Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

What should we select?


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KUNAL BISWAS

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Jul 30, 2021
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#Boeing showcased E/F Block 3 +4.5gen variant back in #AeroIndia2011 in #India often called "Silent Hornet" back then it was very modern compare to any in #IAF inventory, cockpit includes 11-by-19 inch MFD, built in MAWS,LWS,RWR & IRST, Powered by GE414 EPE Engine. #IndianNavy
 
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A Person

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IMO the most logical choice would be Rafale, but the most Indian choice would be to wait for the TEDBF. (Or just to wait, period.)
 

Ashwin

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Hydra

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Yeah, both are hands down better than the Mig-29K. But the real question is payload. Both jets can be fuelled to the brim and can provide their max ranges. Another advantage we have is the ability to be supported from Australia with mid-air refuelling. But there's a possibility that the Rafale may end up carrying less weapons than the SH. And in sea battles, a quantitative weapons advantage is very important. Rafale can carry 1 Exocet, while the SH can carry 2 Harpoons or 4 LRASMs.
LRASMs will be a game changer, but we need to ensure its delivery to india in the contract.
 

suryakiran

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Yeah, both are hands down better than the Mig-29K. But the real question is payload. Both jets can be fuelled to the brim and can provide their max ranges. Another advantage we have is the ability to be supported from Australia with mid-air refuelling. But there's a possibility that the Rafale may end up carrying less weapons than the SH. And in sea battles, a quantitative weapons advantage is very important. Rafale can carry 1 Exocet, while the SH can carry 2 Harpoons or 4 LRASMs.

I think, it will be critical to check whether the BrahMos can be integrated with the F-18. And not other missiles. With the focus on indigenous missiles, this will be critical.

With the numbers produced of the BrahMos any fighter being inducted into the IAF or IN will need to be able to fire this. If no, its a straight no go.
 

Ashwin

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I think, it will be critical to check whether the BrahMos can be integrated with the F-18. And not other missiles. With the focus on indigenous missiles, this will be critical.

With the numbers produced of the BrahMos any fighter being inducted into the IAF or IN will need to be able to fire this. If no, its a straight no go.
Brahmos has no role in these purchase. Only a heavy fighter like Su-30/F-15 would be able to fly with 2.5 ton Brahmos-A. When you consider STOBAR requirement harpoon, NSM and LRASM are best suited. A JSM with ~450kg weight gives you upto 280km on lo-lo and 560km on hi-lo profile.

Brahmos-NG is a non existent missile with 1.5 ton weight. It's still too heavy for carrier based roles.


@Parthu
 

Ankit Kumar

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Brahmos has no role in these purchase. Only a heavy fighter like Su-30/F-15 would be able to fly with 2.5 ton Brahmos-A. When you consider STOBAR requirement harpoon, NSM and LRASM are best suited. A JSM with ~450kg weight gives you upto 280km on lo-lo and 560km on hi-lo profile.

Brahmos-NG is a non existent missile with 1.5 ton weight. It's still too heavy for carrier based roles.


@Parthu
For this tender Navy wants a fighter that can take off with decent loads and execute all the tasks which Mig29K originally promised. No one would be looking for Brahmos.

But yes integration of Astra BVR , Rudra etc if agreed by Boeing will be a extremely good selling point.
 
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suryakiran

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Brahmos has no role in these purchase. Only a heavy fighter like Su-30/F-15 would be able to fly with 2.5 ton Brahmos-A. When you consider STOBAR requirement harpoon, NSM and LRASM are best suited. A JSM with ~450kg weight gives you upto 280km on lo-lo and 560km on hi-lo profile.

Brahmos-NG is a non existent missile with 1.5 ton weight. It's still too heavy for carrier based roles.


@Parthu
BrahMos NG. It is specifically targeted at the Mig 29K, Rafale and Tejas. As per what am aware, Dassault has no qualms of integration with Rafale. The LRSM is 1.1.
 
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Ashwin

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BrahMos NG. It is specifically targeted at the Mig 29K, Rafale and Tejas. As per what am aware, Dassault has no qualms of integration with Rafale. The LRSM is 1.1.
They are still marketing. None of the services came forward with support. For airforce it makes more sense for high value targets.
 

suryakiran

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They are still marketing. None of the services came forward with support. For airforce it makes more sense for high value targets.

