Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

WHOHE

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The F-35 Strengthens Its Role in Missile Defense​


-The Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II stealth fighter jet is well known for stealth, reconnaissance, precision attack, and high-speed computing. But what about missile defense? The idea might initially seem peripheral given the heavy space and land-launched interceptor dimensions to missile defense. Yet the military services are increasingly leveraging the F-35's long-range, high-fidelity sensing technology, computing, and networking capacity to support integrated air and missile defenses.

By developing the F-35 for missile defense, the Pentagon is expanding the mission envelope and operational functionality of the aircraft in less recognized areas that often linger beneath the radar, associated with budget, cost, and sustainment concerns.


The primary function is multi-domain, given that the F-35 has now on several occasions been successfully used in tests as an aerial “sensor node” or gateway system connecting air, ground, and maritime fire control and command and control nodes.

Last Summer, for instance, the F-35 was used to relay target information to a ground-based Patriot missile interceptor as part of an integrated, meshed network of sensor nodes architected to track and exchange threat data across otherwise disconnected nodes. The F-35 was used as an “elevated sensor” or an aerial node at White Sands Missile Range, New Mexico, to track and help destroy a surrogate cruise missile target. The event was part of the Army’s Integrated Battle Command System (IBCS) program. The Army’s fast-developing IBCS program, in development for several years, consists of a series of interconnected dispersed radar and sensor nodes across a wide area of operations. The concept is to not only network key ground defense and targeting nodes such as a Sentinel Radar with a Patriot missile system, but also expand to incorporate a multi-domain functionality. In this capacity, an F-35 can use its sensors as a multi-domain node to discover, track, and pass along target details to ground radar nodes from beyond the horizon.

This is exactly how the F-35 was used with the Patriot. The benefit is clear, in that faster, multi-domain networking and threat tracking information affords commanders more time and opportunity through which to perform time-sensitive command and control functions. Specifically, should a ground commander learn of an otherwise undetectable threat approaching from beyond the horizon due to an F-35, more effective decisions can be made regarding which interceptor to use or how best to respond or launch a counterattack. The speed of information flow and data processing can be the difference between success or failure in a mission.

An F-35's speed, data transmission rate, and sensor range place it in a position to be uniquely valuable to multi-domain missile defense operations. There are potential implications for closer-in air and cruise missile defense operations as well as a possibility to support ballistic missile defense as well.

Using an F-35 in this capacity is not necessarily new, as the Navy has been doing it for several years as well through its integrated ship-defense warfare network called Naval Integrated Fire Control—Counter Air (NIFC-CA). NIFC-CA, which has been deployed on Navy destroyers for several years now, connects ship-based fire control and radar systems with an aerial “gateway” node to detect approaching anti-ship missiles from beyond its radar horizon or “field of regard.”

The NIFC-CA program began by using the Navy’s well-known Hawkeye surveillance plane. However, during the course of the Navy’s development of NIFC-CA, an F-35 was used as the aerial gateway “node,” NIFC-CA involves some interesting multi-domain networking somewhat analogous to how the Army used the F-35 with the Patriot. The aerial sensor node finds a track from beyond the radar horizon of a surface ship, relays the data back to ship-based radar and fire control which then launches an SM-6 interceptor missile to track and destroy the approaching enemy anti-ship missile at much safer stand-off distances. Due to the use of an F-35 in this capacity, ship commanders can have a much longer and more substantial time window through which to determine an optimal tactical response to the attack.

MDP_Expanded_Battlespace_Figure2.png


Which is why people should never buy the hype about chicom anti-ship missile capability against a USN Carrier strike group. Too many layers to get through. F-18E is also NIFC-CA capable.
 

screambowl

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It's unclear which datalink the Rafale has been integrated with, either the older ODL or the new B-NET. I believe it's the ODL 'cause the Rafale contract was signed before the B-NET contract was. Would require an upgrade soon.

In case the F-35 comes to India, it will have to be integrated with the B-NET in order to network with our stuff.

The IN has the Link 16 integrated. So F-35s coming to the IN can continue with the Link 16, although it will still have to carry an Indian DL as well. It's unclear how receptive the IAF is to the Link 16, although their Reapers should come with it.

India was already testing the Bnet system in 2019. So by now most probably it's ready for installation in case they have selected it. But then Link16 and the Bnet system will be together on board or just any one of them? The console requires space too.

