Nuclear MAD Scenario and possible effects in Indo Pak China context
- Thread starter VCheng
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How many of them died few years after?
And during a war, a wounded or sick person is more of a burden for a country than a death... It may be a collateral effect searched.
The effect was only felt in long term. Short term effect was not known. Hence, they used to test like this. Long term cancer can be known only few years later. Even immediate sickness was not commonly observed
Since war relies on immediate action, it is possible to bear radiation and not fall sick.
"He's famous? How? If I do not know about him, how can he be famous?"
Famous or not, no man's words can be taken as commandments. Unless the words are based on scientific research and absolute in nature, everything must be verified before accepting.
Also, there are many people who have written many things. Just because they are famous doesn't mean you copy their quotes and simply shove it on someone's face. I too can start quoting hundreds of generals, vedas, gita etc. Let us not do such quoting business here. If a discussion has to happen, it must be original
Let us not make meaningless comments and make others waste time reading them. If you continue doing so, then eventually I will stop reading your comments altogether. Why lose credibility by making pointless comments? Better keep quiet
Dear Sir, Have you ever considered that the lines above would apply to your own posts with the greatest relevance?
Sir.
I recall the words of Issac Asimov, an author I admire and one who reminds me of my childhood years.
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding it's way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge'.
It remains a bane of all true democracies, alas, India being amongst that select group. Need I say, "Beware the man of a single book". Thomas Aquinas just about summed it up.
Sir.
There is always an alternative explanation for the condition so described by you. Perhaps the Bear was suffering from a severe bout of alopecia? Coming back to the specifics. It is best to avoid conclusions, the sequence of posts are not specific yet understood by those who were meant to understand.
Our member in question fits the gentleman to who Winston Churchill referred when he said
"Occasionally he stumbled over the truth but hastily picked himself up and hurried on as if nothing has happened"
You can surely seek further enlightment across threads, reading a veritable collection of posts by the concerned member.
Sir, I have hovered, and I prefer to not post. As it is not my burden to straighten everyone. What I learn from observing, is what I satisfies me. But this member has been posting a brilliant sequence of ignorance as gospel truth, and needs an emphatic rebuttal.
Do note his brilliant posts on Religion in another thread. I suggest not to have coffee or some other hot beverage while reading, you just might choke.
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Sir.
A very nice video. What makes you think that the video itself, or the program of Battle Inoculation with troops as conducted by both US and USSR in the immediate period after the end of World War 2 and Korean War, is something uniquely discovered by yourself?
Now, we come back to the topic at hand - your claims. Of radiological effects being. a 'myth'?
Can you give me the incidence rate of skin, prostate cancer in the 17/18 years old service personnel involved as 'guinea pigs' in these tests? Can you give me the incidence of their progenies dying of genetic deformities, malformations or cancer and second generation incidence of abnormality at childbirth or Congenital Abnormalities of Genetic Association?
You keep deflecting. Better to answer specifics.
For the bold part, are you published? Can you explain the basis for your retort there, is it because your war philosophy is being taught across various military schools of this world? Or do you think that the three mentioned gentlemen were a class act by themselves and fools and the world with them?
Sir.
Mark Twain summed up the issue at hand rather succinctly.
In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case, gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second hand from other non-examiners, whose opinion about them were not worth a brass farthing.
Our own Mr. "Bean" Rowan Atkinson was more to the point
To criticize a person for their race is manifestly irrational and ridiculous, but to criticize their religion, that is a right. That is a freedom. The freedom to criticize ideas, any ideas - even if they are sincerely held beliefs - is one of the fundamental freedom of society. A law which attempts to say that you can criticize and ridicule ideas as long as the are not religious ideas is a very peculiar law indeed.
This excellent point raised by Mr Atkinson, resonates with what faces the world at large and our societies in specific. I gather that this is what you subtly refer to here, sir?
If that be the case, the wise will agree that what the man does not understand, he fears. And out of his fear, he does not feel the need to explore it further. And the cycle gets repeated.
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Amusing definition, (especially the supernatural part)
never thought about philosophical nature of war, all that goes out the window once 7.62 start whizzing past your ear.
Dear Sir.
That is a moot question.
To quote the venerable William Shakespeare: Who is it that can tell me who I am?
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."
The great man has brilliance at every step. So:
“What do I fear? Myself? There’s none else by.
Richard loves Richard; that is, I and I.
Is there a murderer here? No. Yes, I am.
Then fly! What, from myself? Great reason why:
Lest I revenge. What, myself upon myself?
Alack, I love myself. Wherefore? For any good
That I myself have done unto myself?
