Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates

Saaho

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Dec 27, 2019
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During the recent riots in US , thousands of GUNS were sent to US by Chinese companies in the form of spare parts
Guns? To USA? To the country that has more guns than people? To the country which has a "Right to bear firearms"?
A common family in USA has enough firearms to equip entire ITBP and then some more. Besides, their guns and cartridges actually work unlike our OFB ones or Chinese guns.
 

Aurora

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May 18, 2020
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Do you think fighting China is only "For India"?
If so that is an assumption.

If US and the Quad militarily confronts China in coming days/months, is it "for India"? That is not necessarily true.
Exactly!!! Many members here have this confusion.
 

Saaho

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Exactly!!! Many members here have this confusion.
Well, people need to revisit world war 2. Soviet and Allies fought the same foes but it was not for the sake of their partners. USSR didn't fight for USA and USA didn't fight for USSR.

It was just the coincidence that they had the common enemy. Coincidence that Hitler shot himself in foot by attacking USSR while fighting USA and UK in Europe. Before this, there was a treaty of peace between USSR and Germany. As late as 1940 Stalin was trying to debunk that Nazis were going to attack USSR. It failed ofcourse and left him wiser.

China is also taking a similar path, though it is still not as violent as Nazi were back in the day. Chinese are pushing everywhere : Taiwan, Japan, India, USA (Guam).
 
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Aurora

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With our current industry standards, we will be forced to import a lot of stuff. We still need to go through another 3 years of R&D effort before almost everything we use can be replaced with Indian held IPR or manufacture foreign stuff within the country, more or less. So we are not there yet.
Everything which we would need to import is already being imported. Advancement in technology ensured that modern war will not be like WW2 where industrial capacity came into play during the war. Modern war will be sharp and intense. It won't give you time to import or even produce anything locally. All you could do is to stock everything in advance and then use it during the war optimally. That being said, the war will surely increase the demand of other materials, it will increase economic activity and also it will unite public for progress of country.
Well, people need to revisit world war 2. Soviet and Allies fought the same foes but it was not for the sake of their partners. USSR didn't fight for USA and USA didn't fight for USSR. It was just the coincidence that they had the common enemy.
This example also counters another prevalent narrative here that we need to be in an alliance with USA for an united attack against China.
 

Saaho

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This example also counters another prevalent narrative here that we need to be in an alliance with USA for an united attack against China.
Well, Unlike Nazi Germany, China is more permanent fixture of our neighbourhood. So, it may make sense to enter alliance against them. It will make things easier for us and will be a deterrent in itself.
 

Aurora

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May 18, 2020
382
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India
Well, Unlike Nazi Germany, China is more permanent fixture of our neighbourhood. So, it may make sense to enter alliance against them. It will make things easier for us and will be a deterrent in itself.
Entering into an alliance would mean giving away our strategic autonomy. We can't do that. At best we could have a mechanism for ensuring a coordinated attack against China .
 

Sulla84

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May 31, 2019
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India
Do you think fighting China is only "For India"?
If so that is an assumption.

If US and the Quad militarily confronts China in coming days/months, is it "for India"? That is not necessarily true.
The QUAD has not taken a concrete military shape yet.. So, if there is a war now.. Material and intelligence support is all that the US will provide India.. And thats a good bargain for the level of alignment India is ready to display with the US.
Before outsourcing our foreign policy to US, by entering into a formal alliance with them, lets have a war with China, to check whether China really is strong enough, that it warrants India to change its entire foreign policy outlook..
 
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Saaho

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Entering into an alliance would mean giving away our strategic autonomy. We can't do that. At best we could have a mechanism for ensuring a coordinated attack against China .
We neither have nor deserve any autonomy. We are incapable of defending ourselves so the point of autonomy is moot.
The QUAD has not taken a concrete military shape yet.. So, if there is a war now.. Material and intelligence support is all that the US will provide India.. And thats a good bargain for the level of alignment India is ready to display with the US.
Before outsourcing our foreign policy to US, by entering into a formal alliance with them, lets have a war with China, to check whether China really is strong enough, that it warrants India to change its entire foreign policy outlook..
Sorry, that cann't happen. India's weakness is not just in material and capital. It is also in complete inability and unwillingness of the leadership to defend India. India need alliance because India does not want to defend herself. Its that simple. Hence, India cann't fight any war. Without will, there is no war, only defeat.
 
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Sulla84

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May 31, 2019
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India's weakness is not just in material and capital. It is also in complete inability and unwillingness of the leadership to defend India. India need alliance because India does not want to defend herself. Its that simple. Hence, India cann't fight any war. Without will, there is no war, only defeat.
If this is the case.. then, why would the US ally with India, what would it gain by allying with a bunch of sis**s who refuse to fight ? Why should protecting Indian land mean more to the americans, than it means to Indians ? Trump is not an aberration, the days of free riding US allies is over, even if the democrats win the presidency..
 

Saaho

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If this is the case.. then, why would the US ally with India, what would it gain by allying with a bunch of sis**s who refuse to fight ? Why should protecting Indian land mean more to the americans, than it means to Indians ? Trump is not an aberration, the days of free riding US allies is over, even if the democrats win the presidency..
"Sissy bitches" follow orders easily. The problem is that Indian army is "sissy bitches". Problem is that Indian leadership trios do not want to fight at all on their own even if the opponent is a flock of pigeons. If you include Americans in equation, things change.

