Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

[Killbot]

So IS F 18 certain to win MMRCA.2.0

Not really. Rafale is still very much in the picture despite the recent complications. (For MMRCA only). And then there is the F15EX; though I’m not sure Boeing has offered it. @vstol Jockey ?
And then there is the question of the MMRCA 2.0 itself; imo it’ll be scrapped due to lack of funds.. I would have thought IAF would go for 36 more Rafales, but not so sure now. They (IAF) are up shitcreek in the present situation...

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

Not really. Rafale is still very much in the picture despite the recent complications. (For MMRCA only). And then there is the F15EX; though I’m not sure Boeing has offered it. @vstol Jockey ?
And then there is the question of the MMRCA 2.0 itself; imo it’ll be scrapped due to lack of funds.. I would have thought IAF would go for 36 more Rafales, but not so sure now. They (IAF) are up shitcreek in the present situation...

I have a feeling that we are going to Rely
More and More on Missiles rather than
Aircraft

That is what China also does

China has No High Tech aircraft

They rely on large Numbers of Low Tech Aircraft and Missiles

We have a large number of Air to Surface and Surface to Surface Programmes going on

If we can integrate them with Sukhois
And Tejas , We wont need MMRCA 2 .0

However atleast 18 More Rafales should be ordered ,36 is too less

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

So IS F 18 certain to win MMRCA.2.0

My point of view is that the F-18 is a joke.

 

[Killbot]

I have a feeling that we are going to Rely
More and More on Missiles rather than
Aircraft

That is what China also does

China has No High Tech aircraft

They rely on large Numbers of Low Tech Aircraft and Missiles

We have a large number of Air to Surface and Surface to Surface Programmes going on

If we can integrate them with Sukhois
And Tejas , We wont need MMRCA 2 .0

However atleast 18 More Rafales should be ordered ,36 is too less

True. But we can integrate only when Sukhois are upgraded and MWF is inducted.. So post 2028-29 only.. Rven MMRCA is gonna happen in that timeframe. Till then IAF is in deep shit.

My point of view is that the F-18 is a joke.

But relations with murica are absolutely not.

 

[vstol Jockey]

@vstol Jockey continuation from Rafale thread
Sir,asper you SH18 is gonna win IN tender,but do SH can take off with full load using existing F414 engine?
What is your opinion,will IAF choose SH18 too?

F-18 with 116KN engine can do it with full load from vicky and IAC-1.

So IS F 18 certain to win MMRCA.2.0

yes as it will add commonality of fleet for IAF & IN and RAuAF already flies them and so do many other countries.

Not really. Rafale is still very much in the picture despite the recent complications. (For MMRCA only). And then there is the F15EX; though I’m not sure Boeing has offered it. @vstol Jockey ?
And then there is the question of the MMRCA 2.0 itself; imo it’ll be scrapped due to lack of funds.. I would have thought IAF would go for 36 more Rafales, but not so sure now. They (IAF) are up shitcreek in the present situation...

We will see a repeat order of about 54 Rafale but the major order of 114 fighters for the IAF and 60+ for IN will go to F-18.

 

[Killbot]

F-18 with 116KN engine can do it with full load from vicky and IAC-1.


yes as it will add commonality of fleet for IAF & IN and RAuAF already flies them and so do many other countries.



We will see a repeat order of about 54 Rafale but the major order of 114 fighters for the IAF and 60+ for IN will go to F-18.

Yaaay IAF zoo has so many exotic species.. In all seriousness, both army and AF are gonna have a major logistics issue in the coming years...

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

My point of view is that the F-18 is a joke.

We need US help for a Two Front War

It is as simple as that

 

[Hydra]

True. But we can integrate only when Sukhois are upgraded and MWF is inducted.. So post 2028-29 only.. Rven MMRCA is gonna happen in that timeframe. Till then IAF is in deep shit.

But relations with murica are absolutely not.

Exactly,USA relationship is not a joke.
By the way f18 may be a joke infront of Rafale,but EA18 Growlers are not. And definitely AGM158c too,which we will get from uncle Sam along with f18.

 

[vstol Jockey]

Exactly,USA relationship is not a joke.
By the way f18 may be a joke infront of Rafale,but EA18 Growlers are not. And definitely AGM158c too,which we will get from uncle Sam along with f18.

with one the best AESA radars with its much longer range. Plus we will be allowed to add our own weapons on it.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

Exactly,USA relationship is not a joke.
By the way f18 may be a joke infront of Rafale,but EA18 Growlers are not. And definitely AGM158c too,which we will get from uncle Sam along with f18.

Dont count your CHICKENS before they Hatch.

 

[randomradio]

What led to your sudden change of opinion for the f35??

