Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

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Lolwa

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Feb 6, 2020
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Indeed this is true, but you can't tell the French this. They don't like it. I was just banned from airdefense for posting this in reply to their claim of SC with tanks and weapons to M1.4'
"Of course, you can't quote a Dassault statement that says that. Myths start from many places. A pilot in a Fox article, that's all I've seen. You realize that no other aircraft can do this. I would even say that even the F-22 with its external tanks and armaments cannot do M1.4. In straight and level flight, an important point to add.

Indeed, I am in awe of this powerful Rafale. Only God knows why the UAE wanted a more powerful engine in the Rafale, because they didn't want to lose the specs they had with their F-16," a French general said."
The superhornet is limited to mach 1.6 would love to see where you got the 1.8M numbers for the superhornet
 

Lolwa

Senior member
Feb 6, 2020
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SH are more capable in performance over the "vanilla" F-18 and that "vanilla" with two drop tanks was able out turn a clean Rafale
They are superior in terms of electronics that is it really.
Racist much? You of all people shouldn't say Malaysians "aren't really known to be good at anything" when IAF is best known for crashing jets
It's funny coming from an American considering you guys are crashing brand new f-35's all over the place while for the IAF it's dated Soviet machines that are way past their shelf life. As for RMAF they get bullied by Tiny Singapore .
 
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Innominate

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Jun 23, 2021
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The superhornet is limited to mach 1.6 would love to see where you got the 1.8M numbers for the superhornet

General Characteristics: Max takeoff weight 66,000 lb (29,937 kg) Field landing weight 50,600 lb (22,951 kg) Max catapult payload Max bringback payload 34,000 lb (15,422 kg) E: 9,900 lb (4,491 kg) F: 9,000 lb (4,082 kg) Speed Combat ceiling Design load factor Mach 1.8+ 50,000+ ft (15,240+ m) 7.6g

 
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Innominate

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Jun 23, 2021
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They are superior in terms of electronics that is it really.

And performance you dope. I know you hate to be wrong but you're wrong a lot.
It's funny coming from an American considering you guys are crashing brand new f-35's all over the place while for the IAF it's dated Soviet machines that are way past their shelf life. As for RMAF they get bullied by Tiny Singapore .

Crashing F-35's all over the place? Really?

Get this through your head IAF, not USAF or any other air force, is known and is stereotyped as having a crashing problem.
 

Lolwa

Senior member
Feb 6, 2020
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And performance you dope. I know you hate to be wrong but you're wrong a
What performance. The superhornet flies slower turns slower than the hornet. What exactly does the superhornet offer over the hornet apart from avionics and meme stealth.
And performance you dope. I know you hate to be wrong but you're wrong a lot.


Crashing F-35's all over the place? Really?

Get this through your head IAF, not USAF or any other air force, is known and is stereotyped as having a crashing problem.
Is this some new american cope to deflect from the fact that you guys end up crashing brand new planes while the IAF has done a far better job flying far older and far more unreliable stuff
Compare this to IAF which has flown mig 21's mig 23's and mig 27's. I would say the IAF has performed far better than the USAF considering the flying hours of the average IAF pilot.
 

Innominate

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Jun 23, 2021
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What performance. The superhornet flies slower turns slower than the hornet. What exactly does the superhornet offer over the hornet apart from avionics and meme stealth.

You're just making yourself look dumb which I know isn't hard for you. I posted a Boeing and other sources of the F-18E's mach 1.8 speed but you choose to bury your head up your nanu nanu.
Is this some new american cope to deflect from the fact that you guys end up crashing brand new planes while the IAF has done a far better job flying far older and far more unreliable stuff
Compare this to IAF which has flown mig 21's mig 23's and mig 27's. I would say the IAF has performed far better than the USAF considering the flying hours of the average IAF pilot.
Oh stop crying US still has thousands of fighters made in the 70s and they fly them more hours since USAF and Navy seems like they are always in some sort of combat. IAF doesn't come close to flight hours and quantity yet IAF is known as a crashy air force.

Remember you started this by saying Malaysians aren't good at anything.
 

Lolwa

Senior member
Feb 6, 2020
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You're just making yourself look dumb which I know isn't hard for you. I posted a Boeing and other sources of the F-18E's mach 1.8 speed but you choose to bury your head up your nanu nanu.

Oh stop crying US still has thousands of fighters made in the 70s and they fly them more hours since USAF and Navy seems like they are always in some sort of combat. IAF doesn't come close to flight hours and quantity yet IAF is known as a crashy air force.

Remember you started this by saying Malaysians aren't good at anything.
IAF has similar flight hours to nato standard pilots. Stop making up stuff you have barely any knowledge about. And I would love to know any 70's aircraft the USAF is flying still apart from the re-engined b-52's. Also stop calling a2g in uncontested airspace as combat missions.
Also you haven't proved anywhere that the Malaysians are good at anything.
posted a Boeing and other sources of the F-18E's mach 1.8 speed but you choose to bury your head up your nanu nanu.
It's well known that the super hornets are limited to mach 1.6 by that standard the French can claim that the Rafale can do mach 2 too
 

Innominate

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Jun 23, 2021
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IAF has similar flight hours to nato standard pilots. Stop making up stuff you have barely any knowledge about. And I would love to know any 70's aircraft the USAF is flying still apart from the re-engined b-52's. Also stop calling a2g in uncontested airspace as combat missions.
Also you haven't proved anywhere that the Malaysians are good at anything.

