Operation Sindoor: India Strikes Terroist Camps Inside Pakitsan

Ginvincible said:
There is no point in expanding the scope of this conflict to other nations. India's stated goal is to punish Pakistan for harboring terrorists and to degrade their ability & morale to continue harboring them.

For better of worse, India should not stray too far off that path. India's aspirations are long term and global. It needs to come out of this having achieved its strategic objectives on the ground and in people's perceptions.
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Oh, they are more than welcome to try.

We would prefer it too. It will be an invitation for India to interfere in MENA. We will soon reach that point anyway.
 
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vstol Jockey said:
Read about War of attrition before hammer strike. India is doing just that. Our next stage of escalation will be complete blockade of Pak airspace, naval space and ground space.
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Need of the hour. No supply , destroy mil asset . Finally it will come to knees.
 
Ginvincible said:
Having a "good guy" image has far better value beyond limiting immediate support from some GCC states. It shows that India is a mature and responsible power and that is important for India's real objective. India’s goal here isn’t to destroy Pakistan—it’s to stay focused on economic growth and securing a stable future. Going full-on escalation mode might feel satisfying in the short term, but it risks making India seem less stable and make it seem like a less responsible power. India needs investment buy in from the world.

India is clearly thinking about the aftermath of this conflict, and has been from the start.

That’s why they’ve been careful about avoiding Pakistani military infrastructure unless directly provoked. Think about it—how many countries would strike inside hostile territory, go after militants being shielded by a formal army, and still try to avoid hitting that army?

Even the way India is handling communication—slow, steady updates instead of emotional outbursts—shows they’re not just reacting. Meanwhile, across the border, it’s chaos with leaders giving interviews and saying whatever comes to mind.
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No major disagreements, but don't discount the gibs pakees have got from gulf especially in difficult times like 1970s (see below )when India was under immense stress because of their oil embargo. They even get immense zakat gibs from gulf for medrassahs which in a way alleviate pressure on Pak govt budgets for education and social security, so they can spend more on defence.
Asterion Moloc said:
China is no US, they wont provide free lunch. Even the VT4s were paid by Saudis as said by one Pak member who knows more on armored stuff in old PDF, and apparently even J-10s initial payment came from gulf and rest is loan, with all these arrangements PAF bought just 20 odd J-10s but they will absorb 200 J-10s suddenly🤣

And btw this is not something new for pak,

around 1970s after Yom-Kippur war, mohemmdan countries embargoed oil and jacked up prices, India was under serious strain at that time, while Pak was getting half a billion dollar aid in just one year, in present rate that equals 6billion USD, and if you compare the aid as percent of percapita income it will be even more aid required in present day, like $7 bump at a percapita lf $110 in 1975, is like 6% bump in percapita income just because of aid, if similar percent in pakistan percapita has to occur in 2025 withe a percapita of ~$1600, it requires a $100 bump percapita and for the population of 240 million, it gives 24 Billion USD of aid in just a year.
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By Eric Pace Special to The New York Times
Aug. 17, 1975
Pakistan Is Bolstered by Aid From Other Moslem Nations

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan —The learning of Arabic is being encouraged in Pakistan. Editions of the Koran marred by typographical errors are barred from bookshops. Airline employes, announcing flight plans, stipulate, “If Allah wills.”

Such devotion to the faith and culture of Islam is earning Pakistan rich rewards: During the 12 months ending June 30 other Moslem countries gave her more than $500‐million in aid from their oil profits.

That is the equivalent of more than $7 for each Pakistani, a great boon in a country whose per capita income is put at $80 to $110 a year.

The effect of the aid, along with assistance from the United States and other sources, has been to cushion the impact of the rising prices Pakistan must pay for oil and other imports, of her runaway population growth and of the global economic doldrums.

The money has helped to keep Pakistan far better off economically than floundering India and has made it easier for her to indulge in little luxuries such as the 10 Mirage reconnaissance jet, planes that she ordered from France last month in a $75‐million deferred‐payment deal.

The close ties with other Islamic states were reflected in a typical recent message, beginning “excellency and dear brother,” that Prime Minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto addressed to President Anwar el‐Sadat of Egypt, with greetings to “the fraternal Egyptian people” and a denunciation of “Zionist aggression.”

Economically troubled Egypt was not among Pakistan's benefactors, but her stanch and open handed supporter, Saudi Arabia, was, to the tune of $35‐million in credits. Libya lent Pakistan $97‐million, Abu Dhabi $108‐million, Qatar $11‐million and Kuwait $5‐million.

