Mid Air Refueling Tanker : Updates & Discussions

As a B-707 derivative, KC-135 is more of a liability than an asset, imo. Lacks upgrade potential and multi-role/swing-role capability of modern MRTTs.

Perhaps GoI could have retained some commercial Air India B777/A350 airframes before selling off the company to the Tata Group. Those possibly could been converted into MRTT for the IAF.
 
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Speedster1 said:
As a B-707 derivative, KC-135 is more of a liability than an asset, imo. Lacks upgrade potential and multi-role/swing-role capability of modern MRTTs.
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While valid concerns, I do think it's a short-term solution until the IAF/MoD figure out how best to sort the clown show that has been the MRTT procurement. I don't think it'll be a downgrade compared to the IL-78. Given the KC-135s will be owned and operated by the supplier firm, I think the IAF isn't concerned about upgrade potential.

Plus, there have been reports that IAF also plans on leasing the A330 MRTT from the French AF, so operating both of them side-by-side gives IAF insight into these platforms and gives them time to decide if they want to go for a tender or a G2G agreement with either the French or the Americans for the respective candidates, the 2x refueller tender winner A330 or the successor to the KC-135, KC-46.
 
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YoungWolf said:
While valid concerns, I do think it's a short-term solution until the IAF/MoD figure out how best to sort the clown show that has been the MRTT procurement. I don't think it'll be a downgrade compared to the IL-78. Given the KC-135s will be owned and operated by the supplier firm, I think the IAF isn't concerned about upgrade potential.

Plus, there have been reports that IAF also plans on leasing the A330 MRTT from the French AF, so operating both of them side-by-side gives IAF insight into these platforms and gives them time to decide if they want to go for a tender or a G2G agreement with either the French or the Americans for the respective candidates, the 2x refueller tender winner A330 or the successo
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I think serviceability problems with the IL-78s may have forced the IAF to lease KC-135 as a stop-gap. But if I'm not mistaken, KC-135 is of an even older vintage than IL-78. So there's precious little the IAF could learn from flying it.

The only consolidation is that the USAF still flies them in numbers. So they must be pretty reliable.

Iirc, the IAF has operated VVIP configured B707s in the past too. However, a 3rd tender (with pretty much the same competitors- IAI B767 MMTT, Airbus A330 and KC-46 - except perhaps a possible new entrant IL-476/8) would be embarrassing for the IAF to say the least. They need to sort things out with the babooze at MoF/MoD. And fast.
 
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Well, you said it. KC-135 is still in active USAF service, and will remain so for another 5-10 years until KC-46 replaces it completely. IL-78 OTOH, is bad enough that this is IAF's 3rd go at acquiring a decent tanker. Reliability/maintainability has been the bane of IL-76/78 in IAF service. While the KC-135 unsurprisingly has been facing issues due to the platform's age, the ex-AdlA tankers that we're acquiring almost certainly have more life in them than the USAF units.

Given the IAF called for a twin-engined airliner as a base platform in the RfI and a horrible experience with the Russian tankers, IL-476/8 won't even make the cut. A HAL/IAI offering may undercut the competition in terms of price and give us some indigenous capability in tanker domain, it but won't be as optimised as the A330/KC-46 as an MRTT. I agree that it'll be embarrassing for IAF if they organise a 3rd tender and end up selecting the A330, *AGAIN*, but hey, maybe 3rd time will be the charm and we'll finally get some new tankers.
 
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breakingdefense.com

Airbus launches A330 MRTT+ to deliver extended range - Breaking Defense

The new aircraft design has been validated through simulations so far, according to Airbus, so the company would be in a position to move ahead promptly, without the need for a demonstrator, should customers require it.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com

We should be going for this new version. Its based on Airbus A330-800 neo with newer engine.
 
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Don't suppose this includes the price of the baseline aircraft? They'll have to float a separate tender for 6 pre-owned B767s.
 
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babablacksheep said:
IAI has no previous experience in converting 777 into military tanker.
They have experience in converting it into civilian freighter.

If iaf had went with 777 conversion
cost increases
Time taken increases
Risk increases.
Click to expand...
Boeing can also object as it will be threat to their tanker offering.
 
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Ashwin said:

But why not Boeing 777 ?
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I don't think any airforce in the worls operates a Boeing 777 jet liner based aerial refueller.
Most of the platforms like the KC-46, KC-767 are based on the Boeing 767.
IAI has vast amounts of experience converting the Boeing 767 into aerial refuelers so it's the safest option to pursue with the least amount of risk and costs involved, although there remains a possibility of Boeing throwing a fit and blocking the sale to lobby for the KC-46 purchase.
 
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IAF moves for mid-air refuellers, Israel firm in partnership with HAL emerges as the frontrunner

India currently uses six Russian IIyushin-78 tankers for refuelling, first inducted in 2003, but they are facing maintenance and serviceability issues

New Delhi: The Indian Air Force (IAF) has issued a tender for six mid-air refuelling aircraft—all of which will be converted passenger jets—with Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) and its Indian partner Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) emerging as early frontrunners, ThePrint has learnt.

Sources in the defence and security establishment said that the Request for Proposal (RFP) was sent out to multiple companies last month, including the original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) who have their own dedicated tanker line.

The IAF’s overall requirement is for around 12 refuellers, with procurement likely to be split into two programmes.

The current RFP, issued last month, covers six converted refuellers, under which a commercial passenger aircraft will be modified into a tanker. A separate RFP for brand-new refuellers is expected to follow.

The RFP comes with a 30 percent Make in India clause which industry sources explained will deter OEMs because the numbers are too small to meet such obligations.

India currently uses six Russian IIyushin-78 tankers, first inducted in 2003, but they are facing maintenance and serviceability issues.

India had last month got its first leased Boeing KC-135 Stratotanker mid-air refueller. This is a fully wet lease, as reported by ThePrint, the aircraft will be flown, manned and maintained by pilots and crew belonging to the lessor, American firm Metrea Management.

It was in April 2022 that HAL and IAI entered into an MoU to convert civil (passenger) aircraft into multi-mission tanker transport (MMTT) aircraft in India.

Under the pact, HAL will convert civil aircraft into mid-air refuelling aircraft with cargo and transport capabilities.

The aircraft that will be converted is the Boeing 767 passenger aircraft, which is also used by the Italian and Japanese militaries.

Boeing has a specialised tanker called KC-46 Pegasus, which is a variant of the Boeing 767. The conversion of passenger aircraft into cargo and tankers has been a lucrative business for IAI, which has emerged as a key player in this business.

Mid-air refuelling has been a critical capability gap for the IAF. This technology gives a fighter jet the ability to cover enhanced distances without having to land to refuel.
 
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