Land has been allocated in UP for this. Separate facility for BrahMos NG. The NG first order will be IAF. But it is targeted mainly at the IN. Capacity is to manufacture 100 missiles per year at this facility.

If you look/guess at the production numbers (I always says look at numbers) of the BrahMos, it is very evident this is our go to strike platform. And this is the main reason it has not been given a strategic role. No major offensive platform which cannot be integrated with this will ever be bought.
 

Hydra

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BrahMos NG. It is specifically targeted at the Mig 29K, Rafale and Tejas. As per what am aware, Dassault has no qualms of integration with Rafale. The LRSM is 1.1.
Let them test fire it first, there is a limited if not no co operation from Russia on the project, if that true NG will come online along with TEDBF only.
 

randomradio

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IMO the most logical choice would be Rafale, but the most Indian choice would be to wait for the TEDBF. (Or just to wait, period.)

TEDBF cannot be used from flattops, it's being made for ramps.

So the choice is really between the SH or Rafale today, or an Indian flattop jet in 15-20 years.
 

randomradio

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I think, it will be critical to check whether the BrahMos can be integrated with the F-18. And not other missiles. With the focus on indigenous missiles, this will be critical.

With the numbers produced of the BrahMos any fighter being inducted into the IAF or IN will need to be able to fire this. If no, its a straight no go.

Indigenisation isn't a factor at all in this deal. But Brahmos M integration is possible because it's not integrated with the radar or other sensors. It's gonna be politically difficult though.

And both Brahmos M and LRASM will be necessary. We will naturally have our own plans to create a missile equivalent or better than the LRASM, but it's not gonna be ready when we need it, ie about 3-4 years from now, when MRCBF deliveries will begin. The Mig-29K and TEDBF will be integrated with it anyway.

What I'm more concerned about is if we can integrate our drones, or if we have to use what they give us.
 

randomradio

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randomradio

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You sure? The F4.1 was supposed to be delivered by 2025-26, and the 4.2 after that wasn't it?

Sorry I'm not up to date on the timelines.

Full qualification of 4.1 in 2022 and 4.2 in 2024. Assuming we sign a deal next year, we will get jets beginning from 2026, even if the 4.2 prototype only begins flying in 2023. The French are expected to get their 4.2s in 2025.

The leased jets will naturally be F3R, F4 avionics are not necessary. They will be returned once the delivery of all 26 jets are completed.

Anyway, they are saying the Rafale is operable from both carriers. The clearance could be frighteningly close on lifts, though, 9.6m Rafale vs 9.3m SH. Whether the removal of the wing tips will actually become a turnaround problem on deck or not will be a crucial factor. Otherwise, the Rafale's platform advantage is far greater than the SH. The only thing the SH has got going for it is the possibility that it can lift a bigger payload and networking with American assets.
 

Optimist

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IMO the most logical choice would be Rafale, but the most Indian choice would be to wait for the TEDBF. (Or just to wait, period.)
I agree for costs involved in running another platform. The Raffle make more sense. Even though the better aircraft has always been the super hornet.
 

Sathya

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Full qualification of 4.1 in 2022 and 4.2 in 2024. Assuming we sign a deal next year, we will get jets beginning from 2026, even if the 4.2 prototype only begins flying in 2023. The French are expected to get their 4.2s in 2025.

The leased jets will naturally be F3R, F4 avionics are not necessary. They will be returned once the delivery of all 26 jets are completed.

Anyway, they are saying the Rafale is operable from both carriers. The clearance could be frighteningly close on lifts, though, 9.6m Rafale vs 9.3m SH. Whether the removal of the wing tips will actually become a turnaround problem on deck or not will be a crucial factor. Otherwise, the Rafale's platform advantage is far greater than the SH. The only thing the SH has got going for it is the possibility that it can lift a bigger payload and networking with American assets.

How long we ll operate vicky?
Can we replace it with a big lift IAC 2 .
Setting entire carrier group is expensive, but carrier alone?
We can have a two operational carrier group, a spare carrier for refit times.