Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

[halloweene]

First, don't call me 'boy'. Second, what is doing F-35 A doing here? And no, it's combat range is not huge. Finally, Rafale M do not fly with 3 tanks. Ignorance as usual...

'Active stealth' or ECM electronic counter measures is one thing. The DRFM jamming is a repeater technique that manipulates received radar energy and retransmits it to change the return the radar sees and is a mode of this.
No one is saying it doesn't do this and it may be a translation thing. 'Active Cancelation', which is a very specific thing. Doesn't work on modern radars and definitely doesn't work on interconnected radars. Like the F-35 in the air and those that are land based in missile defence.

Sweetman posted a story that started this myth. It seems this guy has taken it up on a blog. If it is true and it's not classified. As he just said it, so it can't be. Where are the Dassault or Defence department heads saying this?

No Sweetman did not start the so called myth. Stephen Coonts did in one of its books, but nvm, ignorance is not a crime. Anyway, thank you for trying to lecture me about ecms, I know what is drfm.

'Active stealth' or ECM electronic counter measures is one thing. The DRFM jamming is a repeater technique that manipulates received radar energy and retransmits it to change the return the radar sees and is a mode of this.
No one is saying it doesn't do this and it may be a translation thing. 'Active Cancelation', which is a very specific thing. Doesn't work on modern radars and definitely doesn't work on interconnected radars. Like the F-35 in the air and those that are land based in missile defence.

Sweetman posted a story that started this myth. It seems this guy has taken it up on a blog. If it is true and it's not classified. As he just said it, so it can't be. Where are the Dassault or Defence department heads saying this? Or any of the countries that have bought a Rafale. Actually finally selling some has messed up the story completely.

Active stealth have a precise meaning. Thank you for trying to lecture me about ecms generally speaking and drfm based jamming techniques. Spamming words you obviously struggle to understand won't change anything. Pappalardo

'Active stealth' or ECM electronic counter measures is one thing. The DRFM jamming is a repeater technique that manipulates received radar energy and retransmits it to change the return the radar sees and is a mode of this.
No one is saying it doesn't do this and it may be a translation thing. 'Active Cancelation', which is a very specific thing. Doesn't work on modern radars and definitely doesn't work on interconnected radars. Like the F-35 in the air and those that are land based in missile defence.

Sweetman posted a story that started this myth. It seems this guy has taken it up on a blog. If it is true and it's not classified. As he just said it, so it can't be. Where are the Dassault or Defence department heads saying this? Or any of the countries that have bought a Rafale. Actually finally selling some has messed up the story completely.

Sweetman did not start a 'myth'. Stephen Coonts did in one of his books. Before trying to lecture me about ecms, may I suggest you a good reading that will help you grasp the concepts you are trying to teach? Hannen's book is a good introduction. Radar and Electronic Warfare Principles for the non specialist should help you a lot. Do not thank me, advice is free.
However,

'Active stealth' or ECM electronic counter measures is one thing. The DRFM jamming is a repeater technique that manipulates received radar energy and retransmits it to change the return the radar sees and is a mode of this.
No one is saying it doesn't do this and it may be a translation thing. 'Active Cancelation', which is a very specific thing. Doesn't work on modern radars and definitely doesn't work on interconnected radars. Like the F-35 in the air and those that are land based in missile defence.

Sweetman posted a story that started this myth. It seems this guy has taken it up on a blog. If it is true and it's not classified. As he just said it, so it can't be. Where are the Dassault or Defence department heads saying this? Or any of the countries that have bought a Rafale. Actually finally selling some has messed up the story completely.

Thx for trying to lecture me about concepts you obviously so hardly fight to grasp. Let me help you. Radar and Electronic Warfare Principles for the non specialist is the first book coming to my old mind. It should really help you.
I perfectly understand what David Pappalardo said in this institutional (irsem) podcast. And guess what? Active cancelation is a drfm based technique. As you seem to doubt his competences, you can find him on LinkedIn. There is no-one as blind as the one who does not want to see...

First, don't call me 'boy'. Second, what is doing F-35 A doing here? And no, it's combat range is not huge. Finally, Rafale M do not fly with 3 tanks. Ignorance as usual...