Where did I said countering China is purely "protecting Indian land"? It is that "countering China" and "preventing spread of Chinese influence". USA did similar things during last cold war.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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Everything which we would need to import is already being imported. Advancement in technology ensured that modern war will not be like WW2 where industrial capacity came into play during the war. Modern war will be sharp and intense. It won't give you time to import or even produce anything locally. All you could do is to stock everything in advance and then use it during the war optimally. That being said, the war will surely increase the demand of other materials, it will increase economic activity and also it will unite public for progress of country.

Not really. There is still room for a long war if the belligerents are in equal strength. Things change only when unequal strength is applied, like the Russian interference in the Syrian War.

A Sino-India war can easily go on for a long time.

In case the Chinese are stopped at the border, they may try to outlast India through the consumption of men and material. The Chinese can keep it going indefinitely. So this can even go on for years.

I mean, why will the Chinese want to stop if they fail? The loss of face will be severe. They will instead want to keep it going until the Chinese public gets tired and will want the war to end. The only real way that's in our control to prevent such a situation is to create offensive units of our own, which will force the Chinese to rethink their next move after their initial failure. Hence the need for two MSCs of our own.
 
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Star Wars

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Dec 1, 2017
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Looks like people have too much time on thier hands during COVID and posting what ever bullshit that comes into thier mind.

If there is nothing to talk about, best to lock the thread and stay silent until there is an actual update.
 
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Saaho

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Looks like people have too much time on thier hands during COVID and posting what ever bullshit that comes into thier mind.

If there is nothing to talk about, best to lock the thread and stay silent until there is an actual update.
What do you expect in absence of any official communication from the government except for the statements which proved to be wrong.
 

randomradio

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Nov 30, 2017
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If this is the case.. then, why would the US ally with India, what would it gain by allying with a bunch of sis**s who refuse to fight ? Why should protecting Indian land mean more to the americans, than it means to Indians ? Trump is not an aberration, the days of free riding US allies is over, even if the democrats win the presidency..

In case we go to war with China, and it lasts a long time, what we need from the US (and Japan and other allies) is diplomatic support, intelligence, material aid/logistics support, financial aid and large scale investments. Nothing else.

Diplomatic and intelligence goes without saying. Material aid and logistics support are needed to alleviate stress from our own industry in order to counter accidents, delays etc. Financial aid is needed in order to support our forex, which will be needed to import equipment, without stressing out our regular forex income. Large scale investments are needed to counter the diversion of domestic investment towards the war effort in order to keep our economy going.

With the exception of diplomatic and intelligence support, the need for which is perpetual even for the strongest countries, we need support in the areas I mentioned until we become as rich as China is today.

Material aid/logistics support and financial aid comes at a cost to the US and allies, but investment is for mutual benefit. But if you consider we are fighting China, it would mean other countries are less stressed elsewhere, so paying us for the effort in order to keep it going is also in their favour.

We most definitely do not need American troops on our soil, never mind the fact that they won't send any in the first place.
 
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Saaho

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In case we go to war with China, and it lasts a long time, what we need from the US (and Japan and other allies) is diplomatic support, intelligence, material aid/logistics support, financial aid and large scale investments. Nothing else.
For this condition to happen, you will first need leadership which can commit to it and not run away crying and surrender entire north india to China. Meaning, we cann't do that on our own. We don't have such leadership.

Its wrong to assume that Indian leaders have will to fight a necessary war at all. All the evidence is to the contrary. Heck, they are not even ready to call out the opponent by name.
 

randomradio

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2017
14,554
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India
For this condition to happen, you will first need leadership which can commit to it and not run away crying and surrender entire north india to China. Meaning, we cann't do that on our own. We don't have such leadership.

Its wrong to assume that Indian leaders have will to fight a necessary war at all. All the evidence is to the contrary. Heck, they are not even ready to call out the opponent by name.

Name all the countries that have banned Chinese apps and Chinese businesses from entering the economy?
 
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Paro

Bloom17
Dec 2, 2017
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In case we go to war with China, and it lasts a long time, what we need from the US (and Japan and other allies) is diplomatic support, intelligence, material aid/logistics support, financial aid and large scale investments. Nothing else.

Diplomatic and intelligence goes without saying. Material aid and logistics support are needed to alleviate stress from our own industry in order to counter accidents, delays etc. Financial aid is needed in order to support our forex, which will be needed to import equipment, without stressing out our regular forex income. Large scale investments are needed to counter the diversion of domestic investment towards the war effort in order to keep our economy going.

With the exception of diplomatic and intelligence support, the need for which is perpetual even for the strongest countries, we need support in the areas I mentioned until we become as rich as China is today.

Material aid/logistics support and financial aid comes at a cost to the US and allies, but investment is for mutual benefit. But if you consider we are fighting China, it would mean other countries are less stressed elsewhere, so paying us for the effort in order to keep it going is also in their favour.

We most definitely do not need American troops on our soil, never mind the fact that they won't send any in the first place.
You think our defense budget will increase in the coming years? The way things are bjp might spend what ever it can get its hands on the economy than defense.