Lol. No IAF doesn't fly hours wise like the USAF and USN. USAF deploys all over the world including combat areas and USN patrols the oceans including combat areas.

So IAF mig-21s and other 70s fighters IAF flies have not been upgraded? Puh-leeze.
It's well known that the super hornets are limited to mach 1.6 by that standard the French can claim that the Rafale can do mach 2 too

My Boeing source said Mach 1.8 and your response is "it's well known that SH are limited to mach 1.6?" What kind of a dumb response is that?

French can't claim that because they claim mach 1.8 just like the Boeing source I posted saying mach 1.8.

MODELF/A-18E
CREW1-2
ENGINE2 x General Electric F414-GE-400, 10000kg
WEIGHTS
Take-off weight29937 kg66000 lb
Empty weight13387 kg29513 lb
DIMENSIONS
Wingspan11.43 m38 ft 6 in
Length18.31 m60 ft 1 in
Height4.88 m16 ft 0 in
Wing area46.45 m2499.98 sq ft
PERFORMANCE
Max. speed1.8M1.8M
Ceiling15240 m50000 ft
Range1500 km932 miles


Rafale F1/A model clean configuration with M88 engines did mach 1.8.

F-18E blk 1 clean configuration did mach 1.8.

Deal with.
 

Parthu

Gessler
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Australia is upgrading their SH to block lll and at this stage, still intends to retire them midlife. What I can assure you is that regardless of the hours left. The USN will not run 3 platforms on a carrier, the SH-III. F-35 and FA-xx. Pick 2.

They've had a mixed fleet of A-6, F-14 & F/A-18 throughout Desert Shield, Desert Storm & Southern Watch. That's 3 generations of aircraft (1960, 1970 & 1978 first flights) on the same carrier.

 

Optimist

Active member
Oct 31, 2021
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Australia
They've had a mixed fleet of A-6, F-14 & F/A-18 throughout Desert Shield, Desert Storm & Southern Watch. That's 3 generations of aircraft (1960, 1970 & 1978 first flights) on the same carrier.
The same war and it was their last deployment, but I doubt very much they would have run them off the same carrier. It's just too hard to have all the gear necessary to support it.
 

Lolwa

Senior member
Feb 6, 2020
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Delhi
Lol. No IAF doesn't fly hours wise like the USAF and USN. USAF deploys all over the world including combat areas and USN patrols the oceans including combat areas.

So IAF mig-21s and other 70s fighters IAF flies have not been upgraded? Puh-leeze.


My Boeing source said Mach 1.8 and your response is "it's well known that SH are limited to mach 1.6?" What kind of a dumb response is that?

French can't claim that because they claim mach 1.8 just like the Boeing source I posted saying mach 1.8.

MODELF/A-18E
CREW1-2
ENGINE2 x General Electric F414-GE-400, 10000kg
WEIGHTS
Take-off weight29937 kg66000 lb
Empty weight13387 kg29513 lb
DIMENSIONS
Wingspan11.43 m38 ft 6 in
Length18.31 m60 ft 1 in
Height4.88 m16 ft 0 in
Wing area46.45 m2499.98 sq ft
PERFORMANCE
Max. speed1.8M1.8M
Ceiling15240 m50000 ft
Range1500 km932 miles


Rafale F1/A model clean configuration with M88 engines did mach 1.8.

F-18E blk 1 clean configuration did mach 1.8.

Deal with.
The indian mig's have avionics upgrade but continue to use pos tumansky engines so nowhere close to the comparison to an 8 engined b-52
 

Optimist

Active member
Oct 31, 2021
455
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Australia
Parthu. I'll also add it was war time and they had the A-6 prowler deployed. The USN like Australia also ran aircraft from land. It is probably if they ran the A-6 from a carrier, it would have been with the prowler force and with either the F-14 or Fa-18. To my knowledge, they haven't run the hornet, super hornet and F-35 on the same carrier.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
14,957
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India
Parthu. I'll also add it was war time and they had the A-6 prowler deployed. The USN like Australia also ran aircraft from land. It is probably if they ran the A-6 from a carrier, it would have been with the prowler force and with either the F-14 or Fa-18. To my knowledge, they haven't run the hornet, super hornet and F-35 on the same carrier.

The Hornets have been dead for sometime. Most carrier air wings only have Super Hornets. Only 3 carrier air wings have one F-35 squadron each, one of the squadrons belongs to the Marine.

By 2035, we should likely see 1 F-35 squadron in each wing, alongside 3 SH squadrons. And between 2035-45, we should see the F-35, SH and NGAD operating side by side until most of the SHs retire. Some carrier air wings should still see SH operating with the NGAD and F-35 until after 2050 or so. At least 6 SH squadrons should be operable until then.
 