It's not a change in opinion. All the Teens, without exception, suck.

If only the SH is found viable on the first 2 carriers, then it makes sense to simply switch over to the F-35B instead, since it's equally capable in terms of performance, but has significantly superior electronics and capabilities.

Basically the first option is Rafale, with the second being the F-35B.

We can buy 2 F-35Cs as well, in order to help the IN develop the next carrier.

 

[randomradio]

IN not interested in SE designs.

They may change their minds if given a performance briefing.

Anyway what do you think if the IN is willing to accept SE?

 

[vstol Jockey]

They may change their minds if given a performance briefing.

Anyway what do you think if the IN is willing to accept SE?

Thery may agree but only for a very limited numbers and that too mainly for shore based roles. I have been able to create some thumb rules of mine while working on MSA and the latest is, "The maximum T/O weight(in Tons) from Vicky = max thrust+ (max thrust/3)". As long as your MTOW meets this criteria, You will always be fine and better with IAC-1. so for Rafale we have total thrust of 150kn and so its max ramp exit weight for Vicky from the longest station will be 150000/9.81+ (150000/3)/9.81=20387 kgs or roughly 20.5 tons. so for rafale to take off with full load from Vicky, it will need 90KN thrust engines. Calculating same for SH F18-3 with 2x116KN engines we get a figure of 31529kgs and this figure is higher than the structural limit of 30 tons of SH F18-3.
The F414EPE engine is actually fit to hit 128KN thrust but has been limited to 116KN as the intakes of SH can take in only 85kgs/sec airflow and this the requirement for the present thrust levels of this engine.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

with one the best AESA radars

• DOT&E reported on APG-79 radar IOT&E [initial operational test and evaluation] in FY07, assessing it as not operationally effective or suitable due to significant deficiencies in tactical performance, reliability, and BIT functionality.

• The Navy conducted APG-79 radar FOT&E [follow-on test and evaluation] in FY09 in conjunction with Software Configuration Set (SCS) H4E Software Qualification Test (SQT). The Navy's Commander, Operational Test and Evaluation Force subsequently reported that significant deficiencies remained for both APG-79 AESA performance and suitability; DOT&E concurred with this assessment.

• The APG-79 AESA radar demonstrated marginal improvements since the previous FOT&E period and provides improved performance relative to the legacy APG-73 radar. However, operational testing does not demonstrate a statistically significant difference in mission accomplishment between F/A-18E/F aircraft equipped with AESA and those equipped with the legacy radar.

• Full development of AESA electronic warfare capability remains deferred to later software builds.

Much longer range

AN/APG-79 AESA - Missile Defense Advocacy Alliance

Quick Facts Role and Mobility Instantaneous tracking and multi-target tracking, and Air-mobile Frequency X-Band Range 150 km Air Defense Interceptor Systems F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Boeing EA-18G Growler Targets Air-to-air and ground-to-air missiles, Aircraft, and UAVs Status/Exports Operational...

missiledefenseadvocacy.org

150 km....

 

[Hydra]

Dont count your CHICKENS before they Hatch.

Its so certain that we will get AGM158c if we go for SH or F15EX.

IN not interested in SE designs.


Yes. They have offered all the variants of F-18 blk3 including growlers.

What is this "SE" means?pardon my ignorance

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Its so certain that we will get AGM158c if we go for SH or F15EX.

If you want AGM158c, then start with P8I

 

[vstol Jockey]

Its so certain that we will get AGM158c if we go for SH or F15EX.

What is this "SE" means?pardon my ignorance

SE=Single engine. TE=Twin Engine.

 

[Killbot]

If you want AGM158c, then start with P8I

Already have

 

[vstol Jockey]

Much longer range

AN/APG-79 AESA - Missile Defense Advocacy Alliance

Quick Facts Role and Mobility Instantaneous tracking and multi-target tracking, and Air-mobile Frequency X-Band Range 150 km Air Defense Interceptor Systems F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Boeing EA-18G Growler Targets Air-to-air and ground-to-air missiles, Aircraft, and UAVs Status/Exports Operational...

missiledefenseadvocacy.org

150 km....

I very seriously doubt this figure. Please remember that present Representative of Boeing Defense in India is R. Adm. Surender Ahuja. My very dear friend and flying coursemate.

 

[Hydra]

If you want AGM158c, then start with P8I

We have p8I, as of now its armed with Harpoon missiles.

I very seriously doubt this figure. Please remember that present Representative of Boeing Defense in India is R. Adm. Surender Ahuja. My very dear friend and flying coursemate.

Suppose if we choose f18 for IN what will be their offer when comes to offset obligations, afaik uncle sam.wilo not share or co develop jet engines with anyone else.