No Sweetman did not start the so called myth. Stephen Coonts did in one of its books, but nvm, ignorance is not a crime. Anyway, thank you for trying to lecture me about ecms, I know what is drfm.

Active stealth have a precise meaning. Thank you for trying to lecture me about ecms generally speaking and drfm based jamming techniques. Spamming words you obviously struggle to understand won't change anything. Pappalardo

Sweetman did not start a 'myth'. Stephen Coonts did in one of his books. Before trying to lecture me about ecms, may I suggest you a good reading that will help you grasp the concepts you are trying to teach? Hannen's book is a good introduction. Radar and Electronic Warfare Principles for the non specialist should help you a lot. Do not thank me, advice is free.
However,

Thx for trying to lecture me about concepts you obviously so hardly fight to grasp. Let me help you. Radar and Electronic Warfare Principles for the non specialist is the first book coming to my old mind. It should really help you.
I perfectly understand what David Pappalardo said in this institutional (irsem) podcast. And guess what? Active cancelation is a drfm based technique. As you seem to doubt his competences, you can find him on LinkedIn. There is no-one as blind as the one who does not want to see...

Sry about my post being cut in several parts, I have issues with the site on my phone.

 

[Innominate]

Is counting different in France cause my lil eyes see three tanks on your M.

Please dear help me out here how many tanks is it carrying because I'm confused.

 

[Innominate]

Also that 760nm is a specific mission range, not a ferry range that some think.

Yeah I'm using a specific mission for the F-35c as in fleet defender and Island defender in which it will have 820+ unrefueled combat radius in the air to air role fortunately that is not how USN/US fights since they will have USAF tankers at hand from Okinawa and other nearby bases giving F-35c and F-18Es huge loiter time.

This old combat radius map shows the old numbers but it also shows USN carrier strike group doesn't need to be close to chicom coast like the ween guy thinks.

Chinese targets deep inside their territory are well within F-35C range if necessary

 

[Optimist]

First, don't call me 'boy'. Second, what is doing F-35 A doing here? And no, it's combat range is not huge. Finally, Rafale M do not fly with 3 tanks. Ignorance as usual...

No Sweetman did not start the so called myth. Stephen Coonts did in one of its books, but nvm, ignorance is not a crime. Anyway, thank you for trying to lecture me about ecms, I know what is drfm.

Active stealth have a precise meaning. Thank you for trying to lecture me about ecms generally speaking and drfm based jamming techniques. Spamming words you obviously struggle to understand won't change anything. Pappalardo

Sweetman did not start a 'myth'. Stephen Coonts did in one of his books. Before trying to lecture me about ecms, may I suggest you a good reading that will help you grasp the concepts you are trying to teach? Hannen's book is a good introduction. Radar and Electronic Warfare Principles for the non specialist should help you a lot. Do not thank me, advice is free.
However,

Thx for trying to lecture me about concepts you obviously so hardly fight to grasp. Let me help you. Radar and Electronic Warfare Principles for the non specialist is the first book coming to my old mind. It should really help you.
I perfectly understand what David Pappalardo said in this institutional (irsem) podcast. And guess what? Active cancelation is a drfm based technique. As you seem to doubt his competences, you can find him on LinkedIn. There is no-one as blind as the one who does not want to see...

Sry about my post being cut in several parts, I have issues with the site on my phone.

The French experiment with AC with a cruise missile shape, against constant, single frequency search radar. Which they didn't get to work. You are talking 1980's tech. Now tell me about modern radars that are also interconnected.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1478531720983060481

 

[Hydra]

In fact Pic is posing a real issue. USN fighters (specially F35) are short legged, therefore the carriers must come too close to targets, hence the need for a tanker drone... Your answer is at best kiddush. China also have ballistic missiles.

Man the moment china uses df21,the nuclear threshold will be a history. US will be retaliate with nukes, thats how MAD works.

 

[Herciv]

The French experiment with AC with a cruise missile shape, against constant, single frequency search radar. Which they didn't get to work. You are talking 1980's tech. Now tell me about modern radars that are also interconnected.

Nice to see that you're well intruduced in the French DGA.
Or perhaps have you not understood the way you can make war with rafale.

 

[halloweene]

The French experiment with AC with a cruise missile shape, against constant, single frequency search radar. Which they didn't get to work. You are talking 1980's tech. Now tell me about modern radars that are also interconnected.