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Ashwin

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Nov 30, 2017
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The Indian Navy will enter into a government-to-government contract with either the US or French government for the purchase of over two dozen fighter aircraft, top Naval officers said Tuesday.
 

Ashwin

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“There has been an operational demo by Dassault Rafale and Boeing F-18. Trials are done. Because the Navy required aircraft which can take off from its carriers…The report is yet to come in on the op-demo. Once that comes in, we will do a staff evaluation. Preferably it will be an Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) case. That is the recommendation from the Navy,” said Commodore Pankaj Chauhan, in-charge of Air Acquisition at the Naval Headquarters.

Elaborating, Vice Chief of the Naval Staff Vice Adm. S. N. Ghormade said the trials of Rafale and F-18 Super Hornet had been done to prove their capability to operate from aircraft carriers. “Our aim is indigenisation. We have a Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF) plan but it will take some time,” he said referring to the new indigenous jet underdevelopment, adding in the interim they are looking for an aircraft from among the two to meet their requirements.

 
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randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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India
It appears 26 will only be the initial order, the total will still climb up to 57. The goal is to operate MRCBF alongside TEDBF on all three carriers. Three squadrons will allow that. It can even go above 57 if the need arises. It's possible if the IN is planning on building 2 new carriers of the same class via 2 shipyards, public and private. I suppose Fujian is pushing India's naval buildup into overdrive.

Apparently, the IN won't treat the Rafale unfairly, ie, the lack of two-seat carrier jet and the issue with the lift.

IN plans to go for the Growler too, if the SH wins. I mean, it makes sense. The SH isn't good enough as a standalone fighter.
 
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Sathya

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Dec 2, 2017
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It appears 26 will only be the initial order, the total will still climb up to 57. The goal is to operate MRCBF alongside TEDBF on all three carriers. Three squadrons will allow that. It can even go above 57 if the need arises. It's possible if the IN is planning on building 2 new carriers of the same class via 2 shipyards, public and private. I suppose Fujian is pushing India's naval buildup into overdrive.

Apparently, the IN won't treat the Rafale unfairly, ie, the lack of two-seat carrier jet and the issue with the lift.

IN plans to go for the Growler too, if the SH wins. I mean, it makes sense. The SH isn't good enough as a standalone fighter.

How much of difference will there between F18 growler vs Su30 mki Electronic attack craft?

Will IAF need to ask for growler for SEAD/DEAD attack? Which may take care of another front than Rafale.

In that case which fighter will become better pair suited for such missions?

In any case, IN MRCBF procurement seems to back up IAF.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
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India
How much of difference will there between F18 growler vs Su30 mki Electronic attack craft?

I don't think they are comparable due to the different environments they will operate in. Growler will be better networked with American assets at sea. MKI will have to fly over the Himalayas. The base tech on the Growler with the new engine and NGJ should be better though. It's too early to tell, but we should obviously give the benefit of the doubt to the Americans.

Will IAF need to ask for growler for SEAD/DEAD attack? Which may take care of another front than Rafale.

I doubt it will be necessary.

In that case which fighter will become better pair suited for such missions?

Rafale won't need MKI or Growler. Rather, they will become liabilities to the Rafale.

Rafale relies on stealth. Growler is the opposite of stealth, the enemy knows when its around. Growler suppresses air defences (SEAD) with jamming and ARMs, by forcing the enemy to turn off their radars so they do not get destroyed. Rafale destroys (DEAD) with bombs without informing the enemy of its presence. So the enemy know they are being attacked only after stuff starts blowing up. It's next gen capability.

In any case, IN MRCBF procurement seems to back up IAF.

IN says MRCBF will not be dependent on the IAF, which I feel is a big hint. They plan to make an independent decision. As far as I'm concerned, the IN is gonna buy the SH+Growler combo.

I'll actually be surprised if the Rafale wins at this point. With the exception of some extra range, I don't see any 'real' advantage in favour of the Rafale M that TEDBF won't provide. Rather the TEDBF+SH combo, both operating the same engine, perhaps the same computers and network, will complement each other perfectly.
 
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Optimist

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F/A-18 demonstrates ability to launch from Indian carriers with ‘upsized' loadout[/b]


"Boeing has concluded a demonstration of the F/A-18 Super Hornet's ability to launch from Indian aircraft carriers with two Boeing AGM-84 Harpoon missiles, which exceeds New Delhi's requirement for its multirole carrier-borne fighters (MRCBF) programme.

The capability was demonstrated at the Indian Navy's Shore Based Test Facility (SBTF) at INS Hansa in Goa, India, between late-May and early-June 2022, said Alain Garcia, vice-president International Business Development at Boeing India, in an interview with Janes . The demonstrations were done as part of trials to validate the F/A-18's ability to operate from Indian carriers.

Under the MRCBF, the Indian Navy is planning to acquire 57 carrier-borne fighter aircraft that will operate from its Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC), which will be in service as INS Vikrant once it is commissioned. The 37,000-tonne vessel completed its final sea trials in early-July 2022 and is scheduled to be commissioned in August 2022...."

F/A-18 demonstrates ability to launch from Indian carriers with ‘upsized' loadout