Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

What should we select?


  • Total voters
    49

Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
4,462
4,226
Bangalore
That isn't going to happen. The US is allowing their tech, they gave to France for nuke subs for India. The French will be the ones.
The only ones providing technology for nuclear powered submarines are the Russian designers. French offer is of consulting. And it's UK with the American cooperation. French are quite independent into this.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
14,983
10,992
India
What Boeing propose doesnt matters here, they even proposed 60+ Apache for IA & nothing happened. What matters more is what DRDO & HAL propose, they will not let 50+ FA18 SH orders to happen. Personally i feels we need as many as Apache, probably 120+ to take down two fron scenarios.

These are not Boeing's proposals, they are Indian requirements. IA wants 3 squadrons of 22 Apaches each for 3 SCs, which has now risen to 4 SCs. In reality, we need 25 squadrons of 10 Apaches each for each of our armoured brigades.

Similarly, to operate 3 carriers, the IN needs at least 100 jets at the minimum. So if 50+ of these are SH, then another 50+ can be TEDBF.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Valhalla

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
14,983
10,992
India
That isn't going to happen.

Yes. But a Russian style loophole is always available. For example, the Russians operate the reactor on the leased sub. So the Americans can do the same.

The conclusion you can draw here is the extent of sincerity the US is willing to show. The Russians showed us such sincerity by allowing the lease of such subs because they have geniune intentions of making India a major global power that can rival the US. There is no other advantage to them in doing so.

France has the willingness to show such sincerity, although they have had less chances to demonstrate it. At least they are willing to provide full know-how and know-why when it comes to jet engines.

These things go well beyond commercial benefits.

Otoh, most of what we do with the US has primarily been for commercial benefits or pulling India into its orbit.
 

A Person

Senior member
Dec 1, 2017
1,091
1,079
A Place
IN carriers have only three wires instead of four as in most USN and other western Carriers. The middle one is to be snapped for landing.
What "other western carriers" have four wires? There's only one other western nation that has CATOBAR carriers, it's France, and the French navy's aircraft carrier has three wires.
 

A Person

Senior member
Dec 1, 2017
1,091
1,079
A Place
laffo @ the idea Paris has any sort of significant clout in India.

If that were true, a new order of Rafale would have been made in 2018 to ensure continuous deliveries. Instead it's stuck at 36, despite all the heavy investments that were made, and it will most likely remain at 36 forever.

The capitals that have clout in India are Moscow and Washington. Mostly Washington these days, they can even allow themselves to tell Indian administrations such as the Mumbai Port Authority what they should and shouldn't do.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
14,983
10,992
India
laffo @ the idea Paris has any sort of significant clout in India.

If that were true, a new order of Rafale would have been made in 2018 to ensure continuous deliveries. Instead it's stuck at 36, despite all the heavy investments that were made, and it will most likely remain at 36 forever.

The capitals that have clout in India are Moscow and Washington. Mostly Washington these days, they can even allow themselves to tell Indian administrations such as the Mumbai Port Authority what they should and shouldn't do.

The IAF wants the solo capabilities of the Rafale which can fully tap into the IAF's network while the IN wants a carrier-compatible jet with the ability to fully tap into the American network.

It's not a stretch to say the US has more clout than France, that's a no-brainer, but it shouldn't matter in either the MRFA or MRCBF. It doesn't make sense to give up core requirements for some flimsy political benefits. Both services are making the best apolitical decision possible. Rather mutually beneficial political deals are being made in other areas, like civilian nuclear reactors, trade deals etc.

The Rafale getting stuck at just 36 is only circumstantial, it has nothing to do with France, US or even Russia. I'd say it's basically internal bureaucracy. Look at it this way. Post MMRCA, the IAF wanted a new SE MII tender between Gripen and F-16, which means they most likely planned on buying 36 more Rafales while the new tender ran its course. And later on, the IAF could have tapped into Dassault's big plan of building jets in India, including the second tranche, forcing the govt to allow the continued production of Rafale without a new TE MII tender. This would have allowed simultaneous induction of both Rafale and Gripen. DRDO and MoD seem to have killed this grand IAF plan by bringing in LCA Mk2 and expanding the MRFA respectively, killing the chances of a follow-on Rafale order. I doubt American clout has anything to do with all of this.

In the meantime, while the IAF works on their new LCA + MRFA plan, the IN's 57 new jets will significantly add to India's fighter edge by 2030. People also forget that the IAF is adding 95 other jets to its kitty by 2030. That's 152 new jets in the next 8 years. It's not bad at all.
 