Interconnected radars also kill passive stealth which is based on defelction of incoming signals mostly (but not only, i agree). What do you know about french experiments? Ever heard for example of carbone pod? and that is years ago (nearly a decade).
Whohe, for the third time please stop calliing other people names. Thank you. Stay civil.

ween guy thinks.

 

[Innominate]

Interconnected radars also kill passive stealth which is based on defelction of incoming signals mostly (but not only, i agree). What do you know about french experiments? Ever heard for example of carbone pod? and that is years ago (nearly a decade).
Whohe, for the third time please stop calliing other people names. Thank you. Stay civil.

Nobody is calling you names stop acting/crying like such a victim.

Whaaa he hurt my feelings when he called me boy when he said poorboy to me.

Whaaa he called picoil darling hurting my feelings.

Whaaa he shortened my name to ween hurting my feelings.

See how you're starting to sound? I thought the french were tougher. Well at least picoil can give it just as much as he takes you on the other hand it feels like addressing you as Hey you would offend you and whaaa about it. I know what you're trying to do you're trying to get me banned some how so why don't you do what you really want to do and complain to the mods how much your poor feelings are getting hurt that way your french plane capabilities isn't challenged. We all know what it's really all about... It's me giving it to your plane hard and you not liking it.

When you say something as ridiculous and false as the F-35c being "short legged" I'm gonna feel sorry for you for believing such BS after all these years and say to you poorboy.

Btw is this about f16dotnet and you not allowed there? Just asking or does that offend you too?

 

[Innominate]

Btw halloweene didn't you say the M doesn't carry 3 tanks? Even calling me ignorant which hurts my feelings so how dare you not be civil! Nice deflection almost forgot that you totally ignored my retort to your false claim.

 

[Bon Plan]

against constant, single frequency search radar

poor guy..... You are one of the few that are seeing the french with a bottle of wine in a hand and a french baguette in the other.
Pityfull.

Btw halloweene didn't you say the M doesn't carry 3 tanks? Even calling me ignorant which hurts my feelings so how dare you not be civil! Nice deflection almost forgot that you totally ignored my retort to your false claim.

You can note that the Rafale on your picture is carrying 4 Meteor. A config not open so far. So it's a photoshop or a field test.
Yes, Rafale M can carry 3 external tanks, as any other rafale, but is it a Marine National config ?

 

[Herciv]

@Optimist In fact the DGA is not working for the army and the rafale is not the fighter it's a liner..
For the other here is the place where the frenche Stealth weapon are tested :

DGA-MI. À Rennes depuis 50 ans, les « geeks » de l’armée passeront de 1 400 à 2 000

La section de la Direction générale de l’armement installée à Bruz, près de Rennes, célébrait mercredi ses cinquante ans consacrés à la recherche dans les technologies militaires de pointe. Forte de 1 400 ingénieurs, elle devrait embaucher 600 de plus dans les sept prochaines années.

www.letelegramme.fr

Marché public : Etude, réalisation et installation de l'amélioration du système d'absorbants électromagnétiques de la base de mesures de SER SOLANGE - Bruz

Marché public ou privé : Procédure adaptée gt; à 90000 € HT Bruz Bretagne Ille-et-Vilaine Etude, réalisation et installation de l'amélioration du système d'absorbants électromagnétiques (EM) sur tout le spectre de mesures EM de la base SOLANGE.L'objectif du marché est de :- diminuer le niveau de...

centraledesmarches.com

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjBwKzygpr1AhWGyYUKHX4gCl4QFnoECCMQAQ&url=https://www.defense.gouv.fr/content/download/569800/9793300/EBook_stages_DGAMI_2022.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3irUKKkG9cDlOWQmC5qb3X (some are about RCS othetr about data fusion)
https://www.ouest-france.fr/bretagne/plongee-dans-lantre-du-secret-defense-bruz-2885012 : this one is very interresting. It's about about how deep the research are to be VLO in IR and also how we would be able to defeat ECM ... and also we are testing missile's threats

I also like this one when an engineer of the CELAR declare that he is working on active cancellation ... in 2004.

