets where to look, way before any fighter can. Even if the fighter were flying 200 km ahead of the AEW.

And no, fighter FCR can't generate a firing solution at 300 km against fighter-sized targets. That's hogwash. What you can do is to use the AEW's low-resolution tracks & the FCRs' detection range (among however many other assets are available to paint that target) to create a generalized idea as to where the Meteor needs to go. After that it's up to the missile's own seeker to find it once its in that vicinity - unless we can give it better & better info through the datalink.

Meteor cannot function independently outside this networked battlespace. If all it has to rely on is its own launch platform's FCR, its Ph/Pk is gonna be sorry as hell. UNLESS, you significantly reduce the engagement envelope to ranges within which an FCR can manage fire control, that means around 100-150 km max for a respectable Ph/Pk.

At that point, the Meteor becomes a less enticing option to use compared to a MICA which can do 80% of that job for way lesser cost.

AWACS can do that by default with the Rafale anyway. You wanted AWACS to cue Meteor, not happening. You want AWACS to cue Rafale towards target, already possible.

I can't argue with something this dense.

I definitely am.

Four FCRs won't be seeing anything any one of them couldn't (other than increasing FoV & no. of targets tracked, but AEW is far better for that anyway). Unless you ask one of them to fly a suicide mission ahead of the rest, with radar on full blast & flying outside the cover of friendly EW assets, and use his inputs to fire your Meteors from way back.

Needless to say, we don't follow such insane tactics. And we don't have the assets (CCAs) yet to do something like that in a survivable manner.

Cooperative tactics sans AEW support is not how 4.5 gens are supposed to function.

When we have AESA, we can too. And when we get later gen AESAs, then we move into a whole new level.

If our Rafale is unable to make use of inputs from Netra or Phalcon (whatever the reason may be), then that still means we aren't in a position yet to make full use of the Meteor's capability.

So Rafale is not integrated with BNET. Rafale is not intergrated with Meteor. Meteor is not integrated with Netra. And now Rafale is not integrated with Netra.

Seems like they forgot that they can plug 4 Rafales together and generate way more data than the GlobalEye can.

Yep, but too bad for them they can't travel to Reunion like that.

That's not surprising. Virupaksha will be GaN-based. That means it would be more efficient than the decades-old GaAs APG-77.

Changing your argument once again? You said TRM requires power. I pointed out there's far more in play here 'cause you are not supposed to get more range if you have more power, if we go by your logic. But at least you're getting there.

In comparison, the difference between RBE-2AA & APG-81 is minor. Mostly a result of incremental improvements in TRM design over the years, than the result of inclusion of some revolutionary underlying tech.

What's this comparison with RBE2-AA?

Nope. We are comparing APG-81 with MRFA's offerings, those are RBE2-XG and ECRS Mk2. But more importantly, we are comparing APG-81 to APG-85, because you want the IAF to enter the 2030s to fight the Chinese with a crappy old radar that doesn't work against the Chinese.

Let me remind you what the topic is. We need all the B4 capabilities of the F-35 tested before we decide to induct it. And we need the B4 to be ready before that happens. So any F-35 decision we make will be post-2030, not in 2025, as you are hoping, and for the sake of a stopgap capability that doesn't work. Which means, we need this new APG-85 radar, and we will need the new computer and engine to power it. Nothing's happening before they are achieved.

What is that expectation based on? Because you are suggesting that the Chinese are 4-5 years ahead of the Americans, and ~10 years ahead of the French in this department.

Americans and French, even the UK, are pretty much on par, as I said, the Americans are just pushing ahead early, before the jet is ready to handle it. This allows time to improve the radar by fielding it earlier as the jet becomes operational.

What you need to push new AESA into production is money and programs that can handle such technology. The Chinese are ahead in both aspects. PLAAF introduced GaN with the later batches of J-16. And both J-16 and J-20 have gone up by a level with new GaN TRM designs, especially helped by the fact that they are producing 100+ of each every year.

The French skipped out on GaN for F4 due to the low production scale.

Anyway, we can't buy things the Chinese have definite counters for, that's why F-35 and Su-57 are out. That's why our reliance on unorthodox designs like the Rafale's that the Chinese are not prepared to deal with or the need to buy on-par/superior 6th gen designs like NGAD, B-21, and Mig-41.

They're introducing it when it's ready.

Even they are not foolish enough to say that.

I'm talking about the gap between RBE-2AA and APG-81.

No one is. You brought it up because you are trying to hold on to any pointless argument you can.

RBE2-AA and APG-81 are now 20+ year technologies. They are pointless beyond 2030. Recall that AESA generation thing I talked about? Even the Rafale F4's radar has moved to the middle of that list.

If you want analogies. If APG-81 is like 64 nm, the new Rafale radar is like 16 nm, the old PLAAF GaN radars are like 7 nm and the latest radars for MRFA, J-20, and F-35 are like 3/2nm.

To sum things up: AMCA will not end up like LCA outside of short delays. We are not gonna make kneejerk purchases for a 5-year stopgap just 'cause you personally are scared of the J-35 which the IAF is not. The F-35 and Su-57 are not the answers to the obviously superior PLAAF. IAF is gonna stick to their LCA, MRFA, and AMCA plan, alongside Ghatak and improving their IADS. And if any stopgap is chosen, it will be done in the mid-2030s for a 6th gen jet to make up for the gap between 2040 and 2060, if they think AMCA/AMCA-NG are not up to the job.

Anyway, this is the last on this pointless topic.

 

[randomradio]

Pakistan to hike defense spending in FY26 budget to counter India’s ‘hegemonistic designs’ — minister

Get the latest breaking news and headlines from the largest Arab News website. Get world news, sport news, business news, entertainment, lifestyle, video and photos.

www.arabnews.com

In response to a question about media reports China was fast-tracking delivery of its advanced J-35A fifth-generation stealth fighters to Pakistan, with the first batch expected by early 2026, planning minister Ahsan said:

“Pakistan’s fighter jets have already done well against India and the country will do anything it can to make it’s defenses stronger.”

The finance ministry declined to comment on a planned hike in defense spending but an official privy to budget talks within the government and with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) said:

“We are discussing all the issues including Pakistan’s revenues and defense with the IMF but nothing has been finalized yet.”

An IMF official said the lender did not comment on any country’s defense budget.

An IMF mission led by Nathan Porter visited Pakistan last week to discuss the country’s new fiscal plan but returned without reaching an agreement.

“We will continue discussions toward agreeing over the authorities’ FY26 budget over the coming days,” the Washington-based lender said in a statement on May 24.

The media wing of the Pakistan army declined to comment on the issue immediately.

Best news ever. Throw more money away, Pakistan.

 

[banthelwa]

Why will they? To get shredded again?

They will. They are bound by the orders of Allah to carry out this jihad. The only question is when will they.

 

[randomradio]

Op Sindoor is on Hot Standby. Its not over yet and can go into full Spectrum war on very short notice.

So it could go either way. All-out or fizzle out.