A further $251‐million came from Iran, the Moslem but nonArab nation that adjoins Pakistan on the west and which, like Pakistan, has been stressing Islamic solidarity and ties with the Arab world.

All the loans are at low interest rates, to be paid in eight to 40 years.

Though many Pakistanis see the aid from the oil‐producing nations as a natural outgrowth of Islamic ties, such aid was relatively scant before the impact of the price rises that began late in 1973, before Mr. Bhutto began stressing those ties.

Under the military regime that preceded Mr. Bhutto, an official observed, “there was a sort of cultural gap—the force that Islam represents was not fully perceived.”

Nowadays Prime Minister Bhutto takes pains over such matters as the naming of ambassadors to key Moslem nations. High‐level contacts with Islamic leaders have become frequent, notably at the Islamic conference held in Pakistan in February, 1974. At that conference Mr. Bhutto, stressing Pakistan's common cause with the Arabs, said the Israelis were “intoxicated with their militarism and reeking with ethnological arrogance.”

Pakistan makes other gestures of solidarity with the Arabs. The Pakistani press, which is responsive to the Government's views, has endorsed recent Arab criticism of Israel's administration of the tomb of Abraham at Hebron, on the Israeli‐occupied West Bank of the Jordan River.

“There seems to be no end to Israeli vandalism and the Zionist state's persistence in taking step after step deliberately aimed at causing grave provocation to the entire Moslem world,” the Karachi Morning News said in an editorial a day after Moslem worshipers rioted at the tomb to protest an Israeli proposal to divide it between Jews and Moslems.

Pakistani officials are also at pains to stress their cultural links with Iran. Persian poets such as Omar Khayyam are quoted and revered. The Prime Minister, on a recent visit to Iran, so admired an ornate gate that he is having one like it put up to adorn a Moslem shrine. In June the two nations signed a voluminous cultural‐exchange agreement.

In addition strategic interests underlie Iran's support for Pakistan: The Shah of Iran feels uncomfortable surrounded by the Soviet Union on the north, Soviet‐influenced Arab nations on the west and Soviet‐armed Afghanistan on the east. Accordingly, Iran has buttressed her other eastern neighbor, Pakistan, which has close ties with China.

The relatively liberal Pakistani élite sees no conflict between the Government's ties with China's secular, anticlerical regime and the grass‐roots Moslem faith of the Pakistani populace.

It was taken for granted that the Minister of State for Railways, Mian Muhammad Atta Ullah, should make a speech here saying that it was the duty of every Pakistani Moslem to learn Arabic to be able to read the Koran.

The Ministry of Religious Affairs reported that the sale of four editions of the Koran had been banned under a 1974 law after they had been found to contain numerous typographical errors. Legal proceedings are expected to be brought against a luckless Lahore concern that recently brought out a Koran containing 340 errors.
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And I think Pak is more long term threat to India than China can ever be, just the geography and population spread of China and Pak are very different. Pak is just across plains of Punjab while china is across highest mountain range with their population concentrated on eastern seaboard. Similarly, Pak pop is exploding, their TFR is more than 3 while India's already below replacement and China's is hovering around 1. So, by 2050 you have ~400 mil pakees in extreme arid region and water stressed, they will swarm India along with Bangladeshis (which are already in India)
 
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tutioton said:
I hope we don't escalate any further and end this quickly to concentrate on economy. chinks will try to open a new front and then we will be in big problem fighting on 2 fronts.
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Yeah? Decimating Pak will not hurt our economy at all. It just about political will. Suffice to say, Pak has so far shown no signs of being able to fight a modern war - it's days are numbered if it keeps trying to find a face saver where there isn't one.
 
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tutioton said:
I hope we don't escalate any further and end this quickly to concentrate on economy. chinks will try to open a new front and then we will be in big problem fighting on 2 fronts.
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They won't interfere or intervene. They have bigger fish to fry in the east.

If they get themselves hyphenated with india, their future is dead on arrival. And it's bad for the both of us, so it won't happen.
 
Defc0n said:
Yeah? Decimating Pak will not hurt our economy at all. It just about political will. Suffice to say, Pak has so far shown no signs of being able to fight a modern war - it's days are numbered if it keeps trying to find a face saver where there isn't one.
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no. Pakistan will find a way to survive just like it has been doing since the past 75 years. It will continue to get loans from foreign countries, though insurgency will be a big problem. It will become similar to Syria/Iraq where most of the territory is under insurgent control, but the country itself will find some way to survive.

best solution for us is to withdraw right now for economy concentration. We killed their 100 terorist so it's more than enough. Main thing is we have to improve our air force and avoid 2 front war.
 
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