Bnet's100mbps is a very good speed. But one challenge, if Indian pilot are trained on TDL J series messages then wouldn't it take an extra load of training for the pilots to get integrated to other sort of communication to carry collaborative targeting?
 

A Person

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You did not understand the question
You did not ask it correctly, then. French forces use Link 16 in all situations where NATO forces would use Link 16, because surprise, despite what anglos like to believe, France is in NATO.

If you're talking about Link 16 equivalent on export versions of the Rafale, it depends on the customer. Greece and Croatia get Link 16 since they're in NATO too. Egypt, Qatar, and India get their own national standards. Finally, if you're talking about French-specific communication links, then there's satcom links, and the CONTACT radio (part of ESSOR) is getting rolled out. But this is all off-topic anyway as this is the LockMart WunderWaffen thread.
You did not understand the question
You did not ask it correctly, then. French forces use Link 16 in all situations where NATO forces would use Link 16, because surprise, despite what anglos like to believe, France is in NATO.

If you're talking about Link 16 equivalent on export versions of the Rafale, it depends on the customer. Greece and Croatia get Link 16 since they're in NATO too. Egypt, Qatar, and India get their own national standards. Finally, if you're talking about French-specific communication links, then there's satcom links, and the CONTACT radio (part of ESSOR) is getting rolled out. But this is all off-topic anyway as this is the LockMart WunderWaffen thread.
 
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screambowl

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Dec 19, 2017
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You did not ask it correctly, then. French forces use Link 16 in all situations where NATO forces would use Link 16, because surprise, despite what anglos like to believe, France is in NATO.

If you're talking about Link 16 equivalent on export versions of the Rafale, it depends on the customer. Greece and Croatia get Link 16 since they're in NATO too. Egypt, Qatar, and India get their own national standards. Finally, if you're talking about French-specific communication links, then there's satcom links, and the CONTACT radio (part of ESSOR) is getting rolled out. But this is all off-topic anyway as this is the LockMart WunderWaffen thread.

This is not off topic, I am trying to compare the different platforms of data link, especially in F35, Rafale and how data link can become a vurnebility in case the aircraft is subjected to high power radiation and open for DF analysis. And what protection F35's RAM coating can give with respect to Rafael's to the equipment on board.
Finally, if you're talking about French-specific communication links, then there's satcom links, and the CONTACT radio
This is what I was asking if France has anything developed for data link platform
 
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Bon Plan

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From the look of the video, engine indeed not punching enough power as speculated on mon removal of covers from the air flow intakes?
Such an error seems very unlikely.
Or one of this famous british drunk sailor....
If true, what a british navy skill loss. awfull.
 

A Person

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Such an error seems very unlikely.
Or one of this famous british drunk sailor....
If true, what a british navy skill loss. awfull.

No, unfortunately these things are a lot more likely than one would want. That's why there are checklists to force people to check what they would forget to do... but with a bit of complacency, the checks may not be thorough enough and you end up sending a £100 million jet in the sea.

I'd be harsher if this was caused by a design flaw of the aircraft, but here it seems quite clearly to be a purely human error. As long as such errors remain rare, it's not really indicative of anything. Just a statistical inevitability that there will be *censored*ups, and some *censored*ups will end up costing a lot of money. The pilot's safe, so at least this didn't kill anyone.


As for the Litening debate: it's originally Israeli, but NorGru joined in 1995 and has co-developed these pods since the Litening II. So it's now Israelo-American.
 
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randomradio

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India was already testing the Bnet system in 2019. So by now most probably it's ready for installation in case they have selected it. But then Link16 and the Bnet system will be together on board or just any one of them? The console requires space too.

BNET is used by the IAF, not the IN. The IAF has no need for Link 16 on fighter jets.

Bnet's100mbps is a very good speed. But one challenge, if Indian pilot are trained on TDL J series messages then wouldn't it take an extra load of training for the pilots to get integrated to other sort of communication to carry collaborative targeting?

Everything's gonna be automated. But yeah, the pilots are gonna need more training, which is why transition from advanced training to fighter training now requires a LIFT.
 
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randomradio

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LITENING I was developed for the Israeli air force at Rafael Corporation's Missiles Division in Haifa, Israel. In 1995 Northrop Grumman Corporation's teamed with the company for further development.