Près de Rennes, le Celar est au cœur des techniques militaires les plus modernes

Le Monde.fr - 1er site d’information sur l’actualité. Retrouvez ici une archive du 19 octobre 2004 sur le sujet Près de Rennes, le Celar est au cœur des techniques militaires les plus modernes

www.lemonde.fr

 

[Innominate]

You can note that the Rafale on your picture is carrying 4 Meteor. A config not open so far. So it's a photoshop or a field test.
Yes, Rafale M can carry 3 external tanks, as any other rafale, but is it a Marine National config ?

How about you just say you're wrong which halloweene is as he calls me ignorant.

 

[halloweene]

ween guy thinks.

Btw halloweene didn't you say the M doesn't carry 3 tanks? Even calling me ignorant which hurts my feelings so how dare you not be civil! Nice deflection almost forgot that you totally ignored my retort to your false claim.

It does, for ferrying or taking photos. It never does operationnaly . I dont deflect anthin, i'm not a retired petty officer from a corps

 

[Innominate]

It does, for ferrying or taking photos. It never does operationnaly . I dont deflect anthin, i'm not a retired petty officer from a corps

So then I guess the F-35c combat radius with its 20k lbs of internal fuel is vastly greater and not "short legged" than your plane and its two tanks, eh?

Hmm. Seems you walked into a trap of your own making, oui?

 

[AbRaj]

Lockheed Martin to design and develop F-35 variant ‘tailored' for foreign customer

Lockheed Martin has been contracted to design and develop a variant of its F-35 Lighting II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) geared towards the requirements of an unspecified...

www.janes.com

 

[AbRaj]

An F-35A stealth fighter made a belly landing in South Korea after the jet's gear malfunctioned

South Korean military officials told local media that the pilot walked away from the incident unharmed.

www.businessinsider.in

The stealth fighter crash-landed at 12:51 pm (local time) on the runway at an air force base in Seosan, an official told Yonhap News Agency.

Officials told Yonhap that unspecified issues with an avionics system caused the landing gear to malfunction, forcing the pilot to put the aircraft down with the landing gear up.

​

"Its landing gear should have been down, but it wasn't," a South Korean Air Force official told Stars and Stripes. "So, it made a belly landing."

This type of landing comes with a number of potential risks, not just to the aircraft but to the pilot as well, but in this case, the pilot "walked out from the plane," the official explained. Yonhap reported that the pilot made it through the incident "unscathed."

The South Korean Air Force has suspended F-35A flights as it investigates Tuesday's crash-landing alongside the US military and manufacturer Lockheed Martin.

A South Korean F-35 stealth fighter in Daegu, South Korea, October 1, 2019.Jeon Heon-kyun/Pool via REUTERS
There are three variants of the fifth-generation F-35. The A variant is specifically built for air force operations and is equipped with a 25 mm internal cannon. This variant, along with the short-takeoff/vertical landing B variant, has been sold to both the US military and international partners.
Tuesday's crash is believed to be a first for the South Korean fleet of F-35As, but it is not a first for the variant. In April 2019, for instance, a Japanese Air Self-Defense Force F-35A crashed into the Pacific Ocean, killing the Japanese pilot.
In May 2020, a US Air Force F-35A crashed as it came in for a landing at Eglin Air Force Base in Florida after a routine nighttime training flight. The next month, another US Air Force F-35A's landing gear collapsed as it was landing at Hill Air Force Base in Utah. The pilots were able to walk away after both of the incidents.

 

[halloweene]

So then I guess the F-35c combat radius with its 20k lbs of internal fuel is vastly greater and not "short legged" than your plane and its two tanks, eh?

Hmm. Seems you walked into a trap of your own making, oui?

That remains to be seen. (F-35 is vastly heavier than Rafale, do you have the numbers for both? I dont) . And we do not have the intention to go deter China. You are and your carriers will be in the range of chinese missiles.

 

[halloweene]

How about you just say you're wrong which halloweene is as he calls me ignorant.
View attachment 22436
View attachment 22437
View attachment 22438

Lol these are photos of Rafale on the Eisenhower. Definitely not an operational configuration.

 

[halloweene]

However, i'm former ADAE not MN. I can make mistakes. But i dont think it is an operational configuration, more a ferry/showcase one. Will ask to @chasseembarquée.