O, no! Alas, I rather hate myself
For hateful deeds committed by myself.
I am a villain. Yet I lie. I am not.
Fool, of thyself speak well. Fool, do not flatter:
My conscience hath a thousand several tongues,
And every tongue brings in a several tale,
And every tale condemns me for a villain.
Perjury, perjury, in the highest degree;
Murder, stern murder, in the direst degree;
All several sins, all used in each degree,
Throng to the bar, crying all, “Guilty! guilty!”
I shall despair. There is no creature loves me,
And if I die no soul will pity me.
And wherefore should they, since that I myself
Find in myself no pity to myself?”
― William Shakespeare, Richard III
An extremely private and self proclaimed erudite personality at your service sir.
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Yes, I have. That is why I try to give references and examples of original events. I never said that I am absolutely correct. But that doesn't mean I will just take random quotes of people as acceptable arguments. Speak with reason, logic, evidence or counter examples as far as possible.
I am not the one deflecting. I am merely replying. If the question is deflecting from this thread, my reply will be similarly deflecting too.
I never claimed to have bested any moderators but have claimed to have been kicked out of an islamist forum by a jihadi moderator who was incapable of reasoning. But, I digress.
Coming back to this thread-
List of nuclear weapons tests - Wikipedia
Total tests - 2000+. 520 of them were atmospheric tests which in many cases included more than 1 detonation. You can also see how many USSR and USA tests happened.
Evidence that genetic disorders don't occur because of radiation - Psychology is where real radiation risks lie | The Japan Times
Increased risk of cancer is true. But, that risk is over several years and even decades. But, this is not a lasting effect as preached. Nor do people die or get sick immediately.
Considering that war has even more dangers of infection, limb damage, dirty water, human excreta, diseases, exposure to toxic heavy metals like lead dust (bullets fired) or chemicals in missiles, ammunition etc, nuclear radiation is only part of the small risks. I never advised anyone to simply enjoy nuclear radiation by taking a walk in places of explosion. I am just saying that the radiation risk is over exaggerated and can be regarded with the same attitude as other risks of war.
Congenital malformation - that is the article I quoted. It says that research was conducted and found no conclusive evidence of nukes being related to genetic defect over generation (malformations over generations is also genetic defect). It also says that cancer risk of the current generation increases. So, here is the answer - no generational malformation happens because of nuclear bombs. Radiation sickness does happen as well as increased cancer risk, most important -thyroid cancer. But they are only for the current generation.
I will give one example of pesticide effects on malformations - endosulfan - Endosulfan - Wikipedia
More examples of organophosphate pesticides causing deformation can be googled. It is impossible to have comparative studies as people were not deliberately exposed to either pesticides or nukes. The control over dosage, wind etc prevent a proper comparison
About 1000 explosion, it is by USA and USSR, not in USA. I concede here. Again, it was a total of 520+ over ground tests, and many of them were on islands. I concede here too.
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There can be situations where increased understanding, and not a lack of it, actually creates its own fear due to a realization of the consequences of what has just been studied and understood. And that might just apply to the topic in this thread.
MAD as we know is the biggest lie that has been spread about in the world after nuke fallout effects. The world will soon see a nuke war, not between India and Pakistan but between some other nations. The so called nuke fallout is very different when exploded on ground which results in minimum loss of life with destruction of ground under it and midair burst which results in largest number of casualties. The midair blast results in minimum nuke fallout. the radiation levels even with a megaton blast reduce to acceptable human levels within 15 days. Pakistanis have been a bunch of idiots for all these years and their army reads pulp and porn fiction as truth to issue warnings. They have been been completely mislead by their nuke scientists into believing that TNWs will be able to stop Indian IBGs dead in their tracks. A 5Kt TNW will not be able to destroy a tank just 1kms away from it. Forget about stopping an IBG which will move on a frontage of over 10-15kms. Mid air blast of TNW will have no effect on any Tank or BMP of IBGs if they are air tight and designed to withstand NBCD warfare. Now if we need to stop over eight IBGs thrusting from various places with such a frontage, how many TNWs will you need to stop even half of them and what will happen to you as a nation when India retaliates with city busters? In another forum , I had posted a complete diagram and way to take out 75% of Pak population in few seconds. All our missiles have manoeuverable warheads and ability to strike using different trajectories which allow same capability as that of MRSI of arty. Even Arihant can fire its missiles in such a manner to have all its missiles strike and nukes explode within two seconds within the strike diagram it lays down.
please read these documents in totality. The first one has 24 pages.
The Blast Wave | Effects of Nuclear Weapons | atomicarchive.com
Effects of nuclear explosions - Wikipedia