A Person

Senior member
Dec 1, 2017
1,091
1,079
A Place
I do not expect India to make a move before the Super Hornet line is closed down for good. It's an Indian tradition. For example they waited until the Mirage 2000 line was dismantled before saying they wanted more, and they waited until the C-17 line was dismantled before saying they wanted more. It's just how things go in India.
 

marich01

Active member
Aug 17, 2022
185
126
India
Boeing have stepped up their pr game. They must sense big opportunity after the tests.
Should SH18s are selected, what are the armaments will be on offer? Do navy/Gov ready to procure us arms those we have made ourselves like astra, anti rad etc? That seems like a waste given how much they are pushing for desi weapons and this fighter deal is interim solution as per them.
My guess is, navy are deep down very giddy about operating the drones, sh18 & p8i together. They will happily procure everything on offer.
I do not understand, naval LCA was cancelled already? Is it part of TEDBF testing bed? or interim solution to fly some tejas as PR before the 2024 election as stopgap before MRCA happen?

 

_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
17,337
13,260
Mumbai
I do not expect India to make a move before the Super Hornet line is closed down for good. It's an Indian tradition. For example they waited until the Mirage 2000 line was dismantled before saying they wanted more, and they waited until the C-17 line was dismantled before saying they wanted more. It's just how things go in India.
Quite obviously you're not a great believer of that immortal line in Forrest Gump - "My momma always said , Life's a box of chocolates. You never know which one you're going to get next. "

India is.

Speaking of chocolates, I'm guessing Naval Group is about to get one in Indonesia. I've read news reports of Indonesia cancelling the next tranche of orders for submarines, orders of which were placed many years ago with South Korea.

The Indonesian Navy then began actively pursuing the matter with SK to see how far they've progressed. In their enthusiasm, DSME began to place orders for long lead items with other OEMs across the world, with no advance received.

Things continued in the same vein for 2 yrs with Indonesian Navy aggressively following up with DSME while on the other hand their ministry of finance kept postponing the release of funds on one excuse or another.

SK, used to such treatment kept up progress on the sub building project for many a times in the past Indonesia had defaulted on it's commitments to pay up in the previous sub building project too.

In fact the latter had even asked SK to consider barter arrangements for commodities such as palm oil in lieu of hard currency. Then suddenly one fine day Indonesia cancelled the order with SK saddling them with long lead items worth dozens of millions & no advance received or palm oil.

I think NG should be in for a great deal of fun with Indonesia.
 

Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
4,462
4,226
Bangalore
Quite obviously you're not a great believer of that immortal line in Forrest Gump - "My momma always said , Life's a box of chocolates. You never know which one you're going to get next. "

India is.

Speaking of chocolates, I'm guessing Naval Group is about to get one in Indonesia. I've read news reports of Indonesia cancelling the next tranche of orders for submarines, orders of which were placed many years ago with South Korea.

The Indonesian Navy then began actively pursuing the matter with SK to see how far they've progressed. In their enthusiasm, DSME began to place orders for long lead items with other OEMs across the world, with no advance received.

Things continued in the same vein for 2 yrs with Indonesian Navy aggressively following up with DSME while on the other hand their ministry of finance kept postponing the release of funds on one excuse or another.

SK, used to such treatment kept up progress on the sub building project for many a times in the past Indonesia had defaulted on it's commitments to pay up in the previous sub building project too.

In fact the latter had even asked SK to consider barter arrangements for commodities such as palm oil in lieu of hard currency. Then suddenly one fine day Indonesia cancelled the order with SK saddling them with long lead items worth dozens of millions & no advance received or palm oil.

I think NG should be in for a great deal of fun with Indonesia.
South Koreans tried to pull a China 😆

But couldn't replicate the work of TKMS. Have been saying that there's a reason to stick with either Germans or French for such a advanced submarine project.
C17 case is infact a tragedy. Dont know what IAF will do after il-76 ends its service life.
C17 numbers are fine.

Il76 on the other hand has many possible solutions.
 

_Anonymous_

Senior Member
Dec 4, 2017
17,337
13,260
Mumbai
South Koreans tried to pull a China 
I think the Indonesians paid them back in their own coin.
But couldn't replicate the work of TKMS. Have been saying that there's a reason to stick with either Germans or French for such a advanced submarine project.
I think you can safely rule out the French for this project. If anything I think the present tender is tailor made for TKMS. It's for them to lose it.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Innominate

Ankit Kumar

Team StratFront
Nov 30, 2017
4,462
4,226
Bangalore
I think the Indonesians paid them back in their own coin.

I think you can safely rule out the French for this project. If anything I think the present tender is tailor made for TKMS. It's for them to lose it.
MMRCA and P75I

Lost hopes on both these things.

I think both IAF and Navy belive in giving equal opportunity to PAF/PN and therefore intentionally reducing the fleet to